Brian Eno Hates John Williams

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

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[Incanus 5,713]

So, will this make 6 pages? More?

I think it will go on for 5 pages and then migrate into a new thread called JWFan Hates Brian Eno.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

New thread? Why not a new subforum?

[filmmusic 1,822]

First time I hear about Brian Eno.

I confused him at first with Bryan Ferry ( ), but no, I don't know him...

Can anyone who knows him point out the highlight of his music, his "Jaws" or "Star Wars" sort of speak, to listen to it?

edit: oh, it seems he wrote that music I like from that documentary:

[A24 4,325]

I can't say anything about Eno when I have nothing to say as I don't know his work or either hate it or like it. Perhaps I will take a short course in Eno through the Youtube clips posted in this thread.

It's Ambient. He's really more known for his work as a producer (Talking Heads, Roxy Music, Ultravox, Paul Simon, David Bowie, Coldplay (yuck), U2, Devo, ...)

[Incanus 5,713]

New thread? Why not a new subforum?

A new subforum?!!! Hom-hoom! Let us not be hasty! Nothing good even came from being hasty!

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

First time I hear about Brian Eno.

I confused him at first with Bryan Ferry ( ), but no, I don't know him...

Qui?

[A24 4,325]

He co-founded Roxy Music with Bryan Ferry.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

First time I hear about Brian Eno.

I confused him at first with Bryan Ferry ( ), but no, I don't know him...

Can anyone who knows him point out thehighlight of his music, his "Jaws" or "Star Wars" sort of speak, to listen to it?

edit: oh, it seems he wrote that music I like from that documentary:

Yes, Apollo is a wonderful album. Great on vinyl.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

So, will this make 6 pages? More?

6 pages and a movie.

[A24 4,325]

Wasn't that airy theme used in Refn's Drive?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

 

First time I hear about Brian Eno.

I confused him at first with Bryan Ferry ( ), but no, I don't know him...

Qui?

 

Bryan Ferry was the lead singer/songwriter of the great UK band Roxy Music. Eno was their keyboard player.

 

 

 

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

Wasn't that airy theme used in Refn's Drive?

It was used in Trainspotting and countless 9/11 documentaries. It's achingly beautiful, and frightening.

Edit: it wasn't used in Trainspotting, I'm confusing it with a different Eno track.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I know who Ferry is, I was just being silly.

[A24 4,325]

That airy theme is making him rich.

[publicist 4,643]

Like Michael Nyman, who's also prone to ignorant sweeping statements that wilfully ignore the whole picture, Eno seems to suggest that he's got better ideas of how to score STAR WAR's and INDIANA JONES movies, which is of course total rubbish.

[pete 902]

Like Michael Nyman, who's also prone to ignorant sweeping statements that wilfully ignore the whole picture, Eno seems to suggest that he's got better ideas of how to score STAR WAR's and INDIANA JONES movies, which is of course total rubbish.

Speaking of Nyman, the New York Times really did a number last week on the subject of Michael's 6th Symphony^

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/world/asia/in-ferry-deaths-a-south-korean-tycoons-downfall.html?_r=0

[filmmusic 1,822]

Like Michael Nyman, who's also prone to ignorant sweeping statements that wilfully ignore the whole picture, Eno seems to suggest that he's got better ideas of how to score STAR WAR's and INDIANA JONES movies, which is of course total rubbish.

I don't think he said anything specific about those films.

maybe he meant others.. (eg. Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan etc.)

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

He says Williams music has ruined many films. I wonder what those films would sound with his music...

[publicist 4,643]

Like Michael Nyman, who's also prone to ignorant sweeping statements that wilfully ignore the whole picture, Eno seems to suggest that he's got better ideas of how to score STAR WAR's and INDIANA JONES movies, which is of course total rubbish.

I don't think he said anything specific about those films.

maybe he meant others.. (eg. Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan etc.)

Given the audience he's talking to, it's pretty much a given he talks about Williams' blockbuster scores. Neither SL nor SPR have a big notority for their obvious uses of music - or for that matter, THE LONG GOODBYE, ACCIDENTAL TOURIST or CONRACK. That's why i said 'sweeping statement'.

[Hlao-roo 389]

So are we trying to argue that Williams's music hasn't "ruined many a good film"?

[nightscape94 965]

I respect Eno as a producer of rock/pop albums. While Eno's opinion on Orchestral music isn't automatically invalid for that reason alone, I feel his statement about Williams is baseless and empty considering he didn't bother expound upon it.

The samples posted here for his own music do not give me any indication that he's supremely talented in that arena. He sounds about as able as 95% of the human population with creating music, but it's that narrow sliver that Williams belongs to.

What it seems to boil down to is that Eno simply doesn't like Williams style in the same way people hate any other type of music that isn't appealing to them. There's no backbone to Eno's comments.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Haunting.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Judas! Judas!

[publicist 4,643]

So are we trying to argue that Williams's music hasn't "ruined many a good film"?

I could try my hand at another long review of the SCHINDLER'S LIST score.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

WAR HORSE is a score that harmed the film, IMO. It's Vaughn Williams minus all the edge and darkness. Which is strange, considering it's WWI.

[karelm 2,901]

Hmm, wow - JW is the antichrist according to Eno. Like you, GreyPilgrim, I like both but I think Eno is commenting more on the syruppy style of JW with formal traditional structure. "8 bar A theme, repeat, 8 bar B theme, bridge back to bigger version of A theme" kind of stuff whereas he goes towards more of a "feel" for what he wants the material to do. I wouldn't say its a formula but that might be how Eno is approaching it. I never thought of Eno as a composer but rather a sound designer. His product is all texture though very interesting and atmospheric textures. Two very different things but both good.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Yes I agree. I'm sure most people are overlooking the philosophical reasons for the statement in favor of a kneejerk reaction of outrage.

Like the fact that he says "MY antichrist" and not "THE antichrist". It's about a fundamental clash of musical philosophy and approach, not petty trash talking. Still think it was unclassy.

[Bespin 8,472]

Honestly I don't know this guy. Wait... a quick search in Google... "He became conceited and without any talent".

Ok I see

[publicist 4,643]

There's a film reviewer who goes into blind rage whenever the credit 'music by James Horner' comes up (this honor was reserved for Maurice Jarre in the past). Who knows. Sounds more like sour grapes to me, Eno just can't stand all the overexposure of the STAR WARS main title or the operatic denouement sequence of E. T. He sure must hate a lot of movies.

Though there's an interesting tie-in with our recent discussion on Williams' darkness: if i would have to name what bugs me about JW's FILM scores (apart from the soundtracks as pure music) it's his often rather illustrative application of music that fits the surface of the scene but seldom goes for psychological deepness.

Case in point: in the recent EOTS thread people went raving over a - in filmic context - rather shallow piece called BRINGING THEM BACK. It's all choral god-and-wonder music but apart from an harmonically more advanced bookend it really only illustrates this point in the film, without deepening our understanding of the main character Jim's physical state or how his insane rant is actually him losing his sanity. It really bugs me in the movie and is indeed the kind of film music that seems to push all the wrong buttons (imho). Of course, it's the one piece most people wanted badly.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

When it comes 'texture' records out there, Talk Talk's last two albums (The Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock) and Scott Walker's later stuff are much more up my street than Eno's compositions. Radiohead ripped them off big time.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

There's a film reviewer who goes into blind rage whenever the credit 'music by James Horner' comes up (this honor was reserved for Maurice Jarre in the past). Who knows. Sounds more like sour grapes to me, Eno just can't stand all the overexposure of the STAR WARS main title or the operatic denouement sequence of E. T. He sure must hate a lot of movies.

Though there's an interesting tie-in with our recent discussion on Williams' darkness: if i would have to name what bugs me about JW's FILM scores (apart from the soundtracks as pure music) it's his often rather illustrative application of music that fits the surface of the scene but seldom goes for psychological deepness.

Case in point: in the recent EOTS thread people went raving over a - in filmic context - rather shallow piece called BRINGING THEM BACK. It's all choral god-and-wonder music but apart from an harmonically more advanced bookend it really only illustrates this point in the film, without deepening our understanding of the main character Jim's physical state or how his insane rant is actually him losing his sanity. It really bugs me in the movie and is indeed the kind of film music that seems to push all the wrong buttons (imho). Of course, it's the one piece most people wanted badly.

This is what I've said a few times now. Careful, they'll have your head!

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

.

[Incanus 5,713]

There's a film reviewer who goes into blind rage whenever the credit 'music by James Horner' comes up (this honor was reserved for Maurice Jarre in the past). Who knows. Sounds more like sour grapes to me, Eno just can't stand all the overexposure of the STAR WARS main title or the operatic denouement sequence of E. T. He sure must hate a lot of movies.

Though there's an interesting tie-in with our recent discussion on Williams' darkness: if i would have to name what bugs me about JW's FILM scores (apart from the soundtracks as pure music) it's his often rather illustrative application of music that fits the surface of the scene but seldom goes for psychological deepness.

Case in point: in the recent EOTS thread people went raving over a - in filmic context - rather shallow piece called BRINGING THEM BACK. It's all choral god-and-wonder music but apart from an harmonically more advanced bookend it really only illustrates this point in the film, without deepening our understanding of the main character Jim's physical state or how his insane rant is actually him losing his sanity. It really bugs me in the movie and is indeed the kind of film music that seems to push all the wrong buttons (imho). Of course, it's the one piece most people wanted badly.

This is what I've said a few times now. Careful, they'll have your head!

To me the Bring Them Back music works exactly the opposite way. It really becomes the dissonance which really illustrates the mindset of the character, which is completely divorced from reality, and contrasts really effectively with the images. The delusion is in the music, Jim's desperate need to believe he can bring back the meaningful people, these anchors of reality and stability back to life. But in the end Jim has to face the reality and finality of the moment which the child's fantasy can't reverse no matter how hard he believes in it. The scene is poignant and ghastly at the same time because of the music. The pure child's faith soaring and then crushed slowly against the harsh reality.

Oh I am sorry, this has nothing to do with Eno. Carry on!

[tedfud 38]

i think the term is "dog whistle politics"

I am a big fan of a lot of eno's music but without doubt the worse thing I ever read was his diary " a year of swollen appendices "...utter pretentious drivel with steaming heaps of name droppings ! ". He is sort of , the Andy Warhol of pop. Has definitely worked on a lot of great records. But a lot of the Time actively pulls focus from those who in my opinion contribute even more.

t

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Not to poop on the parade here, but how can you proclaim to be a Brian Eno fan if you don't know he detests classical music? It's part of his entire image.

That he doesn't like John Williams is a no-brainer with Eno.

P.S. I think he has valid reasons for why he chooses to dislike classical/orchestral music. I disagree with them, but they are such fundamental arguments that it's not even worth debating. Nor does it mean that his music is any less stellar.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

An Eno-brainer.

[Quintus 5,399]

One things for sure, he's no Eno Morricone!

/coat

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Not to poop on the parade here, but how can you proclaim to be a Brian Eno fan if you don't know he detests classical music? It's part of his entire image.

That he doesn't like John Williams is a no-brainer with Eno.

P.S. I think he has valid reasons for why he chooses to dislike classical/orchestral music. I disagree with them, but they are such fundamental arguments that it's not even worth debating. Nor does it mean that his music is any less stellar.

While I agree that it's pretty reasonable to assume his opinion on "classical" music is low, could you point me to some specific instances of him saying as much?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

P.S. This is a cool interview with two really innovative men in the world of music, John Cage and Eno.

http://www.eno-web.co.uk/interviews/musicn85.html

All art needs more of these kinds of guys. And more John Williams too. A nice mix of both tradition and innovation.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But what is art? You have yet to give your definition.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

When it comes 'texture' records out there, Talk Talk's last two albums (The Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock) and Scott Walker's later stuff are much more up my street than Eno's compositions. Radiohead ripped them off big time.

I've honestly not really followed him as a composer for many years now, ever since he started to more and more embrace the "multidisciplinary" thing, which I'd like to eventually become more aware of, but it hasn't happened yet.

The Ambient series, Fripp & Eno, Apollo, Discreet Music, Textures, etc. That's what tickles my fancy. Lately I just enjoy hearing what he has to say about things. He oscillates, annoyingly, between humorously insightful and slyly pompous.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The Ambient series, Fripp & Eno, Apollo, Discreet Music, Textures, etc.

That's what I meant with compositions. I like the Fripp & Eno record, but mainly because Robert Fripp is an incredible guitarist and always holds my interest as a listener. Otherwise I find his harmonic pallet a bit limited and bloodless. I prefer richer, more complex chords.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Not to poop on the parade here, but how can you proclaim to be a Brian Eno fan if you don't know he detests classical music? It's part of his entire image.

That he doesn't like John Williams is a no-brainer with Eno.

P.S. I think he has valid reasons for why he chooses to dislike classical/orchestral music. I disagree with them, but they are such fundamental arguments that it's not even worth debating. Nor does it mean that his music is any less stellar.

While I agree that it's pretty reasonable to assume his opinion on "classical" music is low, could you point me to some specific instances of him saying as much?

First thing that came up on Google, but I'm sure there's more:

It's back to the biggest problem with classical music, which is [that] it's head music. It doesn't emanate from anything below the shoulders, basically.

http://pitchfork.com/features/interviews/7875-brian-eno/

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[tedfud 38]

Not to poop on the parade here, but how can you proclaim to be a Brian Eno fan if you don't know he detests classical music? It's part of his entire image.

That he doesn't like John Williams is a no-brainer with Eno.

P.S. I think he has valid reasons for why he chooses to dislike classical/orchestral music. I disagree with them, but they are such fundamental arguments that it's not even worth debating. Nor does it mean that his music is any less stellar.

i never said he liked classical music...you appear confused !

t

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

But what is art? You have yet to give your definition.

A complex, fluid category whose members attain membership upon being recognized as belonging to that category.

[Incanus 5,713]

But what is art? You have yet to give your definition.

A complex, fluid category whose members attain membership upon being recognized as belonging to that category.

Excellently vague yet sharp Blume.

[tedfud 38]

It's back to the biggest problem with classical music, which is [that] it's head music. It doesn't emanate from anything below the shoulders, basically.

What is Eno trying to say? That you should write music with your dick?

well one lengthy entry in his odious tome , describes the delights of swimming naked with an erection !

t

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

That is fun though.

Try it.

Now go swimming.