The MCU - Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Arpy 4,145]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

 

It's TV for young teens but that might be exactly the reason why some folks are thoroughly entertained by it. 

Agents of Shield - yes.

 

Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Luke Cage and Punisher? Hell no. They're more mature and feature more mature content than the films!

[A24 4,326]

All of them, Arpy. Just because TV heroes have doubts and burdens doesn't mean it's TV made for an adult and mature audience. That's just a sign of the times and perfectly in line with contemporary TV-making. Their personal problems, the way the dialog is written, it's still handled in an immature fashion. And its violence and sex would have fooled me into believing that I'm watching a show not meant for kids. As a young teen (10-15) I would have loved the Marvel shows, just like my kid did. We watched them together. I would never have watched them otherwise. 

[Arpy 4,145]

Going to have to disagree with you and say you're flat-out wrong, @AC1. Can you elaborate on what you mean by the shows being written in an 'immature' fashion?

What's immature is lumping the shows together as if they're one homogeneous thing when each of them varies in tone and drama. Agents of Shield is nothing like the Netflix shows, it's more akin to the DC counterparts of the Arrowverse.

 

 

 

[A24 4,326]

 

9 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Going to have to disagree with you and say you're flat-out wrong, @AC1. Can you elaborate on what you mean by the shows being written in an 'immature' fashion?

 

 

It just shows that the public is being kept 'young' by Hollywood. You don't realize that you're watching teen stuff.

[Arpy 4,145]

That response constitutes an argument? What are you even saying? 

 

I'm going out on a limb by thinking you haven't watched any of these shows, but for the sake of contrarianism you're throwing them out the window because you don't like the look of them.

[A24 4,326]

22 minutes ago, Arpy said:

That response constitutes an argument? What are you even saying? 

 

If you don't understand that the way these Marvel superhero shows are written isn't meant for a mature and adult audience then it only confirms what I think of Hollywood. While TV is targeting an older audience these days (especially since HBO), Hollywood (movies) is still keeping them young, as they have been doing for decades. Of course, Marvel movies are no exception. As I told you, my son loved the Marvel TV shows during his teenage years and we watched them. All of them! That's why I know. 

 

Luke Cage - everything! (my son's favorite Marvel show)

Daredevil - everything!

Jessica Jones  - everything!

Iron Fist - everything! (my son's least favorite)

and the show where they unite their forces to fight The Hand - forgot the name of the show

[Jay 37,287]

The makers of the Marvel Netflix shows weren't creating their content with teenagers in mind.  They were making those shows for adult fans who grew up with the comic books and wanted to see their childhood heroes on the telly, but in a mature show aimed at adults.  Of course many teenagers watched and liked it as well, but the showmakers didn't alter their plans and start adding in content that would draw in more teenage viewers or anything

[A24 4,326]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

They were making those shows for adult fans who grew up with the comic books and wanted to see their childhood heroes on the telly, but in a mature show aimed at adults.  

 

Childhood heroes but then for an adult audience? 

 

And maybe a teen might like it too? Please ...

[Jay 37,287]

Yes

[A24 4,326]

Well, I can easily imagine teenage girls wanting to be Jessica Jones but I can't imagine Chris Nolan or Woody Allen dreaming of being Iron Fist or Luke Cage (unless they were teens themselves). I wouldn't know what a mature and experienced film or TV audience is hoping to take away from these shows. It feels like it's written by 20-year-olds that have had very little life experience. Every thought and feeling is crudely telegraphed and needlessly explained in a way that you would to a young audience. I don't care what the show makers say. I can only base my feelings on the result. 

[Jay 37,287]

I was never trying to claim that everyone read comics in their childhood, not sure how you inferred that

[mstrox 6,647]

In the Netflix shows, the violence is much more intense/less cartoonish, the language is much more adult, and the subject matter is much more mature.  To indicate that they are aimed at young teens is being purposefully obtuse, I think.  You may be making the Scorsese argument that comic book movies generally are not "adult."  But adulthood starts in the late teens, buddy.  These people watch Family Guy and Fast and the Furious movies, not Woodsy Allen.  Maybe you just think it's made for mushy-brained adults.

[Jay 37,287]

Yea I never said the writers did a good job at making a show for adults, and I never said teenagers weren't drawn to it or didn't like it anyway, but it's obvious what the writers were attempting to do.

[Arpy 4,145]

I don't remember anyone getting fingered by Carrie-Anne Moss in the marvel films, @AC1 or was that for kids too?

 

[Jay 37,287]

Alex is like Quint, they always stand by their original point instead of ever admitting they got something wrong

[A24 4,326]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I was never trying to claim that everyone read comics in their childhood, not sure how you inferred that

 

I did read comic books in my childhood but it's something you grow out of during adolescence. Perhaps it's different in America? In any case, these Marvel shows go around the world and nobody except Americans are familiar with Luke Cage & Co. You don't need to have read the comics to enjoy them, you only need to be a teen. Again, during my childhood, we had very similar shows about people with special powers. The whole school loved it. The only ones who weren't watching were the parents. 

[Jay 37,287]

Again, I never said that everyone read comics in their childhoods, not sure why you are responding again to a point I never made

[A24 4,326]

You said they were made for those who grew up with the comics and (and thereby excluding younger folk and those who haven't read the comics):

 

2 hours ago, Jay said:

 They were making those shows for adult fans who grew up with the comic books and wanted to see their childhood heroes on the telly, but in a mature show aimed at adults.  

 

See?

[Jay 37,287]

I don't understand what you are getting at.  Yes, I know what I said, and yes, many different groups of people watched the show, some who read the comics, and some who did not.  What is your point?  You are not being clear, I'm sorry.

[mstrox 6,647]

I've never read comics for most of the Marvel superheroes.  DC was my bag back in my comics reading days (which didn't even start until my 20s).

[bruce marshall 1,315]

7 hours ago, AC1 said:

 

 

It just shows that the public is being kept 'young' by Hollywood. You don't realize that you're watching teen stuff.

 

 

 

 

As you can see from this HISTORICAL document, THE AVENGERS had only six members in their original configurations.

The films are. filled with ' factual inaccuracies'. 😎

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Revised AVENGERS

 

 

 

[Edmilson 7,392]

Most adult animation TV shows and movies (i.e. Sausage Party) are actually designed for teenagers, thanks to the endless dick jokes and sexual innuendos.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Companies target wide ranges of demographics. I highly doubt anything is every geared solely to teenagers, outside of young adult stuff like Twilight. 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

[A24 4,326]

It took them decades, but through oversimplification and by dumbing down the viewer from birth solely with mindless entertainment, the big entertainment industry has created an audience that is no longer adult and mature. If every demographic has the emotional and cultural level of a youngster, then you can treat the majority of the audience as one and the same: One movie for one huge demographic (everyone). This is much worse in the US but since the US is the largest producer of content it has spread to other regions of the world as well. This has been the success of HBO, they saw the gap in the market, and they started making shows that would appeal to a forgotten and neglected audience. Those who didn't go to the theatre because of what it has become (of what it became?).

[Arpy 4,145]

Another generalisation with no basis in fact or reality.

[A24 4,326]

You're the living proof, Arpy.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Tv has definitely become the prime provider of serious drama.

But, the claim that Hollywood once produced films for mature adults is overstated.

Not until the production code fell did this even remotely become true.

A better analogy is that HBO has become what legit theatre ( and maybe even literature) once were: a platform for writers and actors to make adult drama

 

 

Btw I think the success of films like JOKER show that there is a film going audience of discretion

[A24 4,326]

38 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

 

But, the claim that Hollywood once produced films for mature adults is wildly overstated.

 

 

Really? Just look the theatrical releases between 1965 and 1975 and compare it with today. 

 

38 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Btw I think the success of films like JOKER show that there is a film going audience of discretion

 

Joker is conceived as a '70s Scorsese movie (Taxi Driver) and is thereby a homage to movies with strong social and political commentaries of that era. That is its unique angle of approach and why it's different from Marvel, MOS and Wonder Women. However, it's hardly representative of the popular movie today. It certainly doesn't mean we're still in the last golden age of Hollywood.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Trash made for antifa nutjobs.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

 

Really? Just look the theatrical releases between 1965 and 1975 and compare it with today. *

 

 

You mean like LOVE STORY, the Irwin Allen disaster junk, the endless parade of nihilistic, pessimistic, crime dramas in the wake of FRENCH CONNECTION; the innumerable gangster blood baths trying to exploit the success of GODFATHER.

The nostalgia wave ( GREAT GATSBY et. al) post - EASY RIDER hippie flicks like THE LAST MOVIE.?

Cinema was dying in the 70s. Coppola, Lucas, Spielberg , Milius,

saved it! Not, Altman and Scorcese.

 

The REAL ' Golden Age' as 1973 ( AMERICAN GRAFITTI) thru 1982 ( E.T THE Extraterrestrial).

 

 

 

 

 

 

*The era you mentioned coincides with the end of censorship.

You agree with me, dummy!😉

[A24 4,326]

35 minutes ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said:

Trash made for antifa nutjobs.

 

See! One movie dares to make a nod to the last golden age of Hollywood and already the masses are wildly protesting! No need to panic, Drax, your blue pill (Wonder Woman II) is on its way.

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Phwoar farrk

[Arpy 4,145]

2 hours ago, AC1 said:

Joker is conceived as a '70s Scorsese movie (Taxi Driver) and is thereby a homage to movies with strong social and political commentaries of that era. That is its unique angle of approach and why it's different from Marvel, MOS and Wonder Women. However, it's hardly representative of the popular movie today. It certainly doesn't mean we're still in the last golden age of Hollywood.

This is where we could agree. 

[A24 4,326]

 

Quote

Cinema was dying in the 70s.

 

Nonsense! It was artistically thriving and saw the birth of the American New Wave (mid '60s to early '80s).  Only a fan of the blockbuster format would say that film was dead in the '70s. And yes, it didn't take long for you to refer to Star Wars and E.T.  as the saviours of film. A typical '80s point of view when cinema stood for the endless search for the ultimate blockbuster. A search that still dominates today's cinema. 

 

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

ID4 was the biggest blockbuster of my childhood.

[Chen G. 3,943]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

Nonsense! It was artistically thriving and saw the birth of the American New Wave (mid '60s to early '80s).  Only a fan of the blockbuster format would say that film was dead in the '70s. And yes, it didn't take long for you to refer to Star Wars and E.T.  as the saviours of film. A typical '80s point of view when cinema stood for the endless search for the ultimate blockbuster. A search that still dominates today's cinema. 

Kinda of weird that we call it the American NEW wave, when it only began in earnest circa 1969 and was already dying out with the release of Jaws in 1975.

 

I love some of the films that came out of that period (Taxi Driver!) and some “hybrid” films (The Godfather is a “Golden Age” Hollywood film about a “New Hollywood” subject) but on the whole I’m definitely leaning more towards blockbusters. Although I do prefer blockbusters that go closer to the grittiness of a “New Hollywood” movie over some of the more sugary fare (e.g. MCU). You get the best of both worlds!

[A24 4,326]

32 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

... on the whole I’m definitely leaning more towards blockbusters.

 

While I'm a supporter of the social drama of the last golden age (which of course has much more to do with filmmakers experimenting with new ways of expression and storytelling by going against age-old rules), I'm leaning very much towards art movies that are disguised as blockbusters, but those are very rare. Plain escapism was never my thing. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

17 minutes ago, AC1 said:

Plain escapism was never my thing. 

 

Nor mine. But I don't view this as anything to do with "art movies". Instead, to me it depends on the tone and content of the films: it just needs to be adequately solemn and gritty.

 

In Gladiator, for instance, the hero loses his family to a horrendous death, witnesses their charred remains, is enslaved and finally dies himself. Its a blockbuster with all the trappings - spectacle and action setpieces to elicit excitement, relativelly straightforward characterizations - but you'd never call it escapist.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It helped me escape to Ancient Rome.

[Chen G. 3,943]

But its not a picture post-card of ancient Rome. It features all the worse brutality of real life head-on, instead of circumnavigating it like an escapist film would.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Seemed alright. Go see a show, have some fun.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Are people extrapolating and assessing moral and political worldviews out of what movies other people like again???  You've been warned about this before, JWFan.  Yellow card!

[mstrox 6,647]

[Disco Stu 15,495]

[Arpy 4,145]

Sometimes a spade is a spade, it's not a thousand labels. Escapist, blockbuster, art house, who gives a fuck? 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

9 hours ago, AC1 said:

 

 

Nonsense! It was artistically thriving and saw the birth of the American New Wave (mid '60s to early '80s).  Only a fan of the blockbuster format would say that film was dead in the '70s. And yes, it didn't take long for you to refer to Star Wars and E.T.  as the saviours of film. A typical '80s point of view when cinema stood for the endless search for the ultimate blockbuster. A search that still dominates today's cinema. 

 

 

 

" Blockbuster" was a term invented by bitter, East Coast critics to demean the return of myth and magic to the cinema.

 

They hated films that had universal themes and mythic elements For them, it had to be political and current- social realism ( liberal). They didn't get Joseph Campbell.

9 hours ago, AC1 said:

 

 

Nonsense! It was artistically thriving and saw the birth of the it didn't take long for you to refer to Star Wars and E.T.  as the saviours of film.

 

 

 

I started in 1973 with AMERICAN GRAFFITI. The same year.of THE EXORCIST- both artistic landmarks and huge hits.

You ignored the disaster film cycle- the definition of a ' blockbuster'; films calculated to make as much money as possible.

TOMMY...CUCKOOS NEST.....WIND AND THE LION...JAWS..

..APOCALYPZE NOW...SW...ESB ....RAIDERS...CE3K..SUPERMAN....

I'll take those any day over BUSTING and SCARECROW

7 hours ago, AC1 said:

.... I'm leaning very much towards art movies that are disguised as blockbusters, but those are very rare.

YES.

NOLAN epitomizes this trend . But, the cinematic illiterates continue to bash him.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

All these movies are terrible.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

8 hours ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said:

ID4 was the biggest blockbuster of my childhood.

You had a " childhood"?