The MCU - Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

I'm a little surprised at how personal and nasty the PR war between ScarJo & Disney has gotten, with Disney's unfair and hypocritical contention that ScarJo is showing "callous disregard" for COVID victims, and ScarJo's absurd accusations of misogyny.

 

Hmmmm. Well I wonder if that "Tower of Terror" project she was developing for Disney is still on.

[Smaug The Iron 510]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Hmmmm. Well I wonder if that "Tower of Terror" project she was developing for Disney is still on.

The last thing I heard is that Disney cancell it because of the lawsuit. 

[mstrox 6,647]

The lawsuit is great for people who are getting screwed over by Disney that aren’t Scarlett, although an out of court settlement will stamp that benefit out.

[Jay 37,287]

3 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

On Black Widow's dialogue ... I get that the Widows 'programme' is pretty brutal and all, but I thought that - 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 - the stuff about how their reproductive systems are forcibly removed was a bit much. 

 
At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, to me it was the sort of thing you'd expect in a much darker, non-12A/PG-13 movie.  

 

This is something Joss Whedon introduced in one of his Avengers movies and they are just following from that

[A24 4,326]

59 minutes ago, mstrox said:

The lawsuit is great for people who are getting screwed over by Disney that aren’t Scarlett, although an out of court settlement will stamp that benefit out.

 

Villeneuve supports Scarlett's lawsuit against Disney. 

 

https://screenrant.com/dune-denis-villenueve-black-widow-lawsuit-support-response/

 

 

I guess this means he doesn't plan to work for the mouse ever!

[Faleel 5,340]

8 hours ago, Jay said:

 

This is something Joss Whedon introduced in one of his Avengers movies and they are just following from that

I thought it was in Winter Soldier?

 

EDIT: nope, thinking of something else.

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

It was in Avengers Age of Ultron. Natasha was talking to Bruce and  there was a flashback scene.

[Matt C 452]

An unfinished trailer for Spider-Man: No Way Home leaked onto TikTok, as well as several photos of the villains (including a returning actor not mentioned in the entertainment trades).

 

I'm not posting them here, don't want to get banned.

[Jay 37,287]

Banned? For what? 

 

Is this the one you saw, or is a better quality version out there? 

 

 

[Faleel 5,340]

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

Banned? For what? 

 

This the one you saw, or is a better quality version out there? 

 

 

Yeah. Only time I noticed someone get in trouble for leaked stuff, is when some sheet music for a film score leaked before the film release, and one of the creatives involved contacted the mods, and no one got banned.

[Jay 37,287]

There's nothing in the rules against posting leaked trailers or set pictures or anything 

[TSMefford 1,509]

I know it's not finished, but I am a bit underwhelmed by that trailer and the concept of how the multiverse kicks off.

[Giftheck 916]

They already kicked the multiverse off with Loki and What If.

 

If anybody wants to know who the third returning actor is, it's

 

Spoiler

Willem Dafoe as the Green Goblin

 

Plot leaks have been around for months detailing there's three further villains.

 

Spoiler

Paul Giamatti as Rhino (TASM2)

Thomas Hayden Church as Sandman (Spider-Man  3)

Rhys Ifans as The Lizard (TASM)

 

I've also heard that

 

Spoiler

JK Simmons is reprising J Jonah Jameson - in each of the Spider-Man worlds. This will be the first time we actually see TASM JJJ, since he was only mentioned via an on-screen email in TASM2.

 

[Jay 37,287]

Haha, that last part is awesome

[mstrox 6,647]

29 minutes ago, Giftheck said:

They already kicked the multiverse off with Loki and What If.

 

If anybody wants to know who the third returning actor is, it's

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Willem Dafoe as the Green Goblin

 

Plot leaks have been around for months detailing there's three further villains.

 

  Hide contents

Paul Giamatti as Rhino (TASM2)

Thomas Hayden Church as Sandman (Spider-Man  3)

Rhys Ifans as The Lizard (TASM)

 

I've also heard that

 

  Hide contents

JK Simmons is reprising J Jonah Jameson - in each of the Spider-Man worlds. This will be the first time we actually see TASM JJJ, since he was only mentioned via an on-screen email in TASM2.

 

 

Spoiler

Jamie Foxx as Electro

was one of the first casting announcements for the movie iirc.  And

Spoiler

Alfred Molina has gone on the record about returning as Doc Ock.

 

At this point, the only things that would surprise me are

Spoiler

throwing in the animated Spider-men from Into the Spider-verse, video game Spidey, or un-canceling James Franco

.

[A24 4,326]

 

 

It looks like she will get her own Marvel movie even though she was the worst thing about Black Widow.

[mstrox 6,647]

It was the only thing I’ve seen her in, but I thought she was great!  I think the worst thing about Black Widow was the idea of

Spoiler

all the villainous Black Widows being mind controlled heroes that you could heal with a magic gas.  

Although I still liked the movie!

[A24 4,326]

I should have known she would become the darling of JWFan!

 

And you even liked the movie? Wow!

 

 

[mstrox 6,647]

I went into it with the mindset that I wanted to be entertained and I got that.  Since I started logging movies, there are only 18 movies that I genuinely disliked (out of 1,471 logged, although a lot of those are shorts and some are repeat watches).  What a bummer my life would be if I had that much to carp about!

[Alex 2,833]

 

[Jay 37,287]

I think this is different than the leaked version, but it seems like it could be interesting 

 

 

[Matt C 452]

Just now, Jay said:

I think this is different than the leaked version, but it seems like it could be interesting 

 

 

 

It's pretty much the leaker trailer from yesterday, albeit with finished VFX.

 

And it looks like Willem Dafoe is back as Norman Osborn/Green Goblin too.

[Jay 37,287]

Dafoe's laugh and pumpkin bomb, Doc Ock on screen, brief glimpses of Electro, Sandman, and The Lizard.  Pretty cool. 

 

Now we just need Giamatti's Rhino and Tom Hardy... 

 

EDIT: and apparently the guy who slams the papers down is Matt Murdoch! 

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

Nice can’t wait !

[SilverTrumpet 638]

I mean, it's cheap just bringing in every freaking actor ever who's been in any live action Spider-Man movie ever, but it'll get butts in seats.

 

Mine included.

[JohnnyD 1,220]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

 

 

 

While I am looking forward to the rest of What If?, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, Hawkeye, and Eternals, this is the one I'm looking forward to the most. At least until Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness comes out!

[TSMefford 1,509]

Honestly I'm shocked everyone is so excited for this. Like, yeah, I think it'll be cool to see all these world's collide and to see some of these actors / characters back, but the set-up for how this happens is bland and awful to me. It's gonna have to be really cool after the spell for me to get over how dumb that set-up is.

 

Also, why to we keep feeling the need to overstuff the third Spider-Man movies. I'm extremely skeptical that this won't feel like I mess. I sure hope I'm wrong, because I'm very disappointed how not into this I am. Wasn't expecting this.

[crocodile 7,984]

Looks fun. Hopefully it won't end up being a complete clusterfuck. 

 

I'm not terribly excited about this whole multiverse concept. Never liked them in comics either. Seems like it's what everyone is doing these days. 

 

Karol

[Alex 2,833]

I think there’s more to this film. I refuse to believe that Dr Strange would just mess with time to do a favour for a mate.

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

Dr. Strange almost felt like a villain in that trailer.  Maybe that wasn't our Dr. Strange.

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

I’ve no interest in the MCU but I’m here for Toby and Garfield! 

[Jay 37,287]

Could easily be Mephisto or some other new villain, masquerading as Strange (and somehow fooling Wong) 

 

Or it is Strange, but the spell is just a trick, showing Peter the downside of making everyone forget he's Spider-Man, and by the end of the movie the spell wears off and Peter learns his lesson 

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

So Dr. Strange casting a spell to make everyone forget that Peter Parker is Spider-Man is from a comic arc called "Brand New Day." It was highly controversial with some fans because it supposedly undid years of character development. I'm sure the folks at Marvel Studios are aware of the criticism and I would not at all be surprised if Spider-Man's identity is still or is once again known by average people at the end of the film.

[Jay 37,287]

The bigger question is does the MCU Tom Holland Spider-man end the movie still in the MCU, or in another multiverse so Sony can use him in their own movies without cooperating with Fiege and Disney any more?

 

Or will he stay in the MCU, but the movie will set up a premise where Sony can now make their own Spider-man films with Maguire or Garfield or a new actor while Tom Holland MCU films also still happen?

[JohnnyD 1,220]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

...another multiverse so Sony can use him in their own movies without cooperating with Fiege and Disney any more?

 

Or will he stay in the MCU, but the movie will set up a premise where Sony can now make their own Spider-man films with Maguire or Garfield or a new actor while Tom Holland MCU films also still happen?

 

Highly unlikely; casting Tom Holland as Peter Parker/Spider-Man by Marvel Studios, introducing him in Captain America: Civil War, continuing his story in Spider-Man: Homecoming, being a part of Avengers: Infinity War, bringing him back in Avengers: Endgame, continuing his story in Spider-Man: Far from Home has been a tremendous success and a win-win for EVERYBODY. It won't end with Spider-Man: No Way Home.

[Jay 37,287]

Nowhere in my post did I suggest that it would.

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

What's interesting to me about this situation is that Disney, for the first time, might just be looking over at Sony with a twinge of envy. The reception to the Disney+ Marvel shows have been lukewarm at best, Black Widow (which I enjoyed) was an underperforming Phase 3 afterthought, and I don't sense a lot of excitement for Shang-Chi or Eternals.

 

But between the leak and the official trailer, there seems to be a lot of excitement for this new Spiderman movie, that to a certain extent is stealing a bit of Shang-Chi's thunder. I certainly think it looks more interesting than anything Disney/Marvel is doing. It's almost as if Sony timed this intentionally. 

 

 

[Giftheck 916]

I think what Jay is just wondering what that means exactly. Prior to the renegotiation, Marvel could veto any attempt Sony made to include the Tom Holland Spider-Man in their films. Now, they'll be able to include that character. Hence what Feige meant when he said Spider-Man is in the unique position of being able to 'cross universes'. He's just wondering what that means exactly. I think it'll mean that Sony and Marvel get to 'share' the Tom Holland Spider-Man.

 

That's not to say that Sony doesn't have the option of using their past versions of Spider-Man in future projects either. There's talk doing the rounds that Sony is looking into reviving past series (more than likely if they do, it'll be the Andrew Garfield series given the Tobey Maguire series did close itself out after three films, while TASM felt more 'open-ended' and 'sequel-hooked').

[Jay 37,287]

39 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

What's interesting to me about this situation is that Disney, for the first time, might just be looking over at Sony with a twinge of envy. The reception to the Disney+ Marvel shows have been lukewarm at best, Black Widow (which I enjoyed) was an underperforming Phase 3 afterthought, and I don't sense a lot of excitement for Shang-Chi or Eternals.

 

But between the leak and the official trailer, there seems to be a lot of excitement for this new Spiderman movie, that to a certain extent is stealing a bit of Shang-Chi's thunder. I certainly think it looks more interesting than anything Disney/Marvel is doing. It's almost as if Sony timed this intentionally. 

 

I don't know about all that.  I think Disney and Fiege have always been well-aware that Spider-man is the most popular superhero in Marvel's canon, which is why they wanted to collaborate with Sony to bring him into the MCU in the first place

 

This film is going to be the biggest money-maker at the box office in 2021, everybody knows that

 

 

37 minutes ago, Giftheck said:

I think what Jay is just wondering what that means exactly. Prior to the renegotiation, Marvel could veto any attempt Sony made to include the Tom Holland Spider-Man in their films. Now, they'll be able to include that character. Hence what Feige meant when he said Spider-Man is in the unique position of being able to 'cross universes'. He's just wondering what that means exactly. I think it'll mean that Sony and Marvel get to 'share' the Tom Holland Spider-Man.

 

That's not to say that Sony doesn't have the option of using their past versions of Spider-Man in future projects either. There's talk doing the rounds that Sony is looking into reviving past series (more than likely if they do, it'll be the Andrew Garfield series given the Tobey Maguire series did close itself out after three films, while TASM felt more 'open-ended' and 'sequel-hooked').

 

Yea, exactly

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think Disney and Fiege have always been well-aware that Spider-man is the most popular superhero in Marvel's canon

 

Indeed. What Fiege did with mostly B-characters in the Infinity Saga, mostly without Spider-man (to say nothing of X-Men), was nothing short of astounding.  It would be like building the DC universe without Superman. So well done Kevin Fiege & Disney.

 

But I just don't sense as much excitement or interest in Phase 4, or these characters, so far. I mean, I'm far from a Marvel fanboy, and certainly not an expert, I'm only peripherally interested in these films. However, if I'm reading my fan community tea leaves correctly, I think that we may have already reached peak interest in the MCU. But I guess time will tell, and if I'm way off here I'd welcome anyone more invested in this universe to set me straight.

But in any event, as you point out, Spider-man is the most popular superhero Marvel has, and I wouldn't be surprised if Sony decides to go it alone after this film.

[Giftheck 916]

Lightning in a bottle with those characters, and even then to a few they were starting to wear out their welcome. The chances of doing it a second time... well, Marvel must be glad to have more of the big hitters back, like the X-Men. Even so, Marvel is a ways off doing anything with them yet.

 

I have the feeling Sony will still allow Marvel to use Spider-Man in their films, but they will certainly start doing things solo again when it comes to the solo outings.

[Matt C 452]

41 minutes ago, Giftheck said:

That's not to say that Sony doesn't have the option of using their past versions of Spider-Man in future projects either. There's talk doing the rounds that Sony is looking into reviving past series (more than likely if they do, it'll be the Andrew Garfield series given the Tobey Maguire series did close itself out after three films, while TASM felt more 'open-ended' and 'sequel-hooked').

 

As recent as the Garfield series is, Raimi has gone on record on how unhappy he was with Spider-Man 3. If Far From Home generates more demand for Tobey (and Raimi feels energized after Doctor Strange 2), I can see Sony luring Raimi and Maguire back for a fourth movie -- with creative control intact.

 

I would personally see a fourth Maguire movie than a third Andrew Garfield movie myself.

[Giftheck 916]

I'd see both.

[Jay 37,287]

It's kind of funny that Giacchino is scoring the film full of the Raimi villains from the Elfman-scored Spider-man films, while Elfman is scoring the Raimi-directed sequel to the Giacchino-scored Dr Strange....

[Giftheck 916]

Elfman's using Giacchino's theme also, IIRC. I wonder if Giacchino will return the favour... or even if he's allowed to? Elfman wasn't best-pleased when he heard his themes were used in Spider-Man 3 without his knowledge, from what I recall.

[crocodile 7,984]

Would be nice to hear some nods to Horner and Zimmer too. 

 

Karol

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

It's kind of funny that Giacchino is scoring the film full of the Raimi villains from the Elfman-scored Spider-man films, while Elfman is scoring the sequel to the Giacchino-scored Dr Strange....

 

They should do the ole' switcheroo.

[HunterTech 987]

And risk losing the opportunity for a composer to- wait, that actually would apply to both Gia and Elfman in this case. No matter who did it, it'd be their third time scoring the character. I wouldn't mind the switch (even if I'd personally rather Gia actually get to finish his trilogy, with how good FFH was).

 

I'm a bit conflicted on the project as a whole, given I would've much rather they actually given MCU Spidey one more proper solo outing so that he further fleshes out his character before doing any multiverse shenanigans. Not to mention that I'm not too crazy about the set up, even if there is great potential character/story work that can be done here. Especially given that with how much Strange was so dependent on the variables being just correct for IW/Endgame, this seems like a weirdly irresponsible thing to do for someone who's supposedly come very far along in his training. In any case, I hope it does more to service Holland, rather than have him get lost in what should be his movie.

 

The music was always going to be disappointing to me callback wise, given I often fantasize about how they could merge the different sounds together. With Giacchino in particular, I don't expect much more than a few brief quotes (which actually would help more in developing his own sound for the MCU, given both Spidey and Strange are involved).

 

(Also, where the hell do people keep hearing Elfman was disappointed with the use of his material in Spidey 3? I swear the lack of an official word from him really doesn't help in terms of figuring out why the score is in release limbo.)

[Jay 37,287]

8 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

with how much Strange was so dependent on the variables being just correct for IW/Endgame, this seems like a weirdly irresponsible thing to do for someone who's supposedly come very far along in his training

 

Which is why it's entirely possible that isn't Strange, but someone impersonating him (and Parker and Wong both don't realize it)

[mstrox 6,647]

With Strange wearing his hoodie under the magical cape or whatever, maybe he’s undergoing an existential crisis similar to Thor in Endgame.  Or, what is almost certainly the case, we’re seeing a very Cliff’s Notes version of the actual inciting event, lacking nuance.