Jump to content
Jay

Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread

Recommended Posts

Anyone who genuinely thinks that Marvel had a well thought through - “extended universe” - plan beginning with Iron Man and being meticulously planned through the first couple of years, is kidding them selves.

 

Half of it was guessing and taking it one step at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

In JK Rowling’s case, I tend to believe her more than Feige or Lucas. Some elements, like the Horcruxes, really do feel like they’re premeditated.

Definitely, it was a brilliant way of intertwining Harry's and Voldemort's fate that would've required careful planning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

In JK Rowling’s case, I tend to believe her more than Feige or Lucas. Some elements, like the Horcruxes, really do feel like they’re premeditated.

 

I don't think they are. She made them up after book 5 or during the writing of book 5. She wrote herself into a corner after Book 4 and had to get creative to have material for the last 3 books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

I don't think they are. She made them up after book 5 or during the writing of book 5. She wrote herself into a corner after Book 4 and had to get creative to have material for the last 3 books.

 

What are you talking about? What corner do you mean? I am quite sure that the main story, including the horcruxes, was planned. Book 2 already used one of them, the diary. not called horcrux there, but already depicted as a strangely powerful magical object without definite explanation. Of course in theory it could have been retconned, but I do not believe that without clear evidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say it's a mixture of both. She may have had certain things in mind when she was writing the early books but it may not have been exactly what we ended up with.

 

She does seem to have built upon her early work, especially the second book rather brilliantly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Gurkensalat said:

 

What are you talking about? What corner do you mean? I am quite sure that the main story, including the horcruxes, was planned. Book 2 already used one of them, the diary. not called horcrux there, but already depicted as a strangely powerful magical object without definite explanation. Of course in theory it could have been retconned, but I do not believe that without clear evidence.

 

It was retconned. Writers do this all the time. I am a budding writer (currently writing my first novel) and as I write more and more, I find the writing in other films and books more transparent as I am able to see through what the writer did. I think the diary being a horcrux was definitely retconned. 

 

You'd have thunk that something so monumental to the mythology as horcruxes would have been mentioned before Book 6. But they weren't. 

 

That's not to say it makes them bad books or anything. If anything it shows Rowling's creativeness as I said above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to several interviews, Rowling didn't have a grand plan for the series as a whole, only snippets so she had a trajectory of where she wanted it to go. Harry's death was one of them, and Hagrid carrying him out of the forest was an image she saw that stuck with her all the way through the writing. I believe the Deathly Hallows and Horcruxes must've been there for quite some time as they are intrinsically linked to the theme of death that connects Harry's and Voldemort's arcs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The books turned out just fine either way. Is the point of this to find out whether to praise her for having a great master plan or praise her for making great use of seeds of ideas left up in the air earlier?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to bog an already bogged MCU thread with more Potter, but I think the discussion was born from a jab at Feige, who probably didn't have much to do with the grand plan, rather making a tonne of films to proffer in the new Disney Totalitarian regime.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does make a lot of sense from Sony's perspective actually. Taking a cut from 95% to 50% is a lot. I'm not at all surprised. It is their only sure-fire hit franchise and their last two Spidey-related titles did well.

 

Karol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, crocodile said:

It does make a lot of sense from Sony's perspective actually. Taking a cut from 95% to 50% is a lot. I'm not at all surprised. It is their only sure-fire hit franchise and their last two Spidey-related titles did well.

 

Karol

 

I think that's the thing people forget: it's still Sony's name attached to the films, their logos in the openings and their financial gains. Obviously we don't know the exact details of how things worked for these films, but I have a feeling Disney's involvement may have involved going no further than making sure Spider-Man fit into the MCU and they wanted to take greater control.

 

I guess the only thing left is for Disney to buy Sony now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well yeah, it appears Sony essentially "licensed" the character (but, oddly, without many supporting characters) to Marvel and to do all the dirty work of making the films. In exchange, Marvel can use the character within their universe.

 

Karol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

Yeah but Marvel was the main creative force behind those two hit films.  At least as I understand it.  I like the MCU but it’s whatever.  I liked it before Spidey and I’ll like it after.

 

That's not what the articles are implying - they're basically suggesting that Marvel's involvement was worth their 5% stake but they wanted to increase both that stake and their involvement in the films and Sony refused. Whether there's any truth to that, we probably will never know.

 

My big worry is that we wind up with a Spider-Man 3/TASM2 situation where they stuff the character up so badly another reboot is done. I'm hoping that's not the case. Sony did do Into The Spider-Verse all on their own and that film was probably one of the best if not the best Spider-Man film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Either way, I’m not worried about Spider-Man or the MCU.  Into the Spider-Verse was good so some people at Sony know what they’re doing.  And with movies like The Eternals and the Doctor Strange and Thor sequels, two of their best characters for me, on the way, the MCU looks like it’ll be cool for a while too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't we have a discussion sometime back when someone said the MCU isn't very difficult to do. And I said it is still outrageously and preposterously complicated and a human achievement in management and logistics that this universe even exists.

 

This decision shows how fragile the MCU is. Pull out one card and it trembles. Have one big name marquee actor pull out and it trembles.

 

I think this is definitely a bad call on Sony's part. They made gutter trash Spiderman movies when they made them on their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Didn't we have a discussion sometime back when someone said the MCU isn't very difficult to do. And I said it is still outrageously and preposterously complicated and a human achievement in management and logistics that this universe even exists.

 

This decision shows how fragile the MCU is. Pull out one card and it trembles. Have one big name marquee actor pull out and it trembles.

 

I think this is definitely a bad call on Sony's part. They made gutter trash Spiderman movies when they made them on their own.

 

THey made Spider-Verse on their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This “news” stinks of a bargaining chip to pressure Sony into signing on. I’d put money on this conversation not being over. 

 

As as far as the Spider-man series goes, they could easily do part 3 without MCU involvement.  Far From Home ended with enough tantalizing tidbits that they wouldn’t really need glorified SHIELD cameos to make it work.  If anyone is so married to the idea of some master continuity, I’m sure they can just squint a little at any future sequels and they’ll be just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Far From Home turned Shield into a bloody joke. 

 

All the people I've seen whining about the fact that future Spidey films won't have the same MCU presence are creatively bankrupt if they think it can't work without it. I wish they'd cut back on this interconnected universe and focus on the individual characters where they can have time to breathe in their own neck of the woods without some hanging nostalgia and sense of duty to Stark and The Avengers, and fucking Shield.

 

Homecoming and Far From Home are entertaining for the most part, but I felt as if Peter didn't have much of a character, or a sense he existed outside of the scenes he was in (like he's a living script). Both films rely too heavily on the worldbuilding established in the Avengers series instead of working to build a world for Peter where we can care about his life, his struggles independently. The other versions gave hints of this by giving him an interest in science and his job at the Daily Bugle. His interest in science in these films are basically fiddling around with Stark holograms and his suit.

 

Show Peter in school, give more of a sense of his day-to-day life, what does he love? Who does he love? Work in a relationship, and a good villain with an interesting motivation (that wasn't in some way influenced by The Avengers' actions) and you're set.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Five minutes ago it was all 'boycott Disney'. Now it's 'Disney is the best, boycott Sony'. Fuck sakes, make up your minds, nerds!

 

(Also, called the outrage!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gistech said:

There's a little more to the story, it seems it might not be as much of a 'done thing' as it seems:

 

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/spider-man-mcu-sony-disney-agreement-1203308069/

 

$$$$$

5 hours ago, mstrox said:

This “news” stinks of a bargaining chip to pressure Sony into signing on. I’d put money on this conversation not being over. 

 

A little bit of bad press is just what Sony needs to be a bit more pliable at the negotiation table.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...