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Jay

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Not even MCU fanatics or even superhero enthusiasts in general liked this Thor movie much. I just hope the "failure" of this movie (with fans, not at the box office) shows Marvel that audiences can dislike too much stupid silly humor in such a large dose.

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21 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Not even MCU fanatics or even superhero enthusiasts in general liked this Thor movie much. 

 

Indeed. My son is a fan of the previous one (Thor: Ragnarok) but he thought this one was mostly bad. It's almost hard to believe that this script got the stamp of approval from everyone. Natalie Portman's moment of female power (while fighting against Gorr) was another painful moment.

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1 hour ago, AC1 said:

I watched Thor: Love And Thunder. This has to be one of the more silly ones. More idiotic than funny. The final 'battle' (with the kids) was so cringe.

 

Thor-Love-and-Thunder-4.jpg

Yes. This one didn't fill me with much confidence for Waititi's Star Wars movie.

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3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Not even MCU fanatics or even superhero enthusiasts in general liked this Thor movie much. I just hope the "failure" of this movie (with fans, not at the box office) shows Marvel that audiences can dislike too much stupid silly humor in such a large dose.

 

To me this is like Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. I hated both of them. But I was perplexed at the people who were at least OK with Forever but B&R was TOO MUCH.

 

I don't hate Waititi's Thor movies, parts of them are pretty terrific. But his two Thor movies are very much his Thor movies. Both of them are more silly than serious (not that either of the previous movies were all that serious) and both take jabs at the character and the world. Waititi blew up Asgard and followed it with a punchline. Thor leaves Age of Ultron with a mission and a purpose to find the Infinity Stones. He shows up in Ragnarok and turns out to be just not very into it because it wasn't fun enough and it seemed a little too complicated for Thor? This version of the character is the one that we got in Infinity War and certainly in Endgame. So I was not surprised that I didn't like Love and Thunder as much as the first two, but I was surprised at the people who thought this movie suddenly took a turn.

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I think there are three reasons Batman Forever worked a little for me while Batman and Robin did not.  First, Forever had the Robin story which was a decent backbone to hang the story on (where Silverstone’s sad sick uncle story wasn’t particularly interesting).  Second, Carrey and Jones sold it for the most part while Schwarzenegger and Thurman did not.  Third, I was 10 when Forever came out and I was a much wiser 13 when And Robin came out, so the nostalgia factor is there.

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Nah, I don’t think Love and Thunder ever fully won me back after that scene tbh.  I do think, as a whole, I liked it better than Doctor Strange earlier in the year.  I think ever since Endgame, Marvel’s movies have been just pretty okay.  I’ve enjoyed all the D+ shows more.

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30 minutes ago, mstrox said:

 I think ever since Endgame, Marvel’s movies have been just pretty okay. 

 

Still too generous.  Thor: Love And Thunder is not "pretty okay" (except for the Zeus scene, of course).

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Opinions!

15 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Shang-Chi and Black Panther 2 I liked more than some of the D+ shows, but definitely not as much as the best D+ shows. Those have generally been MUCH stronger than the movies in Phase 4 though, IMO.

 

Yavar


Haven’t seen BP2 yet, but looking forward to catching it this weekend when it’s streaming. Shang Chi was good and I liked Black Widow and Eternals as well.   I expected to enjoy Spiderman 3 more than I did, but that may have been unfairly set up by everyone’s raves about it.


For the most part, I’m struggling to care too much about the movies that have some End of the World!! type climax, of which most of them do now.  The end of the world seems to be coming even for the freqking Ant Man!  The low stakes of the TV shows really fit the fun comic book vibe I enjoy more these days.  The series should earn its apocalypses.

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I liked Doctor Strange 2 significantly more than Love and Thunder and Wakanda Forever, which were both the biggest Marvel disappointments for me in a while.  I think both were essentially failures, and I'm a big MCU guy!

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Everything that's been released since the pandemic started is Phase 4; Phase 5 begins with Ant-man 3 in a few weeks

 

 

My thoughts on Phase 4:

 

 

WandaVision - Absolutely fantastic first 7 episodes, final 2 episodes were so lame it soured the whole show for me

Falcon & Winter Soldier - Liked it a lot!

Loki - Liked parts of it, felt kind of half-baked.  Owen Wilson was underused - cool setup of the Jonathan Majors villain though

Black Widow - Fun but kinda pointless.  Would have been better it was made and released after Civil War and before Infinity War

What If? - Haven't seen it yet

Shang-Chi - Really fun, enjoyed it a lot

Eternals - Haven't seen it yet

Hawkeye - Really liked it a lot!

Spider-man No Way Home - Fun from an acting standpoint but not a fan of the plot (same thought I have on Far From Home)

Moon Knight - Wanted to like it but somehow it just wasn't that great really

Doctor Strange 2 - Fun, really liked it, Raimi touches elevated it higher than it would have been under any other director

Ms Marvel - Absolutely loved it, best MCU show by far

Thor 4 - Fun but really forgettable.  Lame to bring back Portman only to just kill her off - she was so great as a Thor!

She-Hulk - Really bad

Werewolf By Night - Very fun, barely felt like MCU content really

Black Panther 2 - Haven't seen it yet

Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday special - haven't seen it yet

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I don't think the finale episodes of Wandavision were that lame.  I liked the flashback to Agatha's origin and Agatha going through Wanda's memories with her, I thought the Boner reveal was funny, I liked the Ship of Thebes scene between the Visions, and I liked the sequence of Wanda saying goodbye to fake kids and fake Vision.  Were the confrontations between Wanda/Agatha and the Visions a bit disappointing? Sure, but not enough to sour it all.

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MY MCU PHASE 4 RANKING as of this afternoon

 

1. Loki

2. WandaVision

3. Hawkeye

4. Black Widow

5. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

6. Spider-Man: No Way Home

7. Ms. Marvel

8. The Falcon and The Winter Soldier

9. Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings

10. Moon Knight

11. Thor: Love and Thunder

12. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

13. She-Hulk

14. Eternals

 

I left off What If and the Werewolf thing on purpose

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For me...

 

1. WandaVision

2. Spider-Man: No Way Home

3. Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings

4. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

5. Thor: Love and Thunder

6. The Falcon and The Winter Soldier

7.  Marvel's Werewolf by Night

8. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

9. Black Widow

10. Moon Knight

11. Marvel's What if...?

12. Hawkeye

13. Ms. Marvel

14. She-Hulk

15. Eternals

16. Loki

 

Karol

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Interesting to read here the disappointment in Thor L&T. My wife is a  pretty big MCU fan (unlike me) and she was also very “meh” about both that movie and Wakanda Forever.

 

It seems like there’s a growing sense that the MCU gas tank is starting to run on empty. Not surprising given how many trips Feige has been making to the well. 

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20 minutes ago, Bayesian said:

Interesting to read here the disappointment in Thor L&T. My wife is a  pretty big MCU fan (unlike me) and she was also very “meh” about both that movie and Wakanda Forever.

 

It seems like there’s a growing sense that the MCU gas tank is starting to run on empty. Not surprising given how many trips Feige has been making to the well. 

 

I dunno, I think people expected it to be able to maintain the high watermark (in terms of both audience reception and box office) that crested around 2018-2019, which was just never going to happen.  I think the MCU can keep going at, say, 75% as successful as it was in that 18-19 period for a pretty long time.

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I don’t think Phase 4 is any different quality-wise from Phase 1 - which had Iron Man 2, Thor, the Incredible Hulk, the first Captain America, and Avengers - all of which were just okay to me.  Even back in its high point there were movies that were just all right like Captain Marvel and Guardians 2. (Imo)

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The only low points of Phase 1 for me were Iron Man 2 and The Hulk. And Iron Man 2, in the greater context of the MCU isn't that bad. Just not as good as Iron Man 1. Hulk's biggest sins are being forgettable and not having Mark Ruffalo.

 

I will defend Captain America: The First Avenger and Thor against all comers.

 

It does make one wonder what made people willing to take a chance on that guy from Parks and Rec with a talking raccoon but not whatever Eternals looked like. I mean, they were right, of course. I think Eternals and Iron Man 2 are the only MCU movies I didn't see at the cinema.

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Phase 1-3 were about a 50/50 hit/miss ratio for me, there are 12 I watched more than once, though none of them were unwatchable. And the ones I enjoyed, I enjoyed a lot, my favourites being Thor 1, Iron Man 1, Cap 1, GotG 1 & Infinity War/Endgame. 

 

On the other hand, with the exception of Black Widow, which I enjoyed parts of (and consider to be a leftover from Phase 3 anyway), I've found all the Phase 4 projects, both film & TV, to be unwatchable. 

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10 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Black Widow, which I enjoyed parts of (and consider to be a leftover from Phase 3 anyway)

 

For me, it even improved a lot on rewatch when you can just dig the good parts and roast the bad parts.  Easily my favorite MCU feature film from the last two years, the one that's the most fun as just a dumb action movie.

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1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

And the ones I enjoyed, I enjoyed a lot, my favourites being Thor 1, Iron Man 1, Cap 1, GotG 1 & Infinity War/Endgame. 

 

Someone else loves Thor 1? Wow. Maybe I can find someone else who loves The Dark World! (My favorite Thor movie.)

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On 30/1/2023 at 5:01 PM, Tallguy said:

 

Someone else loves Thor 1? Wow. Maybe I can find someone else who loves The Dark World! (My favorite Thor movie.)

 

Thor 1 is easily one of my favourite MCU movies. I don't think Branagh gets enough credit for setting the tone of the character, and giving the whole thing a Shakespearean, operatic feel about it. And by doing that, it created a scenario where it was easy to poke fun at those aspects of Thor's character later...Waititi's films wouldn't have been possible if Thor hadn't been played relatively straight in Branagh's film. Initially, to great effect, but later they took the comedic element too far IMO and destroyed his character arc. That's to say nothing of Branagh's brilliant use of Hiddleson as Loki, which was possibly the best casting decision in the MCU after Downey.

 

That said, I thought The Dark World was awful, and none of the Thor films, including the enjoyable but overrated Ragnarok, have matched the first one.

 

 

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On 30/01/2023 at 2:13 PM, Nick1Ø66 said:

Phase 1-3 were about a 50/50 hit/miss ratio for me, there are 12 I watched more than once, though none of them were unwatchable. And the ones I enjoyed, I enjoyed a lot, my favourites being Thor 1, Iron Man 1, Cap 1, GotG 1 & Infinity War/Endgame. 

 

On the other hand, with the exception of Black Widow, which I enjoyed parts of (and consider to be a leftover from Phase 3 anyway), I've found all the Phase 4 projects, both film & TV, to be unwatchable. 

 

You and I probably have the opposite taste in films. I thought Black Widow was the worst Phase 4 entry next to Thor: Love and Thunder. It started out great, and then dissolved into nonsense. No Way Home and Wakanda Forever are the two best Phase 4 films.

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22 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

It started out great, and then dissolved into nonsense.

 

It's become something of a trope to say that MCU movies always end with special effects mish mash. IMHO Black Widow is the one movie that really does this. Most MCU movies have a finale that is at least still rooted in the characters set up in the rest of the film. I LIKED the finale of Shang-Chi. OK, Ant-Man got a little shaky.

 

Not only that, but I could tell from the trailers of Black Widow how bad this was going to be.

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I really can't rank MCU films, b/c a lot of them run together for me. So I just think of them in terms of films I have/will watch again, and those I won't.

 

Rewatchable:

 

    •    Iron Man 1
    •    Thor 1 
    •    Cap 1

    •    Cap Civil War
    •    Avengers
    •    GotG
    •    Doctor Strange
    •    Black Panther

    •    Spidey 1
    •    Infinity War
    •    Endgame
    •    Black Widow
   

One and done:

  • The Incredible Hulk
  • Cap 2
  • Iron Man 2
  • Iron Man 3
  • Thor 2
  • Thor 3
  • Ant-Man
  • Ant-Man 2
  • Avengers 2
  • GotG 2
  • Spidey 2
  • Cap Marv

 

Yes, yes, Black Widow is technically Phase 4, but I consider it a Phase 3 leftover, and in any event I have a soft spot for the character.

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9 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

It's become something of a trope to say that MCU movies always end with special effects mish mash. IMHO Black Widow is the one movie that really does this. Most MCU movies have a finale that is at least still rooted in the characters set up in the rest of the film. I LIKED the finale of Shang-Chi. OK, Ant-Man got a little shaky.

 

Not only that, but I could tell from the trailers of Black Widow how bad this was going to be.

 

I wish I can agree with Shang Chi. To me, that film had the same issue as Black Widow. Black Widow should have been like James Bond, John Wick or Top Gun. A serious action film with some over the top sequences to fit the comic book universe. Shang Chi should be a thriller-spy film or at least closer to the comics. 

 

Instead, both films were held back by The Formula. Excessive fantasy elements, jokes, forced family interactions, tired ideas. "A Chinese superhero film! Let's add a water dragon!" And yes, the ridiculous bloated ending sequences that should be in a superman film instead.

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1 hour ago, Mephariel said:

The Formula. Excessive fantasy elements, jokes, forced family interactions, tired ideas. "A Chinese superhero film! Let's add a water dragon!" And yes, the ridiculous bloated ending sequences that should be in a superman film instead.

 

Well, yeah. That's pretty much every MCU film. Some just do it a little better than others.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Edmilson said:

Captain Marvel is near the bottom of my ranking of MCU movies. But I do like Pinar Toprak's score.

 

It's in my rather vast middle. And none of the middle is bad.

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I may be the only one to think that, but phase 4 is my favorite so far. The movies and the shows were all different, without being forced to connect. Avengers 5 and 6 are still far from here, and that’s imo a good thing. You have basic comedy (She-Hulk, Thor 4…) or dumb action (Black Widow, NWH), as well as some of the most creative content in the entire MCU. You even have good directors ! The only problem I have is that there is too much releasing. I start being tired and I hope they will slow down a little…

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9 minutes ago, Benhip said:

I may be the only one to think that, but phase 4 is my favorite so far. The movies and the shows were all different, without being forced to connect. Avengers 5 and 6 are still far from here, and that’s imo a good thing. You have basic comedy (She-Hulk, Thor 4…) or dumb action (Black Widow, NWH), as well as some of the most creative content in the entire MCU. You even have good directors ! The only problem I have is that there is too much releasing. I start being tired and I hope they will slow down a little…

Interesting. I would almost disagree with every statement in your post.

 

But I treat you to MCU phase 4. :) 

Good for you. I had three phases of great fun.

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I appreciate that!  I wouldn’t agree that I prefer Phase 4, but in a lot of ways it feels like a necessary “reset” to stock the action figure bin for future events.  It feels almost like a return to Phase 1 - unconnected or barely connected material (though a whole ton of it, and with much higher stakes - much different than where we started with a guy in a robot suit punching another guy in a robot suit at the finale).  If anything, I think I’d have preferred the movies to be LESS connected to what came before - and have less of what is clearly connective tissue to future media - though that would surely have been box office poison.

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What I dislike most about phase 4 is the move away from these particular cool man-to-man martial arts combats to this cosmic creatures throw their flashes or force fields at each other. I couldn't be less interested is that. GotG always had that too, but at least they we're funny. The previous movies still managed to keep some foundation in the real world of natural science. This more or less vanished completely. And characters change just along the plotlines (more than the did before).

That is why from phase 4 I most liked The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. That still had that old spirit.

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