Finally saw Star Trek Nemesis,...Stefan do not read

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Spoilers********

so go ahead and read, anyways, because you need to know.

OH MY GOD, Did That SUCK

This was an absolute disaster. And people at Paramount have the nerve

to say they made a good film!!!

Yes, Nicholas Meyers made a good film, and thief John Logan, stole every single idea. Its amazing, I read the script and thought, ok, this can be pretty good. Then I read the book and I thought, uh-oh, not good, but now I have seen the film and just have to ask, Stuart Baird, John Logan, what were you thinking.

OK, let me say that there are a couple of good moments in the film. The end as Picard walks out of his office and down the hall and then you see the Enterprise being rebuilt in dry dock. That is by far the single best shot in the film. Stewart as Picard is such a stellar actor that he rises above the dreck, hello Ewen McGregor, Natalie Portman. Stewart destroys the notion that you can't act through a bad script.

Now to the bad.

1. The Enterprise crew goes out and finds the positronic signatures and it turns out to be another android, and the crew acts all surprised but never ask is it Lore. I suppose they didn't want a connection to a show that was on television, except is was a television show, with 7 years of backstory that cannot be ignored. What makes it so frustrating is that

they drop hints in the film about the dominion war, the borg, Captain Kirk, and other things, and yet they wont use real connections when needed.

2. The were Spock transfers his katra, is stolen, as Data downloads his entire memories into B-4.

3. The genesis wave by any other same is still as destructive. Oh this time its tholiron energy or something like that.

4. Wesley is wearing a Star Fleet uniform, except he left Star Fleet.

5. The great space battle that never happened. I kept expecting something quite exciting, in fact I am still waiting, but at least I can watch an episode of DS9 and see a better fight.

6. The whole Nosferatu look of the Remens, who being Vulcan decendants, would have a real difficult time evolving such a look in 1000 years or so.

7. The cheap false nose on Tom Hardy, that when in close up you could see the glue lines. You make a movie with Romulan vampires and you can glue on a nose without it showing. AAARRRGGGGHHHHHH.

8. Oh and why is Worf there when he left Star Fleet to join the Klingon government.

9. Wasting Captain/Admiral Janeway in this mess for no real reason.

10. Ignoring all of DS9 and Voyager, and all the advances Star Fleet had incorporated. The Enterprise should have had phased torpedos and the new shielding.

11. The terrible score which is even worse than I thought, plus it used the Enterprise theme which was appropriate for Kirk's Enterprise, but not Picards. Different ship, different time.

Thank you Rick Berman, Stuart Baird, John Logan, and Paramount, you have killed Star Trek. Between this shit and Enterprise, the series, it is dead

[UCFKevin 0]

Wow. No kiddin'. I loved it. Think it's the best Trek movie. Kooky.

[Lurker 5]

Wow. No kiddin'. I loved it. Think it's the best Trek movie. Kooky.

Very, very far from the best, but certainly not the worst. I enjoyed it more than Insurrection, which was possibly the worst of all the Trek movies.

Nemesis had many positives. The acting was good as was the score. The script, while being a re-hash, was interesting enough to fill my 2 hours. As far as I'm concerned it was the best of the franchise films that I saw last year.

Neil

[IrishCal24 0]

Neil, I think Joe just may revoke your Lucas Bashing license after that post!

[tharpdevenport 4]

Man, well put JoeinAr.

I post regualary at the Trek BBS baord and you thought those were some reason, you should see all the plot holes and problems with continuty this movie had. the least of which "Romulan Ale".

I think if they had fired Logan and got Joel to score it, it might have been okay, but this was wrong from scene one..... the backwards letters in the film title.

[Wojo 2,453]

Joe,

I'm not gonna argue that the movie was nowhere near as good as it could have and should have been, because it was truly a major disappointment. The plotlines were so obviously lifted from prior Treks that it was sick, and the fact that the rich back stories of TNG, DS9, and VOY were all but ignored. Not only that, but all the blindingly apparent plot holes and "why the heck did you do that instead of something that makes sense?" makes me very sad that all involved found this to be a Star Trek movie that they felt very proud of, because aside from the visuals and the heart that the movie tries to have, it just doesn't work.

I would like to know why and how people think this movie is better than Insurrection. Sure, in that movie, we fight a no-name villain to save a no-name planet (a la Generations) when one of the real villains is in Starfleet (a la Star Trek VI, forgiving the stretch). I think the Trek movies are trying too hard to recapture the feel of TNG, and it's just not working.

I would like to comment on some of your points, though.

1. The Enterprise crew goes out and finds the positronic signatures and it turns out to be another android, and the crew acts all surprised but never ask is it Lore.  I suppose they didn't want a connection to a show that was on television, except is was a television show, with 7 years of backstory that cannot be ignored.  What makes it so frustrating is that

they drop hints in the film about the dominion war, the borg, Captain Kirk, and other things, and yet they wont use real connections when needed.

Yeah, this part doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's established in the show that Dr. Noonien Soong made three positronic androids: Lore, Data, and Julianna Soong, so his wife could live a longer life. Data made Lal, but she died within the timeframe of an episode. I don't understand why the writers felt they could or should just invent another android to precede Lore, except that it exists only for Data to dump his memory into, die, and then leave a way to come back once he regrets killing off his character. "Remember?" They did the same thing in ST II to bring back Spock once they realized killing him was a bad idea. I just don't think anyone will care one way or another if Data does actually come back in the form of immature B-4, if they choose to make Star Trek XI. I hope it's five minutes long: the whole Star Trek universe collapses in on itself, so no one else can screw it up. (just kidding)

Plus, is anyone really ticked that they spent all that time in Generations messing with Data's emotion chip and laughing at Mr Tricorder, saying it was fused in his memory. then in First Contact, he could deactivate it? Along come Insurrection and Nemesis, and Data's got no more emotion than he did in Encounter at Farpoint. It sucks, the character development has been totally shot to pieces in these TNG movies; the characters are just cardboard cutouts of their former selves. Oh, and it made me really sad that Geordi and Data, best friends since Farpoint, got virtually no goodbye sequence. And if the plan is "oh, he's not really dead, don't say goodbye until he's really dead," well, that's just dumb.

2. Um, I think I rambled about this.

3. The genesis wave by any other same is still as destructive.  Oh this time its tholiron energy or something like that.

While both can be used for destruction, thalaron and the Genesis effect are inherently different. Thalaron radiation is pure destruction, whereas the Genesis is simply reorganization of existing matter in favor of a new matrix that can support new life, to paraphrase Dr. Marcus. To illustrate this, I gathered some data:

Thalaron on Earth: everything's deader than dead

Thalaron on Moon: you can't kill what's already deader than dead

Genesis on Earth: everything dies and gets reassembled to make new life, a la beginning of the Precambrian

Genesis on Moon: capable of supporting life, and becomes most popular golf course in the solar system

4. Wesley is wearing a Star Fleet uniform, except he left Star Fleet.

I hate when they don't explain stuff in movies, since we last left him on a planet populated by Native Americans in the 7th season of TNG. Jerks.

5. The great space battle that never happened.  I kept expecting something quite exciting, in fact I am still waiting, but at least I can watch an episode of DS9 and see a better fight.

No argument there.

6. The whole Nosferatu look of the Remens, who being Vulcan decendants, would have a real difficult time evolving such a look in 1000 years or so.

Yea, they kinda just forgot about the part that Romulans are descended from Vulcans, and claimed that the Remans are the offshoot of the Romulans. There's no way in hell that they should look so radically different, even with the odd orbit pattern of Remus. However, I did like the Astrometrics shot that showed Remus and Romulus both have their own orbit, like Mars and Earth at size and distance needed for life, rather than having one planet orbit the other. This solved a big argument I had with one of my friends, who thought "binary planet system" meant planets orbiting a common focus, and then that system orbits the star, which is pretty damn near impossible, since both planets would just fall into stable orbits around the sun in their own orbit paths. And one planet around the other, well, that's not two planets, that makes one a moon. Even with Pluto and Charon, Charon is still the moon.

7.  The cheap false nose on Tom Hardy, that when in close up you could see the glue lines.  You make a movie with Romulan vampires and you can glue on a nose without it showing. AAARRRGGGGHHHHHH.

I don't want to talk about lines on noses right now.

8.  Oh and why is Worf there when he left Star Fleet to join the Klingon government.

It's like the Wesley argument; there's something they're not telling us. I guess it's assumed that Worf didn't like politics, and just decided to come back to Starfleet. I'm surprised he wouldn't have joined the Klingon starfleet instead, but come on, it wouldn't be a Next Generation movie if Worf wasn't there. Which is why if there is a Star Trek XI with John-Luck Pickerd and friends, B-4 will "mysteriously and amazingly" become Data.

9.  Wasting Captain/Admiral Janeway in this mess for no real reason.  

Stupid cameo.

10.  Ignoring all of DS9 and Voyager, and all the advances Star Fleet had incorporated.  The Enterprise should have had phased torpedos and the new shielding.

Maybe, maybe not. I bet it will now.

11. The terrible score which is even worse than I thought, plus it used the Enterprise theme which was appropriate for Kirk's Enterprise, but not Picards.  Different ship, different time.

Nope. The Enterprise theme, i.e. the Main Title from Star Trek I, V, First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis, is the theme for the starship U.S.S. Enterprise. Doesn't matter who's captaining the thing. That theme became identified with the Enterprise-D, and thus later the E, in 1987 when it was adapted for The Next Generation. It's not a question of being lazy, or not wanting to write a new theme or march. That is the theme for the Enterprise, whether it's April, Pike, Kirk, Decker, Spock, Picard, Harriman, Garrett, Jellico, or Riker. It'd be totally inappropriate, of course, for that theme to be used in a DS9 or (heaven forbid) Voyager movie. But yes, the score to Nemesis sucked.

I know this movie has been bashed in other threads before, I was just really bored and needed to vent some stuff, and yinz are always good at listening.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Joe' date='

While both can be used for destruction, thalaron and the Genesis effect are inherently different. Thalaron radiation is pure destruction, whereas the Genesis is simply reorganization of existing matter in favor of a new matrix that can support new life, to paraphrase Dr. Marcus. To illustrate this, I gathered some data:

Thalaron on Earth: everything's deader than dead

Thalaron on Moon: you can't kill what's already deader than dead

Genesis on Earth: everything dies and gets reassembled to make new life, a la beginning of the Precambrian

Genesis on Moon: capable of supporting life, and becomes most popular golf course in the solar system[/quote']

You might have missed my point, while fundementally the two energy forms are different they are both totally destructive, because the genesis, may destroy to create, but because of protomatter, it will self destruct once again. Basically Logan needed a destructive energy form and stealing from Shakespear, and in spirit Gertrude Stein, a genesis wave is a genesis wave is a genesis wave.

5. The great space battle that never happened. I kept expecting something quite exciting' date=' in fact I am still waiting, but at least I can watch an episode of DS9 and see a better fight.

[/quote']

No argument there.

fortunately last night was such a great DS9 episode with one of television and films greatest space battles, so while cheated with the film, I was given a reprieve.

7. The cheap false nose on Tom Hardy' date=' that when in close up you could see the glue lines. You make a movie with Romulan vampires and you can glue on a nose without it showing. AAARRRGGGGHHHHHH.

[/quote']

I don't want to talk about lines on noses right now.

to damned obvious on the big screen.

9. Wasting Captain/Admiral Janeway in this mess for no real reason.

Stupid cameo.

I can only imagine how it was supposed to play with Seven of Nine' date=' but since she wasn't available they get Janeway. stretch

10. Ignoring all of DS9 and Voyager, and all the advances Star Fleet had incorporated. The Enterprise should have had phased torpedos and the new shielding.

Maybe, maybe not. I bet it will now.

I sincerely hope that they don't make a new Star Trek movie for a while.

If at all. Give it up guys. Its time for Paramount to put Star Trek to bed for a while. Cancel Enterprise and then proceed to erase it from memory. I know thats too harse, but its a bad show. Given 7 years it might evolve into a decent series, but I wont be watching, and since its performing far worse than Voyager, I don't think many others will either.

But seriously, Paramount does need to put Star Trek to bed for about 7 to 10 years. Then after time has passed start again. But this time put it back in the 24th century taking place after TNG, DS9, Voyager, and these last 3 Star Trek films. Put it on the new Enterprise. Call it Star Trek, the New Generation. Go with the current next series idea that Star Fleet and the Federation are on the verge of extinction, and that the new crew will be part of the savior of Star Fleet and Star Trek in general. Tell us of the heroic demise of the Enterprise E. and the death of legend Captain Picard, and the death of the Titan and her gallant crew.

I know this movie has been bashed in other threads before, I was just really bored and needed to vent some stuff, and yinz are always good at listening.

I am glad I am not alone in my feelings.

[Wojo 2,453]

You might have missed my point, while fundementally the two energy forms are different they are both totally destructive, because the genesis, may destroy to create, but because of protomatter, it will self destruct once again.

Yea, that's my bad. In my zeal to explain the underlying theory of the Genesis device, I kinda forgot that since David Marcus took a shortcut and used protomatter and that the planet blew up, and in the end, Genesis was wholly destructive (except as the necessary plot element to reincarnate Spock). And we can take it as evidence that since no one made a similar Genesis device since the 2280s or so when Star Trek II took place, that means no one found a better way than using volatile protomatter, hence we get real, timetaking terraforming. Either that, or the writers are lazy. Hmm...

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

Or people in the 23rd century just were responsible enough to realize that this kind of technology is too dangerous. See LOTR/"undo something powerful we invented" problem.

Marian - who thoroughly enjoyed Nemesis.

[Wojo 2,453]

Or people in the 23rd century just were responsible enough to realize that this kind of technology is too dangerous.

We can take it as evidence that since no one made a similar Genesis device since the 2280s or so when Star Trek II took place, that means no one found a better way than using volatile protomatter, hence we get real, timetaking terraforming.

That's the same thing, and what I meant; protomatter renders the benevolent and life-giving intentions of Genesis totally destructive to the point where the planet soon becomes a dead asteroid belt. I know of one episode for certain that features terraforming in Star Trek, it's in the first season of TNG when Tasha Yar was still alive. In Enterprise's "Cease Fire," the Vulcans and Andorians are fighting over a planet that the blueskins started to terraform, but that's pre-TOS, so it doesn't count.

[tharpdevenport 4]

Edited your post. Here is a new version, it captures perfectly what your lenghty one intended:

"Finally saw Nemesis.....

********Spoilers********

OH MY GOD, Did That SUCK

********Spoilers********"

sorry, it's true

All views and opinions expressed by Tharpdevenport are of his own and most likely correct and contain many spellinf errors.

[tharpdevenport 4]

Just testing something.....

Steffy weffy was a bullfrog. Onh! And Steffy weffy was his name.

[Wojo 2,453]

Releasing information about the movie cannot be considered spoilers for a movie that's been out for two months. Hypothetically, if someone hasn't seen it yet and still doesn't want to know anything about it, like the fact that Data dies or Picard has a clone (both really $h!tty developments in Star Trek), then it's that person's fault. Once a movie is out, it's fair game to talk about freely.

[Ren 75]

yes tharp that is how some people do spoilers on other boards.

[Lurker 5]

Releasing information about the movie cannot be considered spoilers for a movie that's been out for two months.  Hypothetically, if someone hasn't seen it yet and still doesn't want to know anything about it, like the fact that Data dies or Picard has a clone (both really $h!tty developments in Star Trek), then it's that person's fault.  Once a movie is out, it's fair game to talk about freely.

Except when the person who really loves Star Trek lives in another country where the movie hasn't been released yet.

Neil

[Morn 8]

1. The Enterprise crew goes out and finds the positronic signatures and it turns out to be another android, and the crew acts all surprised but never ask is it Lore.

Maybe it is.

dominion war, the borg, Captain Kirk, and other things, and yet they wont use real connections when needed.

When needed? But I did find the small scene with Janeway a bit silly and obvious.

6. The whole Nosferatu look of the Remens, who being Vulcan decendants, would have a real difficult time evolving such a look in 1000 years or so.

Too right. It's not only real difficult but impossible.

8. Oh and why is Worf there when he left Star Fleet to join the Klingon government.

Maybe he's on leave.

Very, very far from the best, but certainly not the worst. I enjoyed it more than Insurrection, which was possibly the worst of all the Trek movies.

I quite enjoyed Insurrection although it is far from the best. Nemesis probably the worse though.

Not only that, but all the blindingly apparent plot holes and "why the heck did you do that instead of something that makes sense?"

Hmm, what are you refering to.

I sincerely hope that they don't make a new Star Trek movie for a while.

I agree.

If at all. Give it up guys. Its time for Paramount to put Star Trek to bed for a while. Cancel Enterprise and then proceed to erase it from memory. I know thats too harse, but its a bad show.

I'm sorry but trek is never bad, just sometimes mediocre.

And we can take it as evidence that since no one made a similar Genesis device since the 2280s or so when Star Trek II took place, that means no one found a better way than using volatile protomatter, hence we get real, timetaking terraforming. Either that, or the writers are lazy.

No, there is another option, the federation destroyed all knowledge of the technology as it didn't work anyway to avoid political problems.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

Except when the person who really loves Star Trek lives in another country where the movie hasn't been released yet.

Or when the person decides that the movie is probably good enough to definitely get the DVD, and therefore doesn't want to spend money for seeing it in the theatre.

Marian - who already saw it.

[Wojo 2,453]

Yea, well, I forgot about other countries not seeing the films for a while. That's why there's things like the Internet and peer2peer services.

I lost all respect for respecting spoiler privileges when I bought Episode I's soundtrack and found that Qui-Gon had an "honorable death" and a "funeral."

To me, Data is still alive and kicking, and finding mouths on Troi's shoulder.

And just think how cool it would be if someone had stolen Lore from wherever he ended up, mildly reprogrammed him to think he's an older, dumber android named B-4, and then sold him to Shinzon and his Reman friends?

Probably not plausible, since Lore is techncially a bit more advanced than Data since emotions (namely jealousy, rage, and evil ambition) are part of his normal programming, he'd need a lot of work to be made to be simpler than even Data.

But we gotta stop talking plausible when it comes to sci-fi.

[Lurker 5]

Yea, well, I forgot about other countries not seeing the films for a while.  That's why there's things like the Internet and peer2peer services.

Unless of course this particular Trek fan chooses to see the film in the proper theatrical setting, as this boards Mr. Cosman certainly will do.

Neil

[Guest]

Seing the fulm in the properr theatrical setting is gud and all, but it also gives money back to the studios and only encrages them to keep making basd pieces of crap that they call movies which many people see to still turn out profit.

Take all cheapass horror movies that have come out over the past feew yaers. If cost $5 million to make and profit only $10 million, well, thats pretty bad box office return, biut it's profitable. The studios decide the formula works, people go see the next piece of crap movie and don't realize it sukked until after they come out of the theatre. Is why Star Trek Eleven will be worse than Ten until Paraomunt tdecides pull thep lgu.

I dont have fast connection, so cant donload movies, gota see in movie hause.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

Unless of course this particular Trek fan chooses to see the film in the proper theatrical setting, as this boards Mr. Cosman certainly will do.

And me.

But we gotta stop talking plausible when it comes to sci-fi.

Why?

Marian - who knows elementary particles were even named after their "twins" in Trek.

[Ren 75]

i'm pretty impressed about stefan's ability to refrain from posting when Joe asked. :spiny:

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I suppose to the casual Star Trek fan, with limited knowledge of Star Trek itself, or those with virtually no knowledge of Star Trek but still looking for a different film, might have enjoyed this picture, but I think that those with a passion about Star Trek are like me appalled. I think when Stefan finally sees this film he will be extremely disappointed, just as I was. Some of the problems are budgeting constraints, some were time constraints, but most were just a common problem of many films these days, and inadequate script. Its really sad that John Logan is held in high regard. I can only predict disaster with Lincoln. I should have seen it coming. This is after all the man responsible for the best/worst film of 2000, Gladiator.

Paramount is a studio in which I hold little faith. They completely bungled this picture, but it was so easy to have fixed certain parts.

1. Push the release date back to late Feb. or early March, when there are not alot of blockbusters lined up. Even the best Star Trek film would get lost among Harry Potter, LOTR, James Bond, Steven Spielberg, and all the other event films of the holiday season. Pure greed blinded them to the very goal of pure greed itself.

2. Paramounts continue goal that Star Trek must be made accessible to the public. Tailoring a film to the certain group always leads to a bad film. Instead try to make the best film possible based on the medium and material and its back stories. If you make a good film people are more likely to see it, not always, but you do improve your chances.

3. Damnit, Paramount, spend some bucks to make some bucks. Use ILM if there is a next time. Save some money on the stupid makeup effects. They were so concerned about wanting the audience to see through the Remen's ears, except they were always shot in such dark light that we couldn't see shit. Translucent mutated Vulcan ears are so damned exciting.

I certainly want to spend $7.00 to see that.

The way Paramount has dropped the ball on Star Trek it is good to know that they do not have complete coontrol of dvd releases of their biggest franchise. I can only hope that they will find a proper course for Star Trek in the future and restore one of the industries longest lived and most properious shows to its former glory.

[ocelot 508]

The whole movie sucked. The only thing I liked seeing was Janeway. Even in a silly cameo. And Voyager isn't even my favorite trek. TNG is!!!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think when Stefan finally sees this film he will be extremely disappointed, just as I was.  

Actually, I just saw it last night, and was surprised how good it was, better then I hoped.

Yes, it's recycled out of parts from the other films and TNG, but if I remember correctly, Star Trek: TMP is little more then a remake of The Changeling, while Wrath Of Khan is basicly Space Seed coupled with The Ballance Of Terror.

The acting was good, as always Stewart was outstanding, I liked the choice of villian, and the effects looked cool.

Stuart Baird's direction was solid and the action scenes were well done.

Jerry's music worked very well in the film.

I'm glad he used his Star Trek theme more then usual.

and i LOVED the cameo of a snippet of The Enterprise cue in the final scenes in the film.

The big surprise of Data's death was spoiled for me by some moron here on this MB.

So I knew about it, and I knew straight away that when they started finding body parts of another Soong android that they were gonna pull a "Katra" on us.

I did not mind, since it's almost a tradition in Trek to ressuect dead characters in some way (Spock, Yar, Dax)

He, it may not be the best film in the world, and it's not gonna win any awards, but I was absolutely entertaining for 2 hours.

I agree with Neil that this is the best Franschise film of 2002, better then AOTC, better then DAD, which I also liked.

Stefancos- who thinks it's a pity it will probably be the last Trek film.

Oh yeah, this is for the guy who was running the projector last night, sand turned of the film 3 seconds after the End Credits started playing.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

Actually, I just saw it last night, and was surprised how good it was, better then I hoped.

Yes, it's recycled out of parts from the other films and TNG, but if I remember correctly, Star Trek: TMP is little more then a remake of The Changeling, while Wrath Of Khan is basicly Space Seed coupled with The Ballance Of Terror.

(I consider WOK to be some sort of variation on Moby-Dick).

The acting was good, as always Stewart was outstanding, I liked the choice of villian, and the effects looked cool.

Stuart Baird's direction was solid and the action scenes were well done.

Jerry's music worked very well in the film.

I'm glad he used his Star Trek theme more then usual.

and i LOVED the cameo of a snippet of The Enterprise cue in the final scenes in the film.

:thumbup: (There seems to be a boot around already? Like Insurrection, this score seems to be far better as a whole than in it's album presentation)

The big surprise of Data's death was spoiled for me by some moron here on this MB.

Yes.

So I knew about it, and I knew straight away that when they started finding body parts of another Soong android that they were gonna pull a "Katra" on us.

I did not mind, since it's almost a tradition in Trek to ressuect dead characters in some way (Spock, Yar, Dax)

He, it may not be the best film in the world, and it's not gonna win any awards, but I was absolutely entertaining for 2 hours.

I agree with Neil that this is the best Franschise film of 2002, better then AOTC, better then DAD, which I also liked.

Stefancos- who thinks it's a pity it will probably be the last Trek film.  

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Oh yeah, this is for the guy who was running the projector last night, sand turned of the film 3 seconds after the End Credits started playing.

Marian - thinking about buying his own projector.

[Lurker 5]

I'm glad you liked it, Steef. Since you agreed with me on this, can I have my "Trekkie" status restored? Please?

Does this mean you have not heard the horribly edited end credits? I'll have to send you an mp3 I made of it. It may not be totally accurate, but it's got to be close.

Neil

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

The credits! The agony! That wonderful middle section on the CD...

[Morn 8]

Actually, I just saw it last night, and was surprised how good it was, better then I hoped.

Hmm... well then...

Yes, it's recycled out of parts from the other films and TNG, but if I remember correctly, Star Trek: TMP is little more then a remake of The Changeling, while Wrath Of Khan is basicly Space Seed coupled with The Ballance Of Terror.

Err, I think that's pushing it, I mean the battles in Khan are very different to The Ballance Of Terror, the only real simitarity is that they are having a ship to ship fight It's a sequel to Space Seed but the plot is not similar. You do have a point with The Changeling, but TMP took the concept to a new level. Nemesis just does the same thing others have done but worse.

The big surprise of Data's death was spoiled for me by some moron here on this MB.

I thought you never read threads on movies you haven't seen?

I agree with Neil that this is the best Franschise film of 2002, better then AOTC, better then DAD, which I also liked.

Maybe..... AOTC is not really a movie...... in the traditional sense. And DAD has some of the same flaws as Nemesis.

Stefancos- who thinks it's a pity it will probably be the last Trek film.  

I would agree with you, but... I saw Nemesis.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

I thought you never read threads on movies you haven't seen?

Threads change their topic. I think this one came up in a thread about the score or something....hard to avoid those.

Anyway, I was kinda expecting it, since Spiner wanted to be killed in #9 already.

Marian - who got DS9 Season 1 today.

E.T. (20th Anniversary)

[tpigeon 3]

OH MY GOD, Did That SUCK

I couldn't have put it better myself. Well I wouldn't say it sucked in caps and bold letters, but I definitely didn't think there was much to it. But it wasn't as bad as Die Another Day, which has to be the most boring James Bond film I have ever seen.

Ted

[Lurker 5]

OH MY GOD, Did That SUCK

I couldn't have put it better myself. Well I wouldn't say it sucked in caps and bold letters, but I definitely didn't think there was much to it. But it wasn't as bad as Die Another Day, which has to be the most boring James Bond film I have ever seen.

Ted

You must not have seen The Man With The Golden Gun.

Neil

[tpigeon 3]

OH MY GOD, Did That SUCK

I couldn't have put it better myself. Well I wouldn't say it sucked in caps and bold letters, but I definitely didn't think there was much to it. But it wasn't as bad as Die Another Day, which has to be the most boring James Bond film I have ever seen.

Ted

You must not have seen The Man With The Golden Gun.

Neil

It's been a while. It was pretty boring, but I was never irritated by it. I sat in the theater through Die Another Day bored by the non-action scenes and irritated by the action scenes. I felt every action scene was just a bunch of noise and no fun or tension for that matter. But perhaps I'm being to hard on it, since I think the volume in the thater was unreasonably loud. I only saw Man with the Golden Gun on my own television at a volume of my choice.

Ted