Jump to content

Howard Shore's The Battle of the Five Armies (Hobbit Part 3)


Jay

Recommended Posts

Isn't that second theme for Gandalf more specific though, not just alternating with the primary idea heard most often in these scores merely for variety's sake?

It's more a theme for the wizards as a collective.

- And on unrelated note: I think what people call Gandal's secondary theme (the one that appears for example when Gandalf leaves the Company at the Trollshaws or when he shows up at Goblintown) might actually be a theme for the Istari. I mean, it first appears when Gandalf is talking about Radagast, and the character appears on screen. So I say that's possible. Thoughts?

Ha!

Well interpreted BB.

Although it feels like a very broad meaning for such a specific and indeed sparsely used idea that always appears with Gandalf and never connects with any of the other wizards apart from the brief monologue Gandy has of the Five Wizards and by the time Radagast appears the score moves to his themes. I don't think there is much Istari-related subtextually in any of the scenes it then appears apart from Gandalf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First appearance of the theme: Gandalf is talking about the Five Wizards.

Second appearance of the theme: Gandalf is being grumpy, a common trait of wizards.

Third appearance of the theme: Gandalf is doing wizard stuff, something only wizards can do.

There you go!

Wow definitely some Istari vibe in there. Well and broadly connected BB. Well done!

In BotFA Gandalf is sitting and interacting with Bilbo, definitely something only wizards would do.

I'll call it Gandalf's Vague Wizardness Theme from now on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jim is correct.

Why would a theme for wizards as a collective play when Gandalf decides to leave the company being Thorin is being a douche?

For the same reason a theme for Rivendell Elves as a whole plays when Elrond gives Aragorn a sword.

The score often takes a broader perspective than the film does, which is why it's able to deal with subtexts, etc. rather than just slavishly repeating what we see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed the score has a broader subtextual view but I am really interested to know how thematic material running underneath only Gandalf's actions can be interpreted as music for the wizards as a collective. I know the first time it plays establishes this kind of hint or link to the wizards as a whole but subsequently there isn't much connection to the other wizards or Istari in general, at least I can't somehow see it as a subtext in the way BloodBoal explained above. It becomes very broad interpretation indeed if the idea of wizards is reflected by this theme when it only applies to Gandalf throughout the rest of the story. Unless we haven't heard or noticed every occurrence of it in the subsequent films.

I think we are debating this because Shore's music often is if not dublicating what we see, enhancing it subtextually in a highly logical way and in this case the subtext seems very very broad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The text is about Radagast.

Also, I asked the composer. :)

In The Hobbit, many (most?) characters receive a personal theme and a cultural theme. This was true of Bilbo (initially), of Bard, of Thorin, of Tauriel ... and it's true of Gandalf.

For whatever reason, the decision was made to downplay the other Wizards' musical identities. Some of Radagast's secondary material returned in an early draft of BOFA, but it never made it to the recording floor; Saruman's theme was never slated to reappear after its initial cameo. So this Istari theme simply ended up with Gandalf most of the time. It absolutely applies to him, so it's entirely appropriate, but it's not quite as direct and contained as his personal theme.

Indeed the score has a broader subtextual view but I am really interested to know how thematic material running underneath only Gandalf's actions can be interpreted as music for the wizards as a collective. I know the first time it plays establishes this kind of hint or link to the wizards as a whole but subsequently there isn't much connection to the other wizards or Istari in general, at least I can't somehow see it as a subtext in the way BloodBoal explained above. It becomes very broad interpretation indeed if the idea of wizards is reflected by this theme when it only applies to Gandalf throughout the rest of the story. Unless we haven't heard or noticed every occurrence of it in the subsequent films.

I think we are debating this because Shore's music often is if not dublicating what we see, enhancing it subtextually in a highly logical way and in this case the subtext seems very very broad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you think there are any scenes in DOS or BOFA that would have been a cool spot to use the Istari theme?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you think there are any scenes in DOS or BOFA that would have been a cool spot to use the Istari theme?

I suppose the climactic face-off with the Necromancer could have used it (all three Wizards were present), but it's always a question of perspective, of course. And Galadriel's material might have been lost in the mix.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope that scene plays better in the upcoming extended edition of the film

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The text is about Radagast.

Also, I asked the composer. :)

In The Hobbit, many (most?) characters receive a personal theme and a cultural theme. This was true of Bilbo (initially), of Bard, of Thorin, of Tauriel ... and it's true of Gandalf.

For whatever reason, the decision was made to downplay the other Wizards' musical identities. Some of Radagast's secondary material returned in an early draft of BOFA, but it never made it to the recording floor; Saruman's theme was never slated to reappear after its initial cameo. So this Istari theme simply ended up with Gandalf most of the time. It absolutely applies to him, so it's entirely appropriate, but it's not quite as direct and contained as his personal theme.

Indeed the score has a broader subtextual view but I am really interested to know how thematic material running underneath only Gandalf's actions can be interpreted as music for the wizards as a collective. I know the first time it plays establishes this kind of hint or link to the wizards as a whole but subsequently there isn't much connection to the other wizards or Istari in general, at least I can't somehow see it as a subtext in the way BloodBoal explained above. It becomes very broad interpretation indeed if the idea of wizards is reflected by this theme when it only applies to Gandalf throughout the rest of the story. Unless we haven't heard or noticed every occurrence of it in the subsequent films.

I think we are debating this because Shore's music often is if not dublicating what we see, enhancing it subtextually in a highly logical way and in this case the subtext seems very very broad.

Fair enough. I can't argue with the composer's vision and ideas. Community of Wizards theme it is. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's the Wizarding World Of Gandalf The Grey theme.

:thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. Speaking of wizards, Doug - was the fight between Elrond and Saruman and the Nazgul scored? I'm guessing it would have been, though you've probably answered my question as to whether some kind action-y, heroic version of the Isengard theme was employed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. Speaking of wizards, Doug - was the fight between Elrond and Saruman and the Nazgul scored? I'm guessing it would have been, though you've probably answered my question as to whether some kind action-y, heroic version of the Isengard theme was employed.

I don't think it was scored.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The choral music works quite nicely IMO.

What needed scoring was the Gandalf/Thrain/Sauron fight!

It's tracked though.

I'm very surprised to hear it wasn't scored. Did Jackson initially plan for silence and then decide he wanted music when it was too late?

It wasn't?!

The album track Guardians of the Three is almost complete, though not chronological.

This doesn't exactly give me much hope for the extended cut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saruman's theme was never slated to reappear after its initial cameo.

I was so hoping for a heroic statement of the Isengard theme during the Guardians of the Three scene... :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We know Shore crammed an awful lot of themes into the scene already so they might have cut back on the development of the other wizards' thematic material in these scores and so Isengard theme, which inarguably is linked to Saruman's later more sinister industrial/military activities, might never have been on the table when the themes for this scene were discussed. The appearance of the motif in AUJ was just a bit of ominous foreshadowing. Heroic appearance might have been tad too much for this scene, as cool as it would have been.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Interesting! Is this the closest we've had to a suggestion that we will in fact be getting more music released from The Hobbit? Not sure what else it could be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

YEAH!

He said "Releases" Incy.

I took that as any Hobbit related releases, whether they are music related or not. But I am all the happier if there are more than one score related releases in the horizon. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can imagine us getting a 2 disc set like the Star Wars Anthology Disc Four with the extra music on from the 3 films that were missing from the special edition OST's. I can't see them doing complete recording sets like Lord of the Rings, although that would make me very very happy if they did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.