SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 10 Years ago... Chris Tilton hated LOTR, just as he probably does now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 If there were to be a book, I imagine it would only deal with the score as Shore originally intended it. If there were to be a book.Sure, but... What he originally wrote in his first sketch? The first orchestrated sheets? The first recording, with podium changes?For example, in DOS, for the scene where Thorin is pleading to The Master, there's a scene where Bilbo steps forward and stands up for him. Shore scored it with The Shire Theme. The scene ended up being removed from the Theatrical Cut, so that Shire Theme bit was never recorded. But then PJ decided to put the scene back into the Extended Edition. Sadly, that Shire theme variation wasn't recorded for the EE (since there was so separate EE recordings).So anyway, would a hypothetical book even mention that Shore intended that scene - which we all see every time we watch the EE, the theoretical "definitive" version of the film - to be scored by The Shire Theme? Or gloss over it because it was never recorded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 If there were to be a book, I imagine it would only deal with the score as Shore originally intended it. If there were to be a book."The Hobbit....or the Hobbit as it should have been." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 He also decided to use Gondor Reborn...so he'd get us to buy his book for the explanations.No need. I've worked it out:Who was leading the drama in that scene? Thorin.What do you get when you combine "Thorin" with "Gondor"? Thorondor.Who brought the company to the Carrock? The EaglesWho was the greatest of the Eagles? Thorondor.TL;DR: It's Thorondor's theme!Wow. You've cracked it my lad! I mean you're cracked!If there were to be a book, I imagine it would only deal with the score as Shore originally intended it. If there were to be a book.Sure, but... What he originally wrote in his first sketch? The first orchestrated sheets? The first recording, with podium changes?For example, in DOS, for the scene where Thorin is pleading to The Master, there's a scene where Bilbo steps forward and stands up for him. Shore scored it with The Shire Theme. The scene ended up being removed from the Theatrical Cut, so that Shire Theme bit was never recorded. But then PJ decided to put the scene back into the Extended Edition. Sadly, that Shire theme variation wasn't recorded for the EE (since there was so separate EE recordings).So anyway, would a hypothetical book even mention that Shore intended that scene - which we all see every time we watch the EE, the theoretical "definitive" version of the film - to be scored by The Shire Theme? Or gloss over it because it was never recorded?What will the approach be if Doug deals with the music as originally written by Shore? We don't have CRs so the end result will be trickier as you can't anchor the analysis on the complete scores. So will it be "as heard in the film without the tracking" or "as it is heard on the soundtrack releases", which are incomplete because they contain only the music chosen for album and not everything written originally by Shore for the Theatrical films and EE editions. The book can't just be massively extended liner notes for the Special Edition soundtracks, can they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 If... Of course 'If', there's been no 'official' announcement.Shore originally intended something else for the Eagle flight in AUJ, but the reprised material in BOTFA makes things more tricky!Why?If Jackson asked for a rescore in AUJ, Shore most likely didn't even bother doing something else for BOTFA, and kept it because of consistency.But that group is not big enough to justify releasing CRs!The sooner you accept that, the better!We'll just have to make do with shitty rear channels rips to get unreleased music... :( :( :(Oh please! Scores with far less of a following have received expanded treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 But we are so entitled to it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 If... Of course 'If', there's been no 'official' announcement.Shore originally intended something else for the Eagle flight in AUJ, but the reprised material in BOTFA makes things more tricky!Why?If Jackson asked for a rescore in AUJ, Shore most likely didn't even bother doing something else for BOTFA, and kept it because of consistency.But that group is not big enough to justify releasing CRs!The sooner you accept that, the better!We'll just have to make do with shitty rear channels rips to get unreleased music... :( :( :(Oh please! Scores with far less of a following have received expanded treatment.Yeah, these scores might not have had the same resonance with the public but there's definitely enough of a market to justify complete recordings or even a 2-3 disc set featuring the missing cues and alternates. At this point in 2004 what was being said and or done about the CRs for LotR? Genuine question as I'm too young to remember properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 The FotR CR came out in November/December 2005 so I think there was already some preparation going on as these things usually move rather slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Fair enough I'm still not overly worried though. The extended edition of BofFA hasn't even been released yet. I'd have been very surprised if there had been any discussion on the topic at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 But that group is not big enough to justify releasing CRs!The sooner you accept that, the better!We'll just have to make do with shitty rear channels rips to get unreleased music... :( :( :(Oh please! Scores with far less of a following have received expanded treatment. But these scores hadn't received a 2-disc special edition treatment, with about two thirds of the music in it.Sure, Doug may be begging the Warner execs to release the complete scores, but they're probably thinking: "Complete scores? Wait, didn't we already release those? You know, these 2 discs things. We said they included the complete score on the sticker. Was it not true? But then, wouldn't doing another release with more music be like admitting that we lied to the consumers? Let's not do that... Just finish your book, take the money and run."A two to three disc release around the same time as the book called "The Hobbit: the Rarities Archive" would do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 At this point I'd be happy with that as long as it contained everything we're missing on. You could create complete scores on your computer with them that way. It might be the best we can hope for but if films like the Last Starfighter can get expanded releases I think a $2.5 billion franchise can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 If we don't hear/get something by the end of next year I'll start to worry. But I imagine around that time we might see this fabled six-film super box set, so there could be some legs in this franchise yet in Warner's eyes. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 If Doug's book comes out and there's no proper talk of CRs I'll then relinquish my hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Awww nuts The Last Starfighter I forgot to buy that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,684 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I think CRs are unlikely. Shore was given a chance for the first release to demonstrate his original intentions, and he took it with 2 discs. He had the chance to put more music on there and he didn't, so my conclusion is that that's all Shore feels he wants out there.IMO the only chance we've got for additional music is a potential rarities CD or isolated scores. I'd be rather surprised if they didn't put something together for Doug's book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 If there were to be a book, I imagine it would only deal with the score as Shore originally intended it. If there were to be a book.Sure, but... What he originally wrote in his first sketch? The first orchestrated sheets? The first recording, with podium changes?For example, in DOS, for the scene where Thorin is pleading to The Master, there's a scene where Bilbo steps forward and stands up for him. Shore scored it with The Shire Theme. The scene ended up being removed from the Theatrical Cut, so that Shire Theme bit was never recorded. But then PJ decided to put the scene back into the Extended Edition. Sadly, that Shire theme variation wasn't recorded for the EE (since there was so separate EE recordings).So anyway, would a hypothetical book even mention that Shore intended that scene - which we all see every time we watch the EE, the theoretical "definitive" version of the film - to be scored by The Shire Theme? Or gloss over it because it was never recorded?Early sketches were sometimes written to rough footage, or even away from picture. Podium changes were often made to accommodate last-minute changes. Early orchestrated version are almost invariably the best to look at. These show Shore's initial intentions and colors as they relate to the final scene's structure, but before filmmaker revisions.In the scene you're mentioning, Shore largely approached it from the EE edit. The Shire snippet was only ever a part of the early sketch--it was not a part of the orchestrated composition. That means Shore decided to remove the theme before the sessions were held. Returning that theme to the scene was a filmmaker decision, not a composer decision, so it wouldn't be discussed. And you know ... if I ever really got in a jam, I could always just text Howard and ask him. That helps too. Incanus and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 But that group is not big enough to justify releasing CRs!The sooner you accept that, the better!We'll just have to make do with shitty rear channels rips to get unreleased music... :( :( :(Oh please! Scores with far less of a following have received expanded treatment.But these scores hadn't received a 2-disc special edition treatment, with about two thirds of the music in it.Closest thing would be A.I. wouldn't it? but that was not an official release so it does not count.At this point I'd be happy with that as long as it contained everything we're missing on.I'm not sure you could fit everything we're missing on 2 discs (or even 3), because if you were to include some of the stuff that was microedited on the OSTs, then you'd have to include some cues that were already of the OSTs (for example, to include the big Company's theme statement that was microedited from Brass Buttons, you'd have to include the complete escape from Goblintown cue). I guess it all depends on how much unused material there was.Well, you could always do what the LOTR rarities did and microedit bits that were already presented on CD...On the upside, the newest version of Audacity has an updated version of it's center pan remover that attempts to retain the stereo field, so I should be able to get unreleased music from the EE documentaries in a sort of true stereo.For the interested, here is a comparison of the difference between the new center remover with stereo preservation vs, the old remover with fake stereo:https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9UklVd3plTmZzU3M/view?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Is that an alternate/longer version of The Edge of The Wild?It's not, It's something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Where did you find that Faleel? I've always wondered. Beautiful piece.Pretty sure it's a 'The World is Ahead' alternate SUH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Mr. Breathmask 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Where did you find that Faleel? I've always wondered. Beautiful piece.Pretty sure it's a 'The World is Ahead' alternate SUH.Production Diaries/EE Documentaries.And It's not, its too short for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Well, there goes your hope, SUH and MedigoScan!@earlcarvalho I'm afraid no Hobbit CRs are in the planning stages at this time. Doesn't mean they'll never happen, but no motion yet. Doug Adams (@DougAdamsMusic) 16 Octobre 2015Well, fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Where did you find that Faleel? I've always wondered. Beautiful piece.Pretty sure it's a 'The World is Ahead' alternate SUH.Production Diaries/EE Documentaries.And It's not, its too short for one.I don't meant the whole track btw - just from where the Company theme starts playing. Should just about fit no? I thought you'd tried it before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I tried using it in the opening of White Council, Jay said "not where it goes!", I put it in The World is Ahead, and the transition from the OST music and the unused sounded awful, I tried it in The Edge of the Wild, and the tense part came a little too early (not to mention the lack of the MM Company theme).Also a reliable source said its not for any of those (World and Wild), scenes, though it wouldn't say where it was supposed to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Could it be possible that the transition as heard on the OST was originally quite different?It must be scoring a journey montage of some sort surely? Maybe there was another scene of travelling shots removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Well here are likely spots for traveling shots/music removed:Hobbiton to Night CampNight camp to Deluge sceneRadagast to Abandoned FarmhouseRivendell to Misty Mountains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 It from the scene in AUJ where the Company approaches the farmhouse--before Gandalf and Thorin argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,346 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 BTW Doug I have a question, was the bit of Thorin's theme at the end of the Special Edition version of Moon Runes intended for that spot? or was it an additional opening that was replaced with a new opening so the cue could be started later in the footage?And is the standard version of Old Friends with the Fireworks music an alternate for Bilbo talking about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now