gkgyver 1,645 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Poe could have made the Hobbit scripts badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 13 hours ago, BloodBoal said: I'd rather have The Hobbit Complete Re-Recordings than The Hobbit Complete Recordings, all recorded, orchestrated and mixed the same way. It's funny that, with LOTR, Shore was adamant on keeping the same recording and mixing techniques on all three scores to have a unified sound throughout the trilogy, even though there were technological evolutions/changes in the way music was recorded recorded throughout the 3 years he worked on these scores (I think they mention that in one of the documentaries or one of the liners notes of the OSTs), yet with The Hobbit, it seems they threw that idea out of the window pretty quickly. Of course, they pretend they did everything to have DOS and BOFA sound exactly like if they had been recorded at Abbey Road, to have the same sound as AUJ, but let's face it, those two scores sound nothing like the first one. I wonder how Shore feels about the sound of these scores. Did he approve it? I'd have a hard time believing that. Some cues sound too dry, others sound too wet, others just sound like shit... Kickstarter for re-recordings now! And the key fact regarding their "attempt" to preserve the same sound in DOS and BOTFA, and the failure to do so, is that it had already been done successfully ten years earlier with the Moria sequence. Who could truly say that there's a notable difference there between the NZSO and the LPO, and the recording spaces involved? I can't. There's extreme sonic continuity. This time around though... same alternate orchestra, same alternate space, same engineers... what was the main difference, and isn't it likely that said main difference is the cause of much of the discontinuity in sound, as well as a seemingly fragmented leadership and resultant sloppiness in the music department as a whole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 I'd say a major factor is the non-involvement of John Kurlander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 13 hours ago, leeallen01 said: This is not a leeallen post. Well, there also Watertower music, which is apparently notorious for bad mixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 5 hours ago, gkgyver said: I'd say a major factor is the non-involvement of John Kurlander. For some of the alterations in sound, possibly. Pete Cobbin is no stranger to Middle-Earth either. Parts of BOTFA sound less like "different approaches" to the sound, and more like plain old crappy rush jobs, likely due to shit schedules. DOS doesn't sound bad, but it is different, and I think those differences can be accounted for by.... The conducting, I feel, along with the preparation of the conductor's score and individual parts. So, what other word am I avoiding.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Can't we just cut to the chase and blame everyone's favourite Bishop of Rome again? It's much easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 10 hours ago, TheWhiteRider said: For some of the alterations in sound, possibly. Pete Cobbin is no stranger to Middle-Earth either. Parts of BOTFA sound less like "different approaches" to the sound, and more like plain old crappy rush jobs, likely due to shit schedules. DOS doesn't sound bad, but it is different, and I think those differences can be accounted for by.... The conducting, I feel, along with the preparation of the conductor's score and individual parts. So, what other word am I avoiding.... Don't blame Poe, he's dead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Hopefully Shore has removed and corrected the orchestations made by Pope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 And Sizemore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 On 9/8/2016 at 8:04 PM, Fennel Ka said: @Jim Ware Jim Ware, any clue as to what these cues are? https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9YjVDNHAtRDIzZTg/view?usp=sharing Since this got buried a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 No, it didn't. It's just that nobody seems to care. Barnald 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Jim Ware and Evanus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Who else loves the use of the "An Ancient Enemy" theme in the beginning of "Ravenhill"? And the soft vocal rendition of the Laketown theme at the end of "The Darkest Hour" is so eerily beautiful. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I also love how the DOS soundtrack and the first half or so of the BOTFA soundtrack have this neat exotic feel that we haven't heard before in a Middle Earth film. Then the second half of the BOFTA soundtrack begins to seamlessly change into the style and feel of the music of LOTR. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 You think the second half of the BOFA OST sounds like LOTR? To me its the furthest from it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 Right, that's what I mean. The final 2 film cues are fine, but the majority of the score is nothing like how Shore would have scored a similar battle (if one existed) in LOTR, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 43 minutes ago, Jay said: You think the second half of the BOFA OST sounds like LOTR? To me its the furthest from it! Well, maybe not quite the last half of the OST, perhaps the last third or so. I'm not talking about the battle music, I agree, it doesn't sound much like LOTR. I would say the music after the battle music sounds very much like LOTR, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted April 26, 2017 Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 OK, that makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I'd exchange Sons of Durin for Fire and Water in that list, though I am very partial to the beginning and end of Mithril. Love the first couple of minutes or so of Battle for the Mountain also. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,287 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2017 Fire and Water is easily my favorite track without question Bilbo, SafeUnderHill and The Illustrious Jerry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Fire and Water Sons of Durin Ironfoot SafeUnderHill and The Illustrious Jerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post John 2,032 Posted May 25, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2017 Fire and Water Sons of Durin Courage and Wisdom Evanus, SafeUnderHill and The Illustrious Jerry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Let's try this again...@Jim Ware @Doug Adams Could you tell us where in the score these bits of music are from?https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxQSwI5aPja9SjRmV29IcktmRzg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Looks like I was able to place one of them @Jim Ware @Jay @Barnald @KK @SUH @Bilbo @Incanus...https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JE_HJTEQhgu172TOhlb5rhoZC6nBvZMl Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted October 6, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 6, 2018 On May 24, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Jay said: Fire and Water is easily my favorite track without question Yes, I'm quoting a year old post, but it's still relevant and I wasn't around then to say this. Fire and Water is such an amazing track (an extended version would be lovely). Smaug's theme enters as the logos appear, and picks up as the film does so too. I love the woodwind flourishes (if you know the track you know what I mean), the Bilbo's theme? when Bard looks at his son at that fateful moment, the way Smaugs theme is extinguished in unison with the character, the heroic Erebor theme, which marks the first time the dwarves are able to enter the mountain safely. Ironfoot Guardians of the Three Sons of Durin are my other favorites. Looks like I'm going to listen to BotFA today! Bofur01, Smaug The Iron and Chen G. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 27 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: , the Bilbo's theme Its Bard's family theme. Its kind of between Bilbo's theme and the Master's theme. Makes sense: the Shire material (hence Bilbo's, too) is designed to evoke homeliness, and so too does the theme of Bard's family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 9 hours ago, Falafel said: Looks like I was able to place one of them @Jim Ware @Jay @Barnald @KK @SUH @Bilbo @Incanus...https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JE_HJTEQhgu172TOhlb5rhoZC6nBvZMl I have no insight into accurate placement of BOFA music, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 44 minutes ago, Jay said: I have no insight into accurate placement of BOFA music, unfortunately. Ah well, enjoy the video anyway Thankfully this seems to be obviously correct (You can hear the reverb tail of the last note in the film rip) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Chen G. said: Its Bard's family theme. Its kind of between Bilbo's theme and the Master's theme. Makes sense: the Shire material (hence Bilbo's, too) is designed to evoke homeliness, and so too does the theme of Bard's family. Isn't the Family theme the same theme from Dreaming of Bag End? It sounds very similar. Jerry Breakdown Fire and Water 0:00 Opens with mysterious and majestic chiming percussion 0:18 The first hints of Smaug's theme- Smaug pending 0:23 Smaug's theme sweeps through the string section 1:03 The orchestra picks up, Smaug's theme in wonderful rendition 1:19 The Master's theme- a nice and simple Baroque feel to it 1:29 Strings take over again, but a bombastic brass statement overpowers at 1:34 1:50 Smaug's theme starts to take wing, but interludes into Girion's theme 2:01 In the Desolation of Smaug bonus features we find that Peter Jackson requested a more oriental feel to Smaug's theme. Shore went to Asia and used Gamelan instruments to add an ethnic flair. See here, a great video on the score of The Desolation of Smaug. 2:30 Probably my favourite moment of the track, complete with flute flourishes. 2:40 Smaug's theme with clashing percussion. 2:51 The rushing harp weaving through here is brilliant. 3:07 Girion- powerful statement. 3:23 Bard's theme. 3:34 Beautiful Bard's family theme- great vocalic usage. 3:55 One last dash of Smaug. 4:13 The arrow. 4:28 Powerful and triumphant. 4:44 Smaug's theme is extinguished, but will linger on with the dragon sickness. 5:40 Erebor- the mountain is theirs. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 510 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 21 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: 1:50 Smaug's theme starts to take wing, but interludes into the Erebor theme 22 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: 3:07 Erebor- powerful statement That is not the Erebor Theme, it is Girion's Theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Thanks @Smaug the iron. Post updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 1 hour ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: Isn't the Family theme the same theme from Dreaming of Bag End? It sounds very similar. No. Dreaming of Bag End features two of Bilbo's themes: The Baggins theme, and the Tookish side theme. Bard's family is quite similar, being that both themes are meant to be homely, and as Shore himself remarked, Laketown's soundscape shares The Shire's English sound. I believe Jackson's direction to Shore was "music for 17th century pirates in Cornwall." Bard's Family is kind of halfway between the Baggins theme and the Master's - Bard's family life being the thing that anchors him in the face of greed, unlike the Master. 1 hour ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: 0:18 The first hints of Smaug's theme- Smaug pending The liner notes often refer to these chords, which often appear on their own and serve their own thematic purpose. They are to Smaug's theme what the Hobbit accompaniment motifs are to the Hobbiton theme. I like the name Dragon Breath motif for them. 1 hour ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: 2:01 In the Desolation of Smaug bonus features we find that Peter Jackson requested a more oriental feel to Smaug's theme. Shore went to Asia and used Gamelan instruments to add an ethnic flair. See here, a great video on the score of The Desolation of Smaug. The gamelan (which is the percussion you keep referring to) is only part of Smaug's oriental palette. There are also Shakuhachi (in 1:03), dizi, rebab (you can see in the production diary in 7:08), tanpura, tibetan bowls and bells and on and on - instruments that the Gamelan Orchestra that they turned to happened to have. Some eastern instruments used in other parts of the score (Tabla for the Woodland Realm, for instance) also came from the Gamelan Orchestra's storage. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 10/6/2018 at 5:46 AM, Falafel said: Looks like I was able to place one of them @Jim Ware @Jay @Barnald @KK @SUH @Bilbo @Incanus...https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JE_HJTEQhgu172TOhlb5rhoZC6nBvZMl Looks accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I have a small question maybe Doug or Jim or someone else could answer - if the music near the end of Sons of Durin was indeed intended for the Balin-Dwalin exchange and thus tracked for the 'Will you follow me, one last time?' scene, was anything actually composed for that scene in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Jim Ware said: Looks accurate. Cool, thanks. Now just to figure out where that dramatic statement (0:25-end of the video below) of Bard's theme goes!https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxQSwI5aPja9SjRmV29IcktmRzg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUH 65 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Came across this making of ‘The Last Goodbye’ video. Does this come from the Appendices? I don’t recall seeing this before. Enjoyed watching it! A couple of interesting things I noticed in the video: There was someone on set playing flute with Billy, when they were shooting Pippin’s song in ROTK. I’m curious who that person is and why they have a flute! (2:45) Billy came up with the initial melody the night before filming that scene! And interestingly you can hear how it had the same shape and rhythm, but different notes. They must have gone on to improve it for the ADR sessions. The Last Goodbye went through several different iterations, and I think the worked paid off. I find the song closes off the series in a very fitting way. Howard Shore actually suggested they use Victoria Kelly for the orchestrations and arrangement (5:25). I had assumed Shore wasn’t asked to be involved with the writing or orchestration of the Hobbit songs. As Doug mentioned previously, he did have some oversight of this song but declined to be credited on it. This is from Kelly’s website: https://victoriakellymusic.com/2016/09/04/the-last-goodbye/ Quote It was a wonderful thing to collaborate on this song with Fran Walsh, Billy Boyd & Stephen Gallagher… I found myself doing mad and previously unimaginable things, like chatting with Howard Shore on the phone and recording (remotely) in Abbey Road Studio No.2 with Peter Cobbin and Kirsty Whalley at the helm. Quote I began working on the arrangement and, soon after, Billy came up to Auckland where we spent a day with some wonderful musicians at Roundhead studios (Nigel Gavin / mandolin & percussion, Justine Cormack / violin), laying down ideas and putting together demos. A couple of weeks later – after travel back and forth between Auckland and Wellington – I finally found myself in the midst of the most extraordinary recording session of my life. I was at Park Road Post in Wellington in the company of Fran Walsh, Peter Jackson, Stephen Gallagher, Billy Boyd, Peter Cobbin and Kirsty Whalley, remotely recording the London Symphony Orchestra who were in Abbey Road, while Howard Shore listened in via Skype from New York. And we had a real, actual Dulcimer player. Outrageous! 1 Nice to see them back at Abbey Road with the LSO! The music video was nicely put together too - I wonder how cool it would be for a LOTR fan to have seen this before seeing the Hobbit movies. Say we could go back to 2010 and show it someone, I imagine they would be rather excited for the new trilogy! Jay and JWMike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 1 hour ago, SUH said: Nice to see them back at Abbey Road with the LSO! I'd imagine that's a mistake on Kelly's part. The London Symphony Orchestra never recorded these films: it was the Philharmonic. For the end-credits songs - both this and "Song of the Lonely Mountain" - I believe a freelance orchestra named "London Metropolitan Orchestra" was used. JWMike and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,301 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 How much unreleased music exists for BOTFA? I found a complete cue breakdown for AUJ and all its unreleased music, but couldn't find an equivalent for this film. I know this score is significantly shorter than the two that preceded it, but surely there's some unreleased stuff there. Thorin's funeral being an obvious first example (as an EE scene, I doubt it was recorded with the rest of the score... or was it?) Also the Thorin theme source on horn, after the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Some of Fire and Water is definitely unreleased. It’s longer in the film . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Yes. And it also dials out one of the best sections! Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 There is quite a bit of unreleased music, some less interesting than others. There are edits out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Great edits by great people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Except that one edit by that one guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 1 hour ago, crumbs said: (as an EE scene, I doubt it was recorded with the rest of the score... or was it?) Also the Thorin theme source on horn, after the battle. I seem to recall Thorin's funeral was recorded specifically for the Extended Edition, yes. The diegetic Erebor theme: what's the problem of ripping that from the film? There's nothing else in the soundscape of that scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Regarding Fire and Water - I hope Jim Ware won't mind me sharing this PM from a few years back: Quote This sequence (up to Smaug's death) was a good two and a half minutes longer when scored. A significant amount of music was dialled out in the final cut. I can't recall if the EE restored any of this, but certainly it wouldn't have been 2 and a half minutes worth of footage (the added bit with Bard can't have been more than 30 seconds - I get the impression this must have included the destruction of the windlance, and the decision not to restore this particular sequence remains inexplicable). So when you add that to the unreleased music from the film, we could be looking at a fairly substantial chunk. Doug has also suggested that there was quite a bit of music for the chariot chase sequence which wasn't featured in the EE. Chen G. and Holko 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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