Howard Shore's The Battle of the Five Armies (Hobbit Part 3)

[Jay 37,355]

I don't think it's the best of the three.

AUJ has what are my favorite themes

DOS has a huge palette of themes that balance really well, but little narrative throughline

BOFA has amazing action music and some emotional resonance

All the LOTR scores are better than all the TH scores.

[Faleel 5,347]

Not saying I think it likely of course.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,347]

I don't think it's the best of the three.

AUJ has what are my favorite themes

DOS has a huge palette of themes that balance really well, but little narrative throughline

BOFA has amazing action music and some emotional resonance

All the LOTR scores are better than all the TH scores.

But that statement of the Erebor theme in Sons of Durin gives the best of LOTR a run for its money IMHO.

[Barnald 365]

Jay would you mind me starting a thread on TORN discussing this palantir thing based on your hint on what that last part of 'Thrain' is supposed to have scored?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

I have to listen to it more, but it's very possible for this to be my favourite of the trilogy. Yes it's the most action-oriented of the entire saga, but that's because it scores a picture that's just about war. But it has the same appeal that RotK had for me, and that's how Shore plays around with his themes. This score just goes to the extent Shore goes to craft his thematic moments. So many references, so many variations, etc etc.

Needs more listens. I'll make my final judgement upon the completion of Shore Middle-Earth marathon.

[Barnald 365]

Jay would you mind me starting a thread on TORN discussing this palantir thing based on your hint on what that last part of 'Thrain' is supposed to have scored?

What? You don't want to discuss that with us? Well, that's nice...

We've discussed it already

[Faleel 5,347]

It will be interesting to see if the LPO ever does any re-recordings of DOS/BOTFA music

[Jay 37,355]

Oh, another thing - No Gollum's theme at all, thankfully. I haven't been following the movie spoilers, but it appears he won't be in the film, which is great.

Sad that there's only that ONE track with any of Lothlorien, Rivendell, etc material. I can't believe PJ relegated that whole subplot to a single scene payoff!

No Radagast theme at all. Sigh.

[Faleel 5,347]

Barely Radagast at all. Sigh.

Fixed.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Sad that there's only that ONE track with any of Lothlorien, Rivendell, etc material. I can't believe PJ relegated that whole subplot to a single scene payoff!

Yeah, it's absurd isn't it? Each film had more Dol Goldur time than this one, and barely anything happens...it was just useless meandering and bloat. But we were all lead to believe it would payoff in the third film. But it sounds like it was just one fight scene, and bam, it's done!

[Jay 37,355]

Very lame.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Yeah. It might be the statement of new theme, or maybe the House of Durin statement in the 3rd cue?

[Jay 37,355]

Wasn't paying attention for that

I did listen to the Guardians of the Three and one thing I noticed (apart from the familiar Lothlorien/Galadriel and Rivendell/Elrond themes) was that towards the end of the track there's a recurrence of the same few notes used in FotR right after Galadriel comes out of her "nuclear" mode.

True or false?

Just went back to check this out and yup, it does remind of that bit from FOTR! Really cool!

[KK 3,307]

I love how he plays with Gandalf's theme in the cue.

Are you guys referring to the cluster at the end? Any timestamps?

[Jay 37,355]

Fire and Water is freaking awesome. Smaug's Theme sounds amazing. This SHOULD have been the final scene / final score cue in DOS!

Any timestamps?

The timestamp was posted twice on this page! 5:01.

[KK 3,307]

Woops, missed it.

And you're comparing that to 4:40?

Or 4:25-ish?

Either way, I don't think it's a reference.

It's a lovely cluster though.

[Jay 37,355]

You're nuts. It's a direct reference. I'm sure it's when Galadriel returns to normal in the new scene.

You have the FOTR timestamps wrong. It's at 4:54 of The Mirror Of Galadriel on the CR (per that youtube video)

[KK 3,307]

Ahh, I thought you were referring to the choral cluster at 5:01, not the descending phrase that follows.

Yeah, I hear it. Neat!

[Alex Shore 83]

What a great piece is "Guardians of the Three" and yes, near the end 5:00 I can hear some chords of "The Power Of Galadriel Theme" ( from the Mirror of Galadriel scene from FOTR)

PS: Hahahahaha, we hear the same!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

I love the reprise of DoS choral climax for Smaug's death.

By the way, does anyone else think there are some microedits in the first cue?

[Jay 37,355]

Wow, listening to The Guardians of The Three again - do I hear The Fall of Man?

[KK 3,307]

Which one is that again?

Am I the only who thinks 3:17 in Beyond Sorrow and Grief sounds a bit Star Trek-ish? Just a tiny bit.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SF1_freeze 131]

Sorry to rain on the parade... Sadly i don't really like the score. Weak thematic material throughout. It doesnt' help that i hate Smaugs themes and can't care less for the other DOS material. And don't get me started on the subpar Laketown theme. The best material are the old LOTR trilogy themes, House of Durin and the occasional Tauriel statement. The best moment overall is the Good Omen Eagle motif.

The action stuff is all over the place. No structure, no longer running developments... it's a very exhausting listen. Many of the stuff is also too dark for my taste.

The best themes of the whole hobbit trilogy just dissappeared after the first soundtrack and never returned...

Where is the fantastic Erebor theme/ Edge of the Wild (probably Shores original company theme)? Where is the great Dwarf Lords theme? I expected to hear it here!! No Misty Mountains or Bilbo's theme either. What a copout...

This and DoS are the worst LOTR scores, AUJ is much better and if Shores original themes had remained it would have been up to the LOTR trilogy scores.

[KK 3,307]

Am I the only who thinks 3:17 in Beyond Sorrow and Grief sounds a bit Star Trek-ish? Just a tiny bit.

Which Star Trek? Giacchino's?

No Goldsmith.

I'll have to do some digging to find the moment I'm thinking about.

[Jay 37,355]

The best themes of the whole hobbit trilogy just dissappeared after the first soundtrack and never returned...

Where is the fantastic Erebor theme/ Edge of the Wild (probably Shores original company theme)? Where is the great Dwarf Lords theme? I expected to hear it here!! No Misty Mountains or Bilbo's theme either.

The most depressing aspect of the score and film for me as well

Radagast's Themes also never returned after AUJ either

[KK 3,307]

Am I the only who thinks 3:17 in Beyond Sorrow and Grief sounds a bit Star Trek-ish? Just a tiny bit.

Which Star Trek? Giacchino's?

Reminds me JUST a wee bit of this stuff:

Before you all go crazy and say "it sounds nothing of the sort. You're nuts KK!!", I just said a WEE BIT!!

The best themes of the whole hobbit trilogy just dissappeared after the first soundtrack and never returned...

Where is the fantastic Erebor theme/ Edge of the Wild (probably Shores original company theme)? Where is the great Dwarf Lords theme? I expected to hear it here!! No Misty Mountains or Bilbo's theme either.

The most depressing aspect of the score and film for me as well

Radagast's Themes also never returned after AUJ either

We should keep in mind that PJ has a lot do with this though.

[Jay 37,355]

Well obviously. I blame no one BUT PJ for that.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,355]

Oh I just thought of something else!

There's no Beorn theme on the OST either!

[KK 3,307]

Sorry to rain on the parade... Sadly i don't really like the score. Weak thematic material throughout. It doesnt' help that i hate Smaugs themes and can't care less for the other DOS material. And don't get me started on the subpar Laketown theme. The best material are the old LOTR trilogy themes, House of Durin and the occasional Tauriel statement. The best moment overall is the Good Omen Eagle motif.

The action stuff is all over the place. No structure, no longer running developments... it's a very exhausting listen. Many of the stuff is also too dark for my taste.

The best themes of the whole hobbit trilogy just dissappeared after the first soundtrack and never returned...

Where is the fantastic Erebor theme/ Edge of the Wild (probably Shores original company theme)? Where is the great Dwarf Lords theme? I expected to hear it here!! No Misty Mountains or Bilbo's theme either. What a copout...

This and DoS are the worst LOTR scores, AUJ is much better and if Shores original themes had remained it would have been up to the LOTR trilogy scores.

Hmm, a lot of those missing AUJ themes can be blamed on PJ, not Shore...

And it's posts like these that make me wonder what some of the lesser pleased fans are looking for in these scores. Just more of LotR?

Honestly, I was so incredibly pleased with DoS to hear that Shore found a way to explore a whole new sound and side to his compositional style while retaining the core Middle-Earth sound. In comparison, AUJ sounds a lot like it's "playing it safe". And I don't think we're hearing the same action material I'm afraid...

[SF1_freeze 131]

It's PJ's fault that the AUJ themes were discarded. He definetly changed a lot to the worse between LOTR and now...

Still the new thematic material of DoS and BotFA wasn't very good.. maybe Shore wasn't 100 percent in it anymore

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Oh I just thought of something else!

There's no Beorn theme on the OST either!

Yeah I was thinking the same. Pity. I was just starting to like the piano demo!

But then again, there could be a statement for his intro that is unreleased.

Oh I just thought of something else!

There's no Beorn theme on the OST either!

Well, there's a simple reason for that.

Beorn is in the film only for 15 seconds or so

But he must have some sort of entrance at least? And I'm guessing that'll be underscored in some form.

It's PJ's fault for the AUJ themes missing. He definetly changed a lot for the worse between LOTR and now...

No arguments there.

[Jay 37,355]

Hopefully PJ actually let Shore score his EE scenes properly, and the long version of his theme is finally used there.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Interesting... So even Shore is a Trekkie. The only one left is you, KK...

Never!!

Well if you can prove that Williams is a Trekkie too, then I might have to reconsider...

[gkgyver 1,645]

This and DoS are the worst LOTR scores,

Uh, no.

AUJ is much better

Hmmm ... no.

and if Shores original themes had remained it would have been up to the LOTR trilogy scores.

Well ... ehm ... no.

[KK 3,307]

Oh I just thought of something else!

There's no Beorn theme on the OST either!

Well, there's a simple reason for that.

Beorn is in the film only for 15 seconds or so

But he must have some sort of entrance at least? And I'm guessing that'll be underscored in some form.

Well...

We know he arrives on an Eagle, and you guys said that there is the Eagles music from AUJ, most likely for their arrival during the battle, so if his theme should have showed up, that would have been there.

And this is what I hate so much about these films. All these characters seem so superfluous. We don't care if they show up or if they don't keep show up. They're treated with such little significance.

This and DoS are the worst LOTR scores,

Uh, no.

AUJ is much better

Hmmm ... no.

and if Shores original themes had remained it would have been up to the LOTR trilogy scores.

Well ... ehm ... no.

Yup!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Doh!!!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Oh I just thought of something else!

There's no Beorn theme on the OST either!

Beorn's theme is the Nature theme with a modified melody.

And Nature's theme is there ...

Maybe the Beorn-specific theme will be in the EE.

[SF1_freeze 131]

And it's posts like these that make me wonder what some of the lesser pleased fans are looking for in these scores. Just more of LotR?

Yeah that's what i was expecting. Equally strong and engaging themes and motifs. I felt that the longer more developed AUJ themes got discarded and themes that remained like Thorin's theme/ House of Durin were just too short and motific. They always seem to end unresolved. Every time i hear it i am missing the non existing second half of the theme and that bugs me immensely.

[Jay 37,355]

Yea, the only DOS themes that are really long-lined are Tauriel and Tauriel-Kili.

And of course Smaug and Woodland Realm, but they were fully fleshed out for AUJ.

[BloodBoal 7,538]