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Howard Shore's The Battle of the Five Armies (Hobbit Part 3)


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I can understand that feeling in AUJ, but listen to how they're developed in DoS and BoFA. They've entirely proven the weight and worth! Look how much he does with the 3 simple calls of Erebor. And all those heroic statements of Thorin, just crazy!

The way Shore has been handling all these themes show that he is still at the top of his game. The thematic writing may not be as great as LotR, but the actual writing in these scores is top tier stuff, and still very much ahead of most film music these days.


Yea, the only DOS themes that are really long-lined are Tauriel and Tauriel-Kili.

And of course Smaug and Woodland Realm, but they were fully fleshed out for AUJ.

I really miss the A-phrase of Tauriel-Kili, that was my favourite part of the theme. It seems to have been discarded in this score though :(

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It irks me that people say the Nazgûl music doesn't belong in that Azog scene. If you take a moment to think about it, "AZOG FIGHTS THORIN, THE DWARF!" is an anagram of "HOT RINGWRAITH DOTH GAZE, FFS!

Here's my proposed battle plan:

A Silmarillion tone poem in the hands of Shore could be a beautiful thing.

Yea, the only DOS themes that are really long-lined are Tauriel and Tauriel-Kili.

And the House Of Durin, too (which was introduced in AUJ, but barely featured in the score). And Laketown!

I dunno, is House of Durin really that long-lined? It doesn't have a B section or a bridge section like Tauriel, Tauriel/Kili, and Woodland Realm all do, ya know?

I guess Lake-town counts if you factor in the Lake-town/Bard stuff.

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I guess Lake-town counts if you factor in the Lake-town/Bard stuff.

There are so many sub-motivic cells to all these themes, many of which we haven't even identified yet, that we sometimes take the complexity of it all for granted!

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And it's posts like these that make me wonder what some of the lesser pleased fans are looking for in these scores. Just more of LotR?

Yeah that's what i was expecting. Equally strong and engaging themes and motifs. I felt that the longer more developed AUJ themes got discarded and themes that remained like Thorin's theme/ House of Durin were just too short and motific. They always seem to end unresolved. Every time i hear it i am missing the non existing second half of the theme and that bugs me immensely.

House of Durin "motific"? It's 8 bars, same as the Fellowship theme. Thorin's theme is 7 bars. The Gondor theme is no more than 7 or 8 bars. The Woodland Realm is an even longer-winded theme. And all of them resolve. Not sure what the problem is.

I assume the problem is more that it doesn't match a preconceived mind.

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I think so too.

And these themes aren't written to have the more flashy long-lined extravagance of something like the "Fellowship Theme". There's more of that "cell-based" writing. A complex mingling of themes and more minor motivic ideas. BoFA brings a lot of that light, and shows us just how much of the past 2 scores was theme-based writing.

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If you think of Erebor as the B Section of Thorin's theme, then it's kind of a long theme.

I always preferred to think of Thorin's theme as the B section of the Company's theme. It works so well with that theme (exactly like the Heroics Of Aragorn with the Gondor theme)!

Yea, like how Shore introduced us to it in the original teaser!!

(BTW, remember when you first watched that and thought the music was bad?)

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If you think of Erebor as the B Section of Thorin's theme, then it's kind of a long theme.

I always preferred to think of Thorin's theme as the B section of the Company's theme. It works so well with that theme (exactly like the Heroics Of Aragorn with the Gondor theme)!

That's what I thought it was when we first heard it in the teaser!

If you think of Erebor as the B Section of Thorin's theme, then it's kind of a long theme.

I always preferred to think of Thorin's theme as the B section of the Company's theme. It works so well with that theme (exactly like the Heroics Of Aragorn with the Gondor theme)!

Yea, like how Shore introduced us to it in the original teaser!!

(BTW, remember when you first watched that and thought the music was bad?)

:lol: He thought it was cheap synth trailer music!

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Imagine the Dwarf Lords theme playing when Dain enters the battlefield. First noble and then in action mode. Or what about a statement in DOS when the dwarves first see Erebor in full glory.

So many missed opportunities :(

I prefer Dain's theme to the Dwarf Lords theme. The latter sounds closer to stock Shore music honestly. And I believe the Dwarf Lords is integrated as counterpoint to Dain's theme.

Anyone know what the ominous soprano material after the Nature theme in "To the Death" might be? Azog vs Thorin?

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Imagine the Dwarf Lords theme playing when Dain enters the battlefield. First noble and then in action mode. Or what about a statement in DOS when the dwarves first see Erebor in full glory.

So many missed opportunities :(

The statement of Thorin's theme when the mountain is revealed to them on the boat is magical. One of the few truly hair-raising moments.

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House of Durin "motific"? It's 8 bars, same as the Fellowship theme. Thorin's theme is 7 bars. The Gondor theme is no more than 7 or 8 bars. The Woodland Realm is an even longer-winded theme. And all of them resolve. Not sure what the problem is.

I assume the problem is more that it doesn't match a preconceived mind.

Maybe i'm mixing up themes, i don't know the scores THAT well. I guess i meant Thorin's theme which is more motific and not House of Durin which indeed appears in longer resolved form in DOS and is one of my favorite not discarded hobbit theme.

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The teaser cue is one of my most wanted unreleased recordings from TH!


It is so clear to me that HS intended Bilbo's theme to be the main theme of the entire 3 movie saga when he scored that trailer....

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:lol: He thought it was cheap synth trailer music!

Shut up!

P.S.: About the music, is this Howard Shore's? The first part of the trailer sound like a mock-up of the Shire theme, but the rest sound like generic trailer music to my ears.

ROTFLMAO

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P.S.: About the music, is this Howard Shore's? The first part of the trailer sound like a mock-up of the Shire theme, but the rest sound like generic trailer music to my ears.

ROTFLMAO

Well, I think it was confirmed by Doug that Bilbo's theme at the beginning is indeed played on a synth, so there... Ha!

I believe that whole incident is how you dubbed me my title no?

Some of the other posts around that time makes kind of nostalgic though. It was a better time to be a PJ/Tolkien/LotR/Hobbit fan...

Wow. Kinda surreal.

That's a bloody great trailer. Not something you see much these days. The next year will be tough to wait!

I love all the reminders of the LotR trilogy in the poster (the hobbit holes, the round door, the suspenders, etc.), but as a whole the poster looks a little too...modern. Get rid of the big flash of light and the unnatural darkness in the home, and til the camera right side up and it'd be perfect.

+1

About the trailer... Meh...

THIS IS FUCKING HOLY AWESOMENESS AT ITS FINEST! Feels good to have one decent fantasy film coming this way! It had been long time since the last one!

They show an awful lot in this trailer. A lot more than I expected. And beautiful imagery, that is! Gandalf and Galadriel's scene looks awesome, as does the rest.

We're gonna need to do a frame-by-frame analysis! There is too much to explore.

Oh, and the dwarves singing was extraordinary!

Ah, Ringasm! Ringasm!

That's totally Shore.

The trailer is beautiful. It's not a description I was expecting to use for some reason, but that's what it is.

I still think this could be better than the trilogy.

This look great. The lighting, the rich colors, the expensive composite shots - it all fits nicely into the middle-earth aesthetic of the previous films. Very nice continuity.

Shore looks to have come up with real cracker of a dwarves theme as well! It was PERFECT. Cool to know he's still very much in the zone with his Tolkien music.

So it begins...

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True to Wagnerian tradition, it's not just themes, but he give leitmotivic significance to certain passages and figures, etc, etc. That way he can easily reference moments, even in very dense filmic and musical settings.


I believe that whole incident is how you dubbed me my title no?

Possibly, yes. So remember: I could strip you from your title just as easily as I gave it to you!

Once it's done, it's done! I shall forever remain, the Merciful One.

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True to Wagnerian tradition, it's not just themes, but he give leitmotivic significance to certain passages and figures, etc, etc. That way he can easily reference moments, even in very dense filmic and musical settings.

I believe that whole incident is how you dubbed me my title no?

Possibly, yes. So remember: I could strip you from your title just as easily as I gave it to you!

Once it's done, it's done! I shall forever remain, the Merciful One.

The Arkenstone and Erebor themes work very well in that context, as well as a lot of the Smaug material. I also loved the use of A Hobbit's Understanding in AUJ for this reason as well.
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So I'm comparing "Ironfoot" from the SE OST to "Ironfoot" from the Standard OST.

It's crazy! There isn't just like, a chunk or two removed. There's a million microedits throughout the track! So bizarre!

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Well I was WRONG about Ironfoot!

It turns out that MovieTickets for some reason gave out their free track as 48khz, which I knew, but I thought I downconverted it to 44.1khz before comparing but somehow I didn't. So that threw me off for a while until I figured it out.

Anyways, the ONLY difference between the Standard track and the SE track is the bit in the SE track from 4:02-5:06 is snipped out of the standard version.

Spreadsheet updated!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AjiRtgP4_o4TdHdFUExoRi1GMjlxRjl6V0hXY2JKU1E&output=html

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Is the motif starting Guardians of the Three, and which pops up later in the track again, the "Sauron Rising" (for the lack of a better term) motif playing when Sauron appears in DoS, and when the witch king appears in Minas Morgul?

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Is the motif starting Guardians of the Three, and which pops up later in the track again, the "Sauron Rising" (for the lack of a better term) motif playing when Sauron appears in DoS, and when the witch king appears in Minas Morgul?

Yes! Interesting how Shore took that piece of accompaniment and made it into a minor motif in the Hobbit. I somehow suspect PJ using the Minas Morgul music as temp track for the DoS scene and sticking to it is the main reason though.

The villain themes are pretty much missing from the battle. We do get some heavy bludgeoning brass and percussion and one statement of the Warg theme but Azog's material is nearly completely missing. But I guess they thematically focused on the heroes.

I wish we heard more of the Carrock music in To The Death. Its appearance is so brief! :(

The final showdown music for Azog and Thorin is pretty dark stuff eh?

To the Death is surprisingly much less thematic than I expected. Shore reprises phrases from the Bolg/Legolas battle, A LOT of the Dol Guldur/Orc dissonances and few snatches of Thorin's theme. The Nature'c Reclamation is really tempered by its brevity and the somewhat odd insertion of the eagle rescue music into the battle scene but it ain't half bad. ;)

The final 2 minutes are quite creepy with the soloist intoning that quasi-Smaug theme before the build-up to the tragic fragment statement of Thorin's theme.

Is that Evil Times I hear at the beginning of Courage and Wisdom in those eerie strings?

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Just got a listen of the score. I was surprised and thankful that Shore pulled the thread tight on all the themes and had a nice segway into the Rings scores towards the end. What in the hell is a brief statement of the Fellowship doing there at the end?

I was pleased to hear natures reclamation reprised as well as another working of the eagle rescue that wasn't released in the first film's soundtrack.

Some nice reprisals of Gandalf's themes although I would have liked more exploration of the 'B' phrase.

It could just be me but it seems just like the last two scores there's a frightful battle of brass going on and it doesn't seem to sound as clean as the battle music for Rings.

Bilbo's material returns into a trilogy of scores that bear his name. To me poor Bilbo is always sidelined in the adaptations...

I haven't seen the film(s) yet as there is bound to be more material. I don't know how they keep getting away with calling it a 'special edition' soundtrack.

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I haven't seen the film(s) yet as there is bound to be more material. I don't know how they keep getting away with calling it a 'special edition' soundtrack.

Well, they're not calling it "The complete score", so I don't see what the problem is.

Someone on TORN posted his/her thoughts on the soundtrack, and here's what he/she said about what could possibly be the BOFA title card music:

- I can't confirm having not seen the film, but it seems like the 'BOTFA' title card motif MIGHT be the new Dale theme (you hear a solo strings version of it at the end of 'Ironfoot', if anyone wants to hear it). It certainly gets an emphatic moment during Shores of the Long Lake

I suppose the Dale theme he/she's talking about is actually the new Bard theme?

Yes it is the new material for Bard/Lake-Town which possibly ties to Dale as well seeing how Bard is taking up the leadership after the Smaug attack.

It's a real ripoff. I severely wish the complete recordings become a reality.

They will, my friend, they will.

At least we have to keep telling ourselves that.

It is not a rip-off. And yes the need and hope for complete recordings burns bright!

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