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Is Sony punishing the fans for hating the TPM UE by not releasing the complete SW Prequel scores?


King Mark
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Sony and the SW Prequel score releases  

38 members have voted

  1. 1. So?

    • Yes, some executives must have a grudge
    • No, it's purely a business/profit decision


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The OST makes no attempt to be more grandiose than it actually is. In that sense, it's superior to the UE.

I can't tell because of the overdose of reverb that is on the OST. The UE sounds like someone just rescued me from drowning.

Hail the Ultimate Edition!

Alex

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I don't hate the Ultimate Edition. Even with the bad editing, it's still a better representation of the score than the commercial album.

I vastly prefer the OST

The OST is a better listening experience but due to the exclusion of "Hail to the Winner", "Anakin is Free", "Qui-Gon and Darth Maul Meet", "The Tide Turns", and the opening of "The Battle Begins" it's not even close to being satisfying. It may be extremely flawed, but the Ultimate Edition is pretty much the only way to listen to those cues in lossless quality.

That being said, there is a dire need the real complete score for TPM, as well as AOTC and ROTS.

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Both albums are flawed, but the OST at least has some effort behind it.

True. The presentation of the OST has been deliberately messed up with effort. The UE is just messed up because there was no effort at all.

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The cues of TPM, while often featuring stunning passages, are curiously formless. There are very few pieces that don't seem to lose their way after 2 minutes often stumbling in unrelated directions or meandering along in dialogue scoring. The Williams-produced edit isn't very good but with 30% more effort and better selection (and minus the two repeats) it could have been very good. Lose the fat, release the highlights!

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It is the kind of problem that seems to plague all the prequels. It's just less noticeable in the latter two as Williams is trying less to capture moment-to-moment ADHD visual information on screen and abandons the trademark thematic writing to some extent. It's both good for him and bad for him, depending on what angle you choose.

Karll

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I've always considered Phantom to be the best of the prequels. Clones is underrated and has some nice moments (albeit, interchangeable with other Williams scores at many points), as does Sith. However, Sith is mostly just hodgepodge of a lot of forgettable modern soulless Williams filler music. As I recall, you wackjobs declared it one of his greatest scores of all time. But then, it seems the majority of you also think E.T. is boring and Superman: The Movie sucks.

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Well the TPM UE was essential I think

We got 95% of the complete scores to RotS and AotC via videogame files, but a lot of Phantom Menace crucial cues would still be unreleased even in the videogames I think

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The fact that they reused the same recording of the Main Title...I mean, that they no longer even bothered to record the Main Title for each new movie really says something of the slapped-together nature of the prequel scores.

+1

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The fact that they reused the same recording of the Main Title...I mean, that they no longer even bothered to record the Main Title for each new movie really says something of the slapped-together nature of the prequel scores.

+1

The main title I can just about understand - the planned tracking in the second and third films is worse.

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Revenge of the Sith has some of the best passages of the three.

I've always considered Phantom to be the best of the prequels. Clones is underrated and has some nice moments (albeit, interchangeable with other Williams scores at many points), as does Sith. However, Sith is mostly just hodgepodge of a lot of forgettable modern soulless Williams filler music. As I recall, you wackjobs declared it one of his greatest scores of all time. But then, it seems the majority of you also think E.T. is boring and Superman: The Movie sucks.

I actually love E.T. and Superman: The Movie (the score moreseo than the film)

There is that split Williams sound. The 90's is where he became increasingly murkier although still great IMO.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Look there's no question the TPM OST sucks and lacks too many important cues from the complete score. This is WHY JWFan was founded after all. At the very least the TPM UE is worth it's price for Anakin is Free and Talk of Podracing

The RotS OST is the same way. It's hard to fully appreciate this score based on the OST alone

The only good Prequel OST is Attack of the Clones, because it actually included most of the important cues in a decent presentation. The only really notable omissions are Shmi's Funeral and Anakin's Confession

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Look there's no question the TPM OST sucks and lacks too many important cues from the complete score. This is WHY JWFan was founded after all. At the very least the TPM UE is worth it's price for Anakin is Free and Talk of Podracing

The RotS OST is the same way. It's hard to fully appreciate this score based on the OST alone

The only good Prequel OST is Attack of the Clones, because it actually included most of the important cues in a decent presentation. The only really notable omissions are Shmi's Funeral and Anakin's Confession

The Attack of the Clones OST is good but all 3 Prequels benefit from a more complete score.

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I can understand both fractions of people, who enjoy the original release and people, who enjoy the UE.

I am obsessed with the UE because: After listening the OST for the first time, I ranked the score from good to very good but tends to very good. After I listened to the UE, I realized this score is a real masterpiece. Although the UE has edits, loops and maybe the battle on disc 2 leads some listener to a "mid catastrophe", I can listen to it without having problems with this (If you think about it, the complete "Battle of Endor" has also a bit problem switching one scene to another). You can hear the power and giatism of this work. It should be mentioned that this is not exactly how it is in the movie. The tracks were merged together, so you get a complete whole. In the movie, some tracks were segued and combined inlogical. I don't know why you all ennoyed about the album version of "Augie's Municipal Band". The film version is looped and edited. So I am happy you get the unedited version.

The OST left out much of interesting and astonishing music. And the OST has also redundant passages. The scond half of "The Arrival at Naboo" at track 1 is heard exactly on track 13 at 1:54, which really ennoys me. "Duel of the Fates" and "Anakin's Theme" is exactly sequenced on the end credits. This could maybe interpretated as kind of potpourri or somewhat a medley. But pretty boring if you ask me. Listen to the same themes at the end without alterations. That's a big advantage for the UE. "Duel of the Fates" on the UE is nipped and tucked, so you only have segements of this, but you can listen to it with full blown arragement at the end. "Anakin's Theme" is unique on the end credits. No redudance.

Of course, a "real" complete score is much better than the UE, don't get me wrong. But there isn't a complete score offically, the UE is the essential recording for me to capture this brilliant work.

Btw, I don't think Sony wants to blame us.

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It is not a very good strategy for a company that wants to sell something to "punish" its customers. I am pretty sure that the guys at Sony know this. They probably simply believe that they would not sell enough.

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It is not a very good strategy for a company that wants to sell something to "punish" its customers. I am pretty sure that the guys at Sony know this. They probably simply believe that they would not sell enough.

I agree, I find it hard to believe they would even care about people's feelings. It's purely what sells more.

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I'm not a businessman, but if I had access to the complete Star Wars scores, I'd remaster the Star Wars Trilogy scores and their original albums and reissue all the complete scores. Star Wars fans do nothing but buy shit, usually the same shit over and over again in a slightly different form. There is a demand for the music and it will sell.

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I'm not a businessman, but if I had access to the complete Star Wars scores, I'd remaster the Star Wars Trilogy scores and their original albums and reissue all the complete scores. Star Wars fans do nothing but buy shit, usually the same shit over and over again in a slightly different form. There is a demand for the music and it will sell.

This is very true. It's Star Wars, of course it will sell.

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Look there's no question the TPM OST sucks and lacks too many important cues from the complete score. This is WHY JWFan was founded after all.

Mhh no... That is why the first incarnation of this site increased its popularity a few months after it was created (it provided information about how to obtain and edit the unreleased cues, as well as the cues themselves). But the site was founded because I felt there was a need for a place that provided information on the TPM score, three months before the album was released, and when nobody knew what kind of release we would get. Its creation had nothing to do with the unreleased music. Just felt the need to clarify that :)

Although the UE has edits, loops and maybe the battle on disc 2 leads some listener to a "mid catastrophe", I can listen to it without having problems with this (If you think about it, the complete "Battle of Endor" has also a bit problem switching one scene to another).

Are you seriously comparing the TPM edits with John Williams' perfect transitions in The Battle of Endor? Really?

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But the site was founded because I felt there was a need for a place that provided information on the TPM score, three months before the album was released, and when nobody knew what kind of release we would get. Its creation had nothing to do with the unreleased music. Just felt the need to clarify that :)

But the information about the TPM score before the album was released was entirely about unreleased music...

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But the site was founded because I felt there was a need for a place that provided information on the TPM score, three months before the album was released, and when nobody knew what kind of release we would get. Its creation had nothing to do with the unreleased music. Just felt the need to clarify that :)

But the information about the TPM score before the album was released was entirely about unreleased music...

OK I'll rephrase that: The site's creation had nothing to with the album lacking any cues from the score, precisely because neither the film nor the album hadn't yet been released. My explanation was a direct response to this:

Look there's no question the TPM OST sucks and lacks too many important cues from the complete score. This is WHY JWFan was founded after all.

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I'm not a businessman, but if I had access to the complete Star Wars scores, I'd remaster the Star Wars Trilogy scores and their original albums and reissue all the complete scores. Star Wars fans do nothing but buy shit, usually the same shit over and over again in a slightly different form. There is a demand for the music and it will sell.

I'm one of them!

If you were hired too market film scores and make money, a quick internet search would reveal that Star Wars is easily one of the most popular soundtracks of all time. It's almost guaranteed to make money.

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For the prequels, what are those costs? I don't know what remastering is needed (I hope not making it all really loud) but they've got the complete sessions in digital form ready to go, surely.

I think the biggest problem is hiring the right producer.

Clearly the OT is a bit more challenging. I agree with the above though - it would sell like hotcakes.

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I guess it's likely all six scores will be re-released in some form when the new film comes out, but imho it's unlikely they'll be deeply revamped than the previous releases. We'll be lucky if the prequels will have some unreleased stuff as bonus tracks à la Jurassic Park 20th anniversary.

As for the costs, the problematic part is licensing stuff. As we know, the situation is quite tricky at the moment, since the music rights are divided between LFL (owner), Fox (co-owner and co-publisher), Warner (publishing rights) and Sony (current exclusive licensee until 2020).

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There's also the problem that those in charge seem to not understand the negative backlash over the UE. And if they don't then the only impression they can have must be that their target audience is ungrateful and not such a safe bet to actually spend more money on this music - especially if it's just re-releases of the supposedly complete albums already out there.

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It's pretty clear to me. The fact that Sony didn't produce AOTC and ROTS "Ultimate Editions" around the time that the DVDs of the films were released means that some of their executives had a grudge due to the backlash over TPM "Ultimate Edition". I see no other reason why they wouldn't have wanted to make more money by releasing the scores in more-complete form. With the experience from producing the TPM UE, putting together two more 2-CD sets would have been a relative walk in the park and certainly would have turned a healthy profit.

It's obvious that Sony spent very little money, effort, and time producing the multiple releases of Mike Mattesino's Original Trilogy work over... and over... and over. So they had no problem milking the OT recordings for profit.

Comparing Sony's numerous OT soundtrack releases to the four Prequel Trilogy soundtrack releases, the only difference is the amount of work involved. I'm guessing it's somewhat easier to design new packaging (and screensavers!) than to properly mix and master lengthy orchestral recordings.

If Sony doesn't produce "new" Star Wars CDs shortly before Ep. VII is released in theaters, I'll be surprised. There's simply too much money to be made from the casual SW fans. Hopefully "new" means more more music with improved sound - but I'm not holding my breath.

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It's pretty clear to me. The fact that Sony didn't produce AOTC and ROTS "Ultimate Editions" around the time that the DVDs of the films were released means that some of their executives had a grudge due to the backlash over TPM "Ultimate Edition". I see no other reason why they wouldn't have wanted to make more money by releasing the scores in more-complete form. With the experience from producing the TPM UE, putting together two more 2-CD sets would have been a relative walk in the park and certainly would have turned a healthy profit.

I'm still trying to imagine the conversation:

Producer A: Should we produce expanded releases of AOTC and ROTS?

Producer B: Well, they're sure to make lots of money.

Producer C: And with the experience we now have it's not much work.

Producer D: Hey guys, don't you remember? The Star Wars fans are ungrateful assholes.

Producer A: True. I still cry myself to sleep when I think of the comments they made about our great release.

Producer B: Yeah, they don't deserve expanded releases.

Producer C: Right. Screw the money.

Producer D: Right.

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