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7 hours ago, Thekthithm said:

Is this set in the same universe as the Snyder movies?

 

 DC had hoped that Snyder (after getting some swift guidance from Chistopher Nolan) would bring fortune and glory to their house, but as we all know, that never materialized. One has to wonder if there is still a coherent and long-term vision for the DC universe. Maybe there never was. 

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5 hours ago, Thekthithm said:

Wonder Woman as a fun addition.

 

Wonder Woman is fantastic. Its such a breath of fresh air among the "darkness" of Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman, but it doesn't acheive this freshness by throwing away the seriousness for the farce that is Aquaman and Shazam.

 

Wonder Woman is dark and serious. It shows the horrors of the First World War quite blatantly, and it shows its heroine undergo real loss and tragedy.

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It's perfectly solid, but not fantastic.

 

The WWI setting is great, but there's little of interest in the actual plot, and the action scenes really arent all that good. Also, it's essentially a Captain America: The First Avenger remake.

Excellent cast though!

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Maybe I'm making more of it simply because I got so fed-up with Marvel's brand of self-parody, that to see an earnst superhero film was such a breath of fresh air.

 

In an MCU movie, the visual of a woman in a colourful metal corset crossing no-man's land and deflecting bullets with her vambraces would merit a cutaway to some kind of side-character joking about it; or maybe the filmmakers would suddenly have Wonder Woman trip or step in something.

 

In Petty Jenkins' hands, its treated with uttermost pathos, instead. We haven't seen that kind of filmmaking in this genre for a long time.

 

And, on the flipside, its a film that's unapologetic about the horrors of the First World War, as well. Its all there, quite blatantly. In that sense, it is a dark film.

 

Plus, its nice to see a film from the 2010s, starring a heroine, where she is allowed to be physically alluring to the male audience and to the male characters within the film.

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56 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Maybe I'm making more of it simply because I got so fed-up with Marvel's brand of self-parody, that to see an earnst superhero film was such a breath of fresh air.

 

In an MCU movie, the visual of a woman in a colourful metal corset crossing no-man's land and deflecting bullets with her vambraces would merit a cutaway to some kind of side-character joking about it; or maybe the filmmakers would suddenly have Wonder Woman trip or step in something.

 

In Petty Jenkins' hands, its treated with uttermost pathos, instead. We haven't seen that kind of filmmaking in this genre for a long time.

 

And, on the flipside, its a film that's unapologetic about the horrors of the First World War, as well. Its all there, quite blatantly.

 

Plus, its nice to see a film from the 2010s, starring a heroine, where she is allowed to be physically alluring to the male audience and to the male characters within the film.

 

I agree with everything you say. 

 

But as an action film, i didn't think it was remarkable. 

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Maybe I'm making more of it simply because I got so fed-up with Marvel's brand of self-parody, that to see an earnst superhero film was such a breath of fresh air.

 

 

MOS and BvS are earnest superhero movies.

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1 hour ago, Arpy said:

Any old pile of shit is better than Man of Steel, and who would've thought Batman vs. Superman could be worse? It's irredeemable trash and truly some of the worst filmmaking Hollywood has thrown cash at. 

 

This is complete BS. Both films have problems, yet both films have their strengths. MoS has too much destruction porn and the shallowest romance I've ever seen in a superhero movie, but the action is good and the tone was different enough for Superman to be interesting for that outing. The infamous "Martha" scene at the end of BvS deserves the hate it gets, but the first 90 minutes of that movie, at least in its extended form, is perfectly acceptable Batman.

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I never even saw Man of Steel and BvS was forgettable and downright boring aside from some Batman and Alfred scenes. Wonder Woman is incredibly overrated and the Suicide Squad and Justice League were terrible. Absolutely terrible.

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I don't understand why the Batman and Alfred scenes in BvS were not boring but the rest of the film is. Why are they excluded?

 

While not good, I didn't think Justice League was as terrible as Suicide Squad, which truly had bad direction in every meaning of the word. 

 

I do agree that Wonder Woman wasn't anything special. I felt like I've seen it many times before. I only liked the prologue sequence.

 

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The Bruce and Alfred scenes account for approximately 4 minutes of total screentime.

 

The other Batmanian scenes that are good include the actual fight with Superman and the next scene where he beats up a bunch of other guys.

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8 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

MOS and BvS are earnest superhero movies.

 

True, and I do like that in terms of the approach DC had at the time. Unfortunately, now they seem to be heading into more lighthearted, self-aware territory, a-la Marvel with Aquaman and Shazam.

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9 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

This is complete BS. Both films have problems, yet both films have their strengths. MoS has too much destruction porn and the shallowest romance I've ever seen in a superhero movie, but the action is good and the tone was different enough for Superman to be interesting for that outing. The infamous "Martha" scene at the end of BvS deserves the hate it gets, but the first 90 minutes of that movie, at least in its extended form, is perfectly acceptable Batman.

The Martha scene is the least of that film's problems. The entire film is a joke.

43 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

True, and I do like that in terms of the approach DC had at the time. Unfortunately, now they seem to be heading into more lighthearted, self-aware territory, a-la Marvel with Aquaman and Shazam.

DC's brand of superhero has lost its place among the more dominant MCU, and while I agree with @Alexcremers in saying they betray a more earnest approach (they feel like superhero stories), they also fail to do anything with that power. 

 

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No. I'm 100% serious. The whole film is a mess: poor writing, terrible CGI monstrosities, zero character development. It's a spectacle that should serve as an example of exactly how to mess up a film.

 

There hasn't been a good DC film since The Dark Knight Rises in 2012.

 

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He's right. The Martha scene was the most awkwardly acted thing since George Lucas directed but at least it was sort of a good moment in theory that got them to stop fighting and team up, which was what everyone actually wanted.

 

Most of the rest of the movie is shit.

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18 minutes ago, Thekthithm said:

At least Batman murders people.

 

True but it still seems completely out of character for him to want to murder Superman. He didn't even do anything.

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Batman himself kills people and causes property destruction constantly in this movie. I guess it's a problem only if someone else does it. Sounds like your typical American!

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6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Batman is an American, Superman is an illegal alien pretending to be an American!

Yet Superman is presented as an an American hero and Batman as an edgy vigilante.

 

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3 hours ago, Arpy said:

No. I'm 100% serious. The whole film is a mess: poor writing, terrible CGI monstrosities, zero character development. It's a spectacle that should serve as an example of exactly how to mess up a film.

 

 

I've heard people describe it as a terrible mess, but when I finally saw the movie, I was actually pleasantly surprised with how well Snyder shows both Superman and Batman's perspective and how strongly the film is focused on their discord. For me, the poor writing only became apparent with the silly 'Mother Martha' turnaround and everything after that. It's also then, in the final act, that the GCI gets really ugly and when a completely uninteresting monster shows up. You could be right about the film having zero character development but it's something I didn't experience as a major problem. We watch and observe their struggle and torment during the feud. 

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@Alexcremers I think it's exactly the type of film for people expecting a dumb fight between Superman and Batman (it has the luxury of being just as ridiculous as it sounds).

 

The biggest problem even before BvS is Superman's character; if you watched Man of Steel, there's no sensible way to reach the conclusion that Superman is a hero, or good (least of all an American one). He's an alien without any supervision or oversight, and frankly is a terrifying monster. 

 

Sometimes it's a matter of switching your brain off and allowing these films to operate as a spectacle. For most people, I think that's the point of engagement with these superhero films: action and spectacle. However with these Snyder films comes the hefty price of being built on rubbish stories where the spectacle becomes meaningless and lifeless as a result. It's why I say it's irredeemable, it's a disgusting waste of money and human effort.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Arpy said:

 

The biggest problem even before BvS is Superman's character; if you watched Man of Steel, there's no sensible way to reach the conclusion that Superman is a hero, or good (least of all an American one). He's an alien without any supervision or oversight, and frankly is a terrifying monster. 

 

 

 

Believe it or not, but that is the whole idea behind MOS! And BvS! It's why Batman wants him dead. He sees him as a dangerous alien.

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23 minutes ago, Arpy said:

The biggest problem even before BvS is Superman's character; if you watched Man of Steel, there's no sensible way to reach the conclusion that Superman is a hero, or good (least of all an American one). He's an alien without any supervision or oversight, and frankly is a terrifying monster. 

 

Where do you internet people get this crap from? How was he not a hero? Fighting Zod wasn't exactly easy!

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1 hour ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Believe it or not, but that is the whole idea behind MOS! And BvS! It's why Batman wants him dead. He sees him as a dangerous alien.

In Man of Steel? They intentionally wrote him as a reckless fool?

 

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