The DCU - DC Universe

[Bilbo 3,706]

2 hours ago, mstrox said:

The trades are reporting similar:

 

https://deadline.com/2022/08/batgirl-scoob-discard-warnerbros-discovery-david-zaslav-jason-kilar-hbo-max-strategy-1235084032/
 

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/batgirl-movie-why-not-releasing-warner-bros-1235332062/amp/
 

I’d have been much more likely to watch a lowkey Batgirl detective movie from Ms. Marvel directors than I am to watch Black Adam or a sequel to the god-awful Aquaman movie, so bummer!

Oh I had seen people saying it was received terribly at test screenings. 

[rough cut 1,470]

10 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

SEE THE FIRST MOVIE! It's quite arguably the best DCEU movie. It's wonderful.

 

Yavar

I agree. The movie is good old fashioned fun!

 

It has a good score also by Benjamin Wallfisch, I was sad to hear they didn’t bringing him back for the sequel. I guess we won’t be hearing that rousing main theme again.

 

 

[JNHFan2000 1,575]

Don't be surprised if you do.

Beck is very good and respectful of using other composers' themes.

I do think we will hear a new theme, but I think Wallfisch's theme will still be there.

[AC1 3,902]

5 hours ago, mstrox said:

The trades are reporting similar:

 

https://deadline.com/2022/08/batgirl-scoob-discard-warnerbros-discovery-david-zaslav-jason-kilar-hbo-max-strategy-1235084032/
 

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/batgirl-movie-why-not-releasing-warner-bros-1235332062/amp/
 

I’d have been much more likely to watch a lowkey Batgirl detective movie from Ms. Marvel directors than I am to watch Black Adam or a sequel to the god-awful Aquaman movie, so bummer!

 

Not even as a streaming release? Why throw away 90 million?

[rough cut 1,470]

 

1 hour ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Beck is very good and respectful of using other composers' themes.

I do think we will hear a new theme, but I think Wallfisch's theme will still be there.

 

Great if it’s so.

 

Who is Beck?

[Brónach 819]

omg it's imploding

[Bilbo 3,706]

31 minutes ago, AC1 said:

 

Not even as a streaming release? Why throw away 90 million?

This is why the reports of the test screenings I saw sound so credible. If it was any way decent at all they’d make some effort to release it in someway. To just throw it away makes it sound like it wasn’t worth releasing in any form.

[crumbs 12,972]

Wow, just how bad was this film to throw a $90m production in the bin?

 

That's quite the tax write-off.

[Brónach 819]

36 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

This is why the reports of the test screenings I saw sound so credible. If it was any way decent at all they’d make some effort to release it in someway. To just throw it away makes it sound like it wasn’t worth releasing in any form.

 

but the fact it's surrounded by cancellations of all sorts, a regime change with who knows what ideas and some tax-related window that closes in august that i don't understand, makes me think it's not only that

[JNHFan2000 1,575]

56 minutes ago, rough cut said:

 

 

Great if it’s so.

 

Who is Beck?

Christophe Beck. He's scoring the sequel

[HunterTech 742]

The big issue I have with the film supposedly being canned because of its quality is the fact that studios usually tend to just lift review embargoes on the day of release if they feel they have a stinker on their hands. Hell, given what has been successful in the past, I think a lot of the time they might not even care if the movie is bad if they know profit is guaranteed (Michael Bay Transformers being the obvious one). Why would the studio that fully approved BvS and theatrical JL suddenly care about quality?

 

Since Affleck is supposedly replacing Keaton for Aquaman 2, and the Flash (of which Batgirl is intended to tie with) is continuing to be delayed, I much more believe that the new higher ups have very specific plans for the DC universe, and that they're intent on minimizing the changes the recent projects were going to do.

 

Oh yeah, and these new hires being very committed to continuing the HP franchise despite the diminishing returns of the Fantastic Beasts series would certainly suggest to me that it isn't quite about quality as much as it is the branding.

 

(Also, why put stock in test screenings if Justice League got decent results, yet that ended up being received poorly by most. It tends to be so shaky with how much they can negatively affect movies sometimes.)

[Edmilson 4,973]

This Hollywood Reporter article explains very well why the movie was cancelled. The main reason: money.

 

This is particularly insightful:

 

Quote

At a certain point, a source notes, it doesn’t make financial sense to spend $80 million or $90 million on a streaming movie, as it won’t necessarily attract more subscribers than, say, a $40 million movie. (In an earnings disclosure in April, HBO and its HBO Max streaming service counted 76.8 million combined global subscribers.)

Going forward, a streaming film will be made for a more modest number, “and if it’s for theatrical, it better feel theatrical,” notes a knowledgeable source.

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/batgirl-hbo-max-movie-dc-canceled-1235191932/

[Sweeping Strings 1,748]

People who went to see the likes of the first Suicide Squad and Morbius are all 'Yeah yeah yeah ... NOW you decide a superhero flick is too shit to be released  '.  

[Luke Skywalker 1,508]

Seriously…just for the keaton batman, im sure many people were curious about this film….

[rough cut 1,470]

Is Keaton really that big of a draw? Do the general public today remember the movies and would be excited by his return?

 

Or is it a small group of 40-50 year olds - which means a great deal of the movie going public would miss the point.

 

Wouldn’t Christian Bale - who is more recent in memory (and also generally hailed as the best Batman ever?) - be a surer bet?

[Naïve Old Fart 7,984]

46 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Is Keaton really that big of a draw?

Yes, he is!

He is, by a country mile, the best Batman/Bruce Wayne.

Any idiot built like a brick outhouse can beat people up, but Keaton gets the dichotomy of Bruce Wayne just right.

[rough cut 1,470]

32 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Yes, he is!

He is, by a country mile, the best Batman/Bruce Wayne.

 

I agree he’s the best. But I’m not sure that is the general opinion. But I could be wrong.

[mstrox 5,885]

I think Keaton was a much more interesting Bruce/Batman than Bale/. Either way, the nostalgia cycle has come for the 1990s, so that’s where DC’s head is at now.

[AC1 3,902]

2 hours ago, rough cut said:

I agree he’s the best. But I’m not sure that is the general opinion. But I could be wrong.

 

General opinion will be generation based. Few 20-year-olds will opt for Keaton.

[Smaug The Iron 436]

3 minutes ago, AC1 said:

General opinion will be generation based. Few 20-year-olds will opt for Keaton.

I am 23 and my favorite is Keaton 

[AC1 3,902]

1 minute ago, Smaug The Iron said:

I am 23 and my favorite is Keaton 

 

Outside JWFan, I mean.

[crocodile 7,091]

So they spend all this money on the film...that is already in the can and in the middle of post-production... and then won't release it to save money? 🤔

 

Karol

[Romão 2,180]

3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Yes, he is!

He is, by a country mile, the best Batman/Bruce Wayne.

Any idiot built like a brick outhouse can beat people up, but Keaton gets the dichotomy of Bruce Wayne just right.

 

 

He never had good material to work with, but I still the actor who played Batman and Bruce Wayne the best was Val Kilmer. Great voice too

[Andy 2,565]

WB knows Keaton is a draw.  I don't understand why they don't just bring him back in his own film.  Old chiseled gristled Batman.

[Disco Stu 15,475]

I know the comics have done older Batman, but have they done, like, senior citizen Batman?  Keaton is 70, only a couple years younger than Michael Gough was when he filmed the '89 Batman!  (EDIT: I looked it up, Gough turned 72 during the filming)

[Andy 2,565]

Michael Gough seemed old even when he was young.  And the reverse for Keaton.  He's got fire in him still.  

It's odd but with his crazy eyebrows, he's beginning to resemble aspects of Jack Nicholson.  They could do a retcon and have Jack Napier be his bio father. 

 

[Disco Stu 15,475]

Gough had that turkey neck going on.  I'd be willing to bet that takin' out a turkey neck is one of the most common cosmetic surgeries for older male actors (not claiming that Keaton has had that surgery, just speculating generally), in terms of something that's very common for normal older men but relatively rare for aging movie stars.

[schultz.kevin1972 17]

2 hours ago, crocodile said:

So they spend all this money on the film...that is already in the can and in the middle of post-production... and then won't release it to save money? 🤔

 

Karol

 

I think it's a terrible shame they cancelled it at this point. But I'm not sure releasing it would necessarily save money. There's the rest of the post-production costs, plus the promotion and marketing costs, which they would need, otherwise just dumping the movie without hype or press would make MUCH less money than a promoted movie. And who knows what other "mystery" costs might be floating around needing to be paid at some point if they continued? 

 

But it still sucks, no two ways about it. 

 

(Though having said that, they've gotten a fair amount of press for the cancellation, maybe they can just stop where they're at and "leak" the movie as-is online...? Can't be any worse than most "finished" movies nowadays.*)

 

(Or maybe as an HBO Max exclusive?)

 

*"Aquamaaannn!" - Johnny Depp

[mstrox 5,885]

They can never release it as an HBO Max exclusive - any attempt at making money off of it will invalidate the tax write off.  This movie will disappear.

 

They have also removed a few underperforming HBO MAX movies off of the service permanently, including most notably Zemeckis’s The Witches, and are writing those off as well.

 

https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/hbo-max-removes-warner-bros-films-streaming-exclusive-1235332258/amp/

[Edmilson 4,973]

3 hours ago, mstrox said:

They can never release it as an HBO Max exclusive - any attempt at making money off of it will invalidate the tax write off.  This movie will disappear.

 

Exactly.

 

According to what I saw online, with the tax write off they legally cannot release this movie or they will be in trouble for tax fraud. So this film will not see the light of day.

[AC1 3,902]

You all act as if it's the greatest injustice ever done to a movie since The Magnificent Ambersons. And to think that you all would be celebrating if it was a Zack Snyder movie!

 

What a world! What a world!

[mstrox 5,885]

I wouldn’t be celebrating if they did this to a Zack Snyder movie - even one of the bad ones!  Shelving the two in-production movies feels really gross, and shelving the handful of RELEASED movies even grosser.

 

It looks like at least some of the released movies got put out on physical media, so they’ll be preserved to some extent.

[rough cut 1,470]

Did y’all see the image director Adil El Arbi shared of Batgirl and Batman/Keaton? The director is in the middle.

 

 

Edit:

 

I came across this picture as well. I guess it’s an older one (?), but I hadn’t seen it before. Even though I wasn’t excited about the Batgirl movie at all, I do like the imagery of this one.

 

[Naïve Old Fart 7,984]

4 hours ago, rough cut said:

 

 

 

[rough cut 1,470]

I didn’t mean it was from an older movie, just that it was an older (already released) image from an unreleased project - but I didn’t know which one. I suspected maybe the Batgirl? So it seemed prudent to include it with the top image.

 

I did some googling and found out that the image is from the upcoming Flash movie, which I guess you (and others) already knew.

[Naïve Old Fart 7,984]

In that case, I apologise.

[rough cut 1,470]

A simple misunderstanding. You wrote nothing wrong and in no bad tone (at least none that I could detect). So no offense taken and no need to apologize. 

[crumbs 12,972]

22 hours ago, Andy said:

WB knows Keaton is a draw.  I don't understand why they don't just bring him back in his own film.  Old chiseled gristled Batman.

 

I'd say it's more reluctance from Keaton to tackle the role again as the lead character, than the studio being disinterested.

 

It's not clear how large his role was in Batgirl or The Flash, but I doubt it's significant.

 

WB are probably content sticking with Pattinson anyway. Why muddy the waters?

[Naïve Old Fart 7,984]

2 hours ago, rough cut said:

A simple misunderstanding. You wrote nothing wrong and in no bad tone (at least none that I could detect). So no offense taken and no need to apologize. 

If this still is from the FLASH movie (and there is no reason to disbelieve you), then the filmmakers have not only gotten the design of the Keaton batcave right, they have also replicated Stephan Czapsky's cinematography very faithfully.

[rough cut 1,470]

 

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

If this still is from the FLASH movie (and there is no reason to disbelieve you), then the filmmakers have not only gotten the design of the Keaton batcave right, they have also replicated Stephan Czapsky's cinematography very faithfully.

 

https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/the-flash-batman-michael-keaton-batsuit-symbol-watchmen-set-photo/
 

4 hours ago, crumbs said:

WB are probably content sticking with Pattinson anyway. Why muddy the waters?

 

Still, they have no problem muddying the waters with Affleck coming back as Batman in Aquaman 2. Does that contradict your statement a little bit?

I don’t know why I’m sticking my nose so far into this since I was never much of a Batman fan. Not even back in  ‘89, and back then Batman was everywhere. (There’s no superhero hype to this day to live up to the market saturation that the Batman movie had. Nothing since then even comes close!) Even as a kid/teenager, I only ever read a handful of the comics, and I used to read a little bit of everything!

 

So why do dig into it? I’m interested in the decision making process at WB and people’s difference of perception at why these decisions are made.

[Edmilson 4,973]

The Flash movie (which costed WB $200m) may be scrapped if Miller doesn't improve their behavior:

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/the-flash-fate-ezra-miller-problem-worsens-warners-1235196919/

[Disco Stu 15,475]

He's completely burned all the bridges, I don't see how they could possibly release it.

[Naïve Old Fart 7,984]

I was really looking forward to that.

Scrapped, all because some selfish unperson is behaving like a twat.

[HunterTech 742]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

He's completely burned all the bridges, I don't see how they could possibly release it.

 

And yet they apparently did additional photography in the middle of their rampage, so it's almost like WB desperately wants to think none of it is happening. The fact the only other two options are Miller making a statement discussing and apologizing for their actions or just not being in the promotion whatsoever really supports that notion.

[mstrox 5,885]

Money talks and they (WB) have a lot of money riding on this release.  It will be interesting to see exactly when they (Miller) become exactly box office poison ENOUGH to topple the hundreds of millions of expected profits.

 

I would put money on this movie seeing release, and then Miller being replaced Depp-style going forward.

[rough cut 1,470]

They might reshoot the Miller scenes? And then we’d have a decade of #releasethemillercut

[JNHFan2000 1,575]

They are gonna re do the entire DCEU.

So it doesn't really matter what happens with The Flash.

I still believe Black Adam, Shazam 2, Aquaman 2 & maybe The Flash as the last things of this DCEU.

And then they're gonna reboot the whole thing. Which they should. Because it's just a giant f*cking mess right now.

[mstrox 5,885]

I don’t really care what universe things are part of.  The DC Cinematic Universe has been a failure in my opinion, but some individual movies have been pretty good.  I don’t think there’s a need to write off any movie because it doesn’t “count” towards canon.  Canon sucks anyway.

[Edmilson 4,973]

24 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

And then they're gonna reboot the whole thing. Which they should. Because it's just a giant f*cking mess right now.

Exactly. If I was in charge, I'd use The Flash as a "series finale" to this iteration of the DCEU, then reboot everything into a new cinematic universe that would use Pattison's Batman as its first hero.

[Andy 2,565]

Have these been posted here yet?  Keaton photos from the Batgirl set.