Marian Schedenig 8,178 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Might be; I don't know the original release history. But in my ears, ESB sounds markedly different from the rest, with SW and ROTJ more in line with the rest of the series, both performance and engineering wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,322 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 They used a different recording engineer. So that must be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I thought they all originally came out on the same label, and Varese simply re-issued TESB later after it went OOP?Nope, the SW/CE3K combo and the ROTJ album were originally issued by RCA, while TESB was issued on LP by Chalfont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,322 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Aha, I was close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Ummm...no. Not at all. You said they were all originally released by the same label, and they werent... Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,327 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I hear a wrong note sometimes ... but that makes it lively and human, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,322 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I know, but I also said that Varese simply picked up the license after it went OOP, which they did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I hear a wrong note sometimes ... but that makes it lively and human, right?Yes!Maybe a modern re-release will fix all of the bad notes so it sounds more technically flawless!I know, but I also said that Varese simply picked up the license after it went OOP, which they did!Dude! That has been known forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,322 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I never said it hadn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,327 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Maybe a modern re-release will fix all of the bad notes so it sounds more technically flawless! But then we get something like The Skywalker Symphony and we don't want that, right? (hey look, Jay is just another wizard, how many wizards do we have right now?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Many people now prefer clinical and sterile sounding music that represents technical perfection when it comes to performance and recording. Human errors are an affront to their sensibilities and must be corrected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,327 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Auto-Tune and quantise everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I hear a wrong note sometimes ... but that makes it lively and human, right?The real question is, do you enjoy the Gerhardt Star Wars albums?I think they're spectacular and worthy versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Among the slew of Star Wars recordings, there are very few versions that stand out. Most are just mediocre and unnecessary, if not poor. Gerhardt's are like 40 minutes or so per film of pure Star Wars bliss. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 There aren't that much SW trilogy recordings that contain more then the concert themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Let's be honest, the primary reason for Gerhardt's albums being produced was to cash-in on the Star Wars craze(s) the years the films were originally released.The length of the albums had to do with the capacity of the vinyl LP. Offering anything but filled albums would have been unwise, considering the existence of the original soundtrack albums.There aren't that much SW trilogy recordings that contain more then the concert themes.The Utah Symphony SW trilogy album is the only one I can think of that has any tracks that are not normally performed in concert. Are there any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 That is one of the great SW rerecordings. So punchy and full of life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Indeed. In terms of musical performance, I find the Utah Symphony/Varujan Kojian recordings more polished than Gerhardt's. It sounds as though Kojian had more rehearsal time with his orchestra. As a musician, I know that an extra run-though (or two) of the piece before recording makes a huge difference in the end product.Looking at the back cover of the Gerhardt SW/Close Encounters album (on CD), I see that all 54 minutes were recorded in one day. Their procedure for each piece was probably:1. Run-through the entire piece (sight-reading)2. Resolve some of the trouble spots (to the conductor's liking)3. Record the piece (likely in a single take)Rehearsal time aside, I can tell that the Utah trumpeters are flat-out superior to those in the NPO. In SW scores, that's a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 The NPO was pooled the finest players of the London orchestras. I don't the Utah brass would come close to matching their work on Total Recall, or Rambo: First Blood part 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Star Wars/Close Encounters was recorded in a day? Not bad!The Kojian album is one of the only other worthy Star Wars recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 How about the Zubin Mentha rerecording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 That one is awesome too!You need the Gerhardts, Kojian, Mehta and a couple tracks off the Skywalker Symphony one. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 The Skywalker Symphony CD can be completely ignored! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 The Imperial March is cool on that one.I forgot to mention Pops in Space. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 The Skywalker Symphony CD can be completely ignored!Why do you say that? Granted, that album doesn't contain "Han Solo and the Princess" and some of the selections are under-tempo, but the performances are superb nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 No, the performances are quite dull and devoid of any really excitement. Which is weird considering this was conducted by JW himself.Maybe at the time he had performed his star wars music a few too many times with the Boston Pops. It all sounds very middle of the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I like The Imperial March and Jabba the Hutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Well you are wrong to do so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 So, let's recap.You need:- Star Wars, Empire and Jedi original album releases. Star Wars and Jedi are on CD (Star Wars sounds kinda meh, but simultaneously awesome and Jedi sounds the best it ever has), Empire only partially, so you need a good LP transfer for that one--Williams' album presentations are great- Star Wars Trilogy: The Original Soundtrack Anthology, in my opinion the definitive presentation of these scores- Star Wars, Empire and Jedi RCA Special Edition 2-disc sets, which contain the majority of the music but controversial sound quality and sequencing- Gerhardt's trilogy...fuck, Williams-Gerhardt > Lennon-McCartney- Zubin Mehta Star Wars/Close Encounters- Kojian Utah Symphony- Pops in Space, Williams' definitive Boston Pops album- possibly Skywalker Symphony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 The only OST I'm missing is Jedi. I just picked up the STTMP OST from ebay.//madcollector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 The 1983 German pressing of the Return of the Jedi album is a fucking jewel, as Tasha Yar would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 She would not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,178 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I like The Imperial March and Jabba the Hutt. And Asteroid Field. And I like the rest too, though Here They Come! is lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Fuck sake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 My reaction to all the Hobbit threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJH132 48 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I doubt that.In the Herrmann biography, Gerhardt is quoted as saying he was very apprehensive about the legendarily cranky composer seeing what the conductor had done to add a small transition between cues on the CITIZEN KANE recording. Herrmann approved it, adding only an indication for the orchestra. I think it could be very likely Gerhardt repeated a bar or two for good effect without Williams noting it in the score. I'm generally a fan of all Charles Gerhardt film recordings and think he did a lot for film music at the time.TJH Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdb408 3 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 The National Philharmonic was a recording orchestra assembled from the finest players of the London Orchestra scene. William Bard should have known that as a brass player!Exactly. It's not a regular famous orchestra playing concerts weekly with a deeply rooted history like the London Symphony is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 So is any version of the Hollywood Symphony Orchestra. Yet we don't complain about that!I would blame lack of rehearsal time on any performance flubs that might excist. I ask again, could the Utah orchestra nail Total Recall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I ask again, could the Utah orchestra nail Total Recall?Yes, the Utah Symphony c.1983 could have nailed Jerry Goldsmith's Total Recall score. No question about it. I'd bet that any top American symphony orchestra over the last 30+ years could have done it as good (or better) than the National Philharmonic Orchestra c.1990.Having the composer is present (or even better - conducting the orchestra) during the recording sessions of a new film score makes a huge difference. This was the case with Goldsmith's Total Recall.I would blame lack of rehearsal time on any performance flubs that might excist.Some musicians are just better than others at performing/recording on short notice. But the ability to sight-read is just one of the many skills required to be a world-class orchestral musician. Others include: the quality of tone/intonation, balance within the orchestra/section, the ability to play accurately at high/slow tempos, hit the high/low notes without issue.I applaud Mr. Gerhardt's efforts in recording the Star Wars albums, but the National Philharmonic Orchestra's performances do not sound as good as the original soundtrack recordings (London Symphony Orchestra, with Williams himself at the helm). Though, from the recordings I've heard, the NPO did steadily improve over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Goldsmith conducting didn't prevent the Graunke Symphony in Germany from being unable to meet the requirements this score needed, which is why they hired the NPO as a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'd guess that the Graunke Symphony was used to playing standard classical works and simply wasn't cutting it. London's orchestral musicians are world-renowned for their sight-reading capabilities, so they were ideal to perform/record the complex multi-meter pieces that Goldsmith wrote for Total Recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I still think the performances on the Gerhardts are awesome. Perfect? I suppose not technically, but, in their own way...yes. Yes they are. The Imperial March and Yoda's Theme are performed with more gusto than Williams' LSO versions. I also can't see him or anyone else topping Han Solo and the Princess concert version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,327 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 It's a bit odd that Williams didn't completely rerecord the OT. I love the sound of the orchestra of The Skywalker Symphony (it reminds me of Star Wars on vinyl) and wouldn't mind a complete rerecording with that sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 JW has never shown any interest in re-recording anything but a few suites or concert pieces of his own film work. So I'm hardly surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,327 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Well, Sony (or previous owners) could have urged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Who knows if they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'd guess that the Graunke Symphony was used to playing standard classical works and simply wasn't cutting it.There's nothing wrong with their performance on King Kong Lives.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Their Hellraiser 2 sounds weird in parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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