What have the last 15 years of big-screen Tolkien meant to you?

[Incanus 5,714]

OK. It's just me; I buy that, but at least VP wasn't created in a computer.

And how wonderful that stop motion floundering is!

[Romão 2,274]

Is it me, or is Verminthrax Perjorative a better-looking dragon?

Best dragon in movie history, hands down! And what an awesome name

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Is it me, or is Verminthrax Perjorative a better-looking dragon?

Yeah it's like, so much better, because it's old and stuff.

[KK 3,307]

Verminthrax is great, Smaug is better. At least in design (if you discount some of the shoddy last-minute scenes, Smaug wins in terms of effects too).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Romão 2,274]

Is it me, or is Verminthrax Perjorative a better-looking dragon?

Yeah it's like, so much better, because it's old and stuff.

The look is fantastic. That shot when he's breathing fire in mid air is still stunning. I could say the same, that Smaug is better, because it's new and stuff

[KK 3,307]

Smaug wins because he was written by Tolkien. End of story.

If you disagree, learn to deal with it.

Character wise, yeah, Smaug is.the greatest dragon of all time!

[Wojo 2,453]

I really like the female love interest in Dragonslayer, and it's a shame she died so young.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Only thing I like about Dragonslayer is the score. And some of the shots.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

My vote:

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Ugh I still remember how PJ wanted him to go mano-a-mano with Aragorn at the Black Gates.

Which is why I think the flaming eye was a good choice. I'd never actually seen him like that when reading the book, but I think it works in the film as a "tangible metaphor" kind of thing. How else to deal with him? Having him appear as an actual character would immediately rob him of all power and menace. I've heard people complain - about the book, mind you, before the films came out - that Sauron should have had a more active role in the finale, but all his menace stems from the idea that when you can actually grasp him as a character, you've already lost.

[KK 3,307]

Ugh I still remember how PJ wanted him to go mano-a-mano with Aragorn at the Black Gates.

I thank the stars every day for making PJ see the folly of such stupidity at the time.

[Faleel 5,346]

On the bright side, atleast even in that version of the finale, the destruction of the Ring was the only way to defeat Sauron.

[KK 3,307]

Ugh I still remember how PJ wanted him to go mano-a-mano with Aragorn at the Black Gates.

Which is why I think the flaming eye was a good choice. I'd never actually seen him like that when reading the book, but I think it works in the film as a "tangible metaphor" kind of thing. How else to deal with him? Having him appear as an actual character would immediately rob him of all power and menace. I've heard people complain - about the book, mind you, before the films came out - that Sauron should have had a more active role in the finale, but all his menace stems from the idea that when you can actually grasp him as a character, you've already lost.

Indeed! I never imagined the giant eye while reading the books either. But the problem is, how DO you depict the greatest evil you could possibly imagine? Putting some guy in a costume walking around, maybe with a badass voice, just couldn't do the idea justice. It would immediately undermine the enormity and scope of this evil. It would make him just another baddie. This is the most feared being on Middle-Earth, whose malice controls legions and has dominion over the dark, much like a God.

You just couldn't go the Darth Vader way...you just wouldn't feel the gravity of this force. Which is why the Eye worked quite well. In FotR, you spend so much time in the Shire, but in every scene after the Ring is brought to light, you feel that tension, that growing evil. Simple allusions to this eye, and you know this is something far more massive than it seems. Admittedly there were points where PJ faltered with the concept (where the Eye is literally searching for Frodo in Mordor), but those moments are by and large, inconsequential. And ultimately, you feel his presence all throughout the film, and this weighty darkness looming over the characters and the land. You just couldn't do that with your usual "Dark Lord on a throne" spiel. So kudos to PJ and team.

Problem is, that's exactly where they screw up in the Hobbit. Yes, it's been relatively ambiguous so far, but it won't be the case in BOFA. Suddenly you have the most powerful force on Middle-Earth manifested into a physical being, but having his ass kicked by 3 other old dudes...the world suddenly feels immensely smaller. When I first imagined the Dol Goldur sequence, before the films were announced, I imagined something far more impressionistic. The White Council driving Sauron out would be something more evocative, visceral and alluded to (through shifting of environments, etc etc), not actual hand-to-hand combat. But that's exactly what it seems to be...just ANOTHER fight. And the Nine, who the whole Council feared, are just going to get their asses handed to them by a 90 year old doing ninjitsu! It feels smaller, and frankly makes this all-powerful evil, seem kind of pathetic. I mean Sauron is literally going to run away?

Real shame, all of it.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

The depiction of Sauron through a sudden flash of awareness (when Gandalf goes to touch the Ring, or the palantír) was an inspired notion; it's one of the things that I thought was brilliant even the first time I saw the film. The experience that Frodo has, while wearing the Ring, with the image of an eye whose flames envelop the screen (including the magnified view of Barad-dûr from Amon Hen) is good, too. They both convey a sort of metaphysical terror. The electric eyeball on top of a tower isn't something I was ever able to buy into, though I suppose it's infinitely preferable to Sauron swaggering out with his sword or machine-gun.

[Faleel 5,346]

I wonder how it would have been received if it was a flaming version of his prologue form (like in TH) on top of the tower.

[KK 3,307]

That would do a poorer job of depicting the metaphysical nature of Sauron. Giving Sauron a defined form after the prologue could have been LotR's greatest failing. The eye was the smart route to go.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

Verminthrax was actually scary.

/dragons

[KK 3,307]

And the Nine, who the whole Council feared, are just going to get their asses handed to them by a 90 year old doing ninjitsu!

Jujistu, KK, jujitsu.

Only the Blue Wizards master the art of ninjitsu. You clearly need to reread the Silmarillion.

Sorry. I still need to get the Super Special Extended Peter Jackson-authorized Trilogy Expansion edition of the Silmarillion

[Uni 306]

And that's also why I was happy to see them integrate more of the Aragorn/Arwen backstory in the films (minus the strange deviations from Tolkien's own writings, i.e. Arwen first leaving for the West and later getting sick). Many people complained that they simply invented huge amounts of screen time from a "mere" appendix just to have a love story. What they failed to understand was that this appendix is immensely important for the book, and its story (or, especially, the Beren/Luthien story it mirrors) and all it touches upon (loss of innocence, longing for an eternally unchanging world, giving up an eternal life and a return to "paradise") is at the very heart of Tolkien's writings, including LOTR. Although I can't claim to have picked up on that during my first readings.

Unquestionably. As a Tolkien "purist," these were the good additions to the story. Something needed to be expressed about that whole idea, and the Aragorn/Arwen romance was the best place to do it. It involved extrapolating some conversations between Elrond and Arwen that Tolkien didn't actually write, of course, but there was nothing there that strayed out of reach of what the author was trying to say in the general themes of the books.

There's a motif in the finale of Bruckner's 8th symphony that has a similar vibe to me and always makes me melancholic.

I'll take that as a recommendation, and look into it!

It is the dichotomy of immortals yearning for death and end and envying the races who possess this gift and the mortals thirsting for eternal life that is also one of the central questions and themes of the legendarium.

All the points you made were excellent, but this was really the heart of it. When I talked about the balance of bitter and sweet, what's fascinating (as you indicated here) is that the two races each consider their own fate bitter and that of the other race sweeter than their own. The grass in Middle Earth was always greener on the other side, I guess. . . .

It was also just bloody frightening in places - Sauron was more than a boring flaming eyeball atop a tower: he was the Antichrist. I loved that! Jacko totally failed to convey that power of presence, sadly.

Ah that is a good point! The films sort of treat him as a flaming eyeball sadly. He is indeed much more the fallen angel who has no real equal in Middle Earth and he is unfathomably evil and alien and is always depicted as something terrible and uncomprehensible even to human (or hobbit or dwarven or elven) mind. The eye at the top of the tower felt highly simplistic but again this is where films can't capture the enormity of the idea so well when they have to rely on the visual medium to convey their message. Ugh I still remember how PJ wanted him to go mano-a-mano with Aragorn at the Black Gates.

Ugh I still remember how PJ wanted him to go mano-a-mano with Aragorn at the Black Gates.

Which is why I think the flaming eye was a good choice. I'd never actually seen him like that when reading the book, but I think it works in the film as a "tangible metaphor" kind of thing. How else to deal with him? Having him appear as an actual character would immediately rob him of all power and menace. I've heard people complain - about the book, mind you, before the films came out - that Sauron should have had a more active role in the finale, but all his menace stems from the idea that when you can actually grasp him as a character, you've already lost.

Indeed! I never imagined the giant eye while reading the books either. But the problem is, how DO you depict the greatest evil you could possibly imagine? Putting some guy in a costume walking around, maybe with a badass voice, just couldn't do the idea justice. It would immediately undermine the enormity and scope of this evil. It would make him just another baddie. This is the most feared being on Middle-Earth, whose malice controls legions and has dominion over the dark, much like a God.

So let's talk about this now, yes? All of these (great) points go to another issue with the films, which stems from an unfortunate but unavoidable reality: that literature's advantage over cinema is that books are able to seem, whereas movies can only show. Take, for example, an Edgar Allen Poe story: "The Pit and the Pendulum," let's say. The story is a masterwork of psychological terror, describing in detail the prolonged mental and physical torturing of a man captured during the Inquisition. It plays out in terrifying detail what it's like for a man trying to learn about his surroundings in a pitch-black environment. We're able to piece things together as he does. We feel, taste, smell every sensation just as he does. We're horrified, just as he is, when he encounters each element set against him—first the pit, then the pendulum. And we go through every minute of his agonizing anticipation as the blade inches lower with each swing toward his abdomen.

Now imagine translating that story—just as it is—to film. What would you have? The first hour would have no visuals at all, just a black screen, the sound of breathing that changes frequency as things that we can't see affect the character, some shuffling of hands and feet as he feels his way around, some stumbling, the sound of a body hitting the ground, then a rock falling into a deep chasm. Not much to go on. The second hour would consist of watching a man strapped to a table writhing around as a curved blade slowly arcs its way toward him. No dialogue, nothing else to hold our interest, just that interminable, awkward wait for a man's death with us wishing (somewhat rudely) that they'd just hurry it up so we could go mow the lawn.

So you'd have to adapt the story to make a movie out of it, right? But how? Well, you'd have to show what was going on during the first half. That means you'd need some lighting for it. But now you've instantly killed the whole blindness angle, which was the key element of that part of the story. He wouldn't have to feel his way around; a few glances sums everything up—including the pit, which has now lost its effect altogether. So then you strap him down, and just so it doesn't get boring, you speed things up so the blade reaches him in about 3 minutes. Much more intense, but you're total running time at this point is less than 10 minutes. Not much of a feature film.

So you'd have to add a buncha stuff that wasn't in the story to fill that time. And that's exactly what they used to do with the Poe pics (as Stephen King called them). They never even tried to resemble the stories they were "based" on, because there's no way you can do that and still have an interesting movie.

Now, obviously there's a lot more material to work with in LOTR, so that's not as big a problem overall. But there's no getting around the fact that a lot of the mood created so masterfully in the books is based on subtext, not on actual, real, tangible things. How do you film that and still remain faithful to the books? In short: you can't. It just can't be done. So you shrug and go with the next best thing. In some cases they got this stuff right: a voice for the One Ring, for instance—which wasn't in the books, but I thought was particularly effective. In some cases they couldn't quite nail it, but you forgive them because you know they couldn't do much better: an eye for Sauron (which, to be fair, is how the book describes him at points).

Given that Peter Jackson was directing these movies, however, in some cases they go horribly overboard. Remember how I talked about seeming vs. showing? Well, Mr. Jackson is a "shower." And he doesn't always settle for showing, either. He'll shove it in your face, shout it in your ear, make damn sure you don't miss what he so desperately wants to SHOW you. That approach led to some of the biggest problems I had with the series. Take, for instance, the scene in Lothlorien when Galadriel shows them her mirror and Frodo inadvertently tempts her with the ring. In the book, the description of the effect it has on her is covered in one sentence:

She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful.

That's it. And that's enough, because we're seeing her in that moment through Frodo's eyes, influenced by the power of the Ring and her own elven majesty. Was it good enough for PJ? Naw, because he had a budget for CGI, dammit, and he meant to squeeze it for every last bit of "cool" he could get his hands on. So where the book gave us the more compelling effect with sixteen words, the movie gave us the great green Jell-O monster in its place. (I said in my first post I had exactly two major problems with each of the first two films. If you hadn't guessed, this was one of the culprits from FOTR.)

Thankfully, PJ managed to restrain himself from that kind of nonsense through most of the run of LOTR. (If he had gone with the physical battle between Sauron and Aragorn at the Morannon, it might have ruined the best movie in one fell strike.) In the Hobbit films, however, those restraints have come off entirely. You can almost envision him standing behind the animators, kicking the backs of their chairs and shouting for MORE!!! What subtlety he did manage to show during the first trilogy has long since been lost, I'm afraid.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

There's a motif in the finale of Bruckner's 8th symphony that has a similar vibe to me and always makes me melancholic.

I'll take that as a recommendation, and look into it!

I'll always recommend nearly anything by Bruckner, as I'm sure you know.

Take, for example, an Edgar Allen Poe story: "The Pit and the Pendulum," let's say. The story is a masterwork of psychological terror, describing in detail the prolonged mental and physical torturing of a man captured during the Inquisition. It plays out in terrifying detail what it's like for a man trying to learn about his surroundings in a pitch-black environment.

A very good example. I'm completely unfamiliar with The Pit and the Pendulum (except for the title), but that's actually another thing some friends have complained about in ROTK: That Shelob's Lair is far too bright. Well, of course it is, compared to the book, where they grasp around in total darkness and stench for who knows how long. Years before they made the films I imagined how that might work out *if* someone adapted it literally, and even then it was clear to me that nobody would ever actually do it. So you need some light. And if you have some light, the only point is to show some stuff, so you need enough light to see it. Shelob, Gollum's ditty and Shore's score make up for what might be missing compared to the book.

That's it. And that's enough, because we're seeing her in that moment through Frodo's eyes, influenced by the power of the Ring and her own elven majesty. Was it good enough for PJ? Naw, because he had a budget for CGI, dammit, and he meant to squeeze it for every last bit of "cool" he could get his hands on. So where the book gave us the more compelling effect with sixteen words, the movie gave us the great green Jell-O monster in its place. (I said in my first post I had exactly two major problems with each of the first two films. If you hadn't guessed, this was one of the culprits from FOTR.)

I find it interesting how strong so many react to this bit, because I don't really have much of a problem with it at all. I think it works in the context of the film. Blanchett's acting certainly helps.

[KK 3,307]

That's it. And that's enough, because we're seeing her in that moment through Frodo's eyes, influenced by the power of the Ring and her own elven majesty. Was it good enough for PJ? Naw, because he had a budget for CGI, dammit, and he meant to squeeze it for every last bit of "cool" he could get his hands on. So where the book gave us the more compelling effect with sixteen words, the movie gave us the great green Jell-O monster in its place. (I said in my first post I had exactly two major problems with each of the first two films. If you hadn't guessed, this was one of the culprits from FOTR.)

I find it interesting how strong so many react to this bit, because I don't really have much of a problem with it at all. I think it works in the context of the film. Blanchett's acting certainly helps.

Indeed. I personally felt it was a good example of the Ring's devastating power, was still in line with a filmic adaptation of Tolkien's intentions.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Ugh I still remember how PJ wanted him to go mano-a-mano with Aragorn at the Black Gates.

I thank the stars every day for making PJ see the folly of such stupidity at the time.

And even if he had done it in RotK, I bet you everything I own that it would have been better than the final scene of Dol Guldur.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Safe bet, since we'll never know!

[KK 3,307]

Right, but it could have marred the integrity of everything that came before, and would likely have tainted the film for good, for me at least.

Just one scene, could have pulled it down to the level of the Hobbit films!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Right, but it could have marred the integrity of everything that came before, and would likely have tainted the film for good, for me at least.

Three years ago, I would have said the same thing.

Today, after The Hobbit, LotR can be marred by no decision PJ wisely discarded back in the day.

[KK 3,307]

From what I've read though...PJ seems to have included that scene in this film in some way anyways...

Don't tell me anymore. Don't want to going in hating it already.

[gkgyver 1,645]

From what I've read though...PJ seems to have included that scene in this film in some way anyways...

Don't tell me anymore. Don't want to going in hating it already.

What, Sauron fighting someone? That doesn't happen in BOTFA.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Since I discovered Tolkien though FOTR, and his books have become a huge part and influence of my life, greater then I would be comfortable to admit, even here.

I would say it has meant a huge deal to me.

[Uni 306]

Take, for example, an Edgar Allen Poe story: "The Pit and the Pendulum," let's say. The story is a masterwork of psychological terror, describing in detail the prolonged mental and physical torturing of a man captured during the Inquisition. It plays out in terrifying detail what it's like for a man trying to learn about his surroundings in a pitch-black environment.

A very good example. I'm completely unfamiliar with The Pit and the Pendulum (except for the title), but that's actually another thing some friends have complained about in ROTK: That Shelob's Lair is far too bright. Well, of course it is, compared to the book, where they grasp around in total darkness and stench for who knows how long. Years before they made the films I imagined how that might work out *if* someone adapted it literally, and even then it was clear to me that nobody would ever actually do it. So you need some light. And if you have some light, the only point is to show some stuff, so you need enough light to see it. Shelob, Gollum's ditty and Shore's score make up for what might be missing compared to the book.

You should give it a read. It's one of Poe's very best stories, and well worth a mere 20 minutes of your time.

As for the Shelob's Lair example--I'd completely forgotten about it, and it's the perfect corollary to what I was talking about! Well, almost perfect. Actually . . . now that I think about it, it doesn't quite fall into the same category as what we were talking about, because that scene didn't have to struggle to find a visual representation of a mental or emotional subtext (like Galadriel seeming to grow larger or Sauron represented as a great eye). In both the book and the film, the sequence featured actual, tangible physical threats, like massive webs, and something like a big-ass creepy spider in there somewhere, too. So "turning on the lights" didn't really alter the content of the thing too much (though it did a bit--I would rather have had to make my way through the movie's lair than the one in the book, that's for sure).

Since I discovered Tolkien though FOTR, and his books have become a huge part and influence of my life, greater then I would be comfortable to admit, even here.

I would say it has meant a huge deal to me.

That's a powerful statement, especially coming from you, Stefan. Fortunately, you don't have to admit anything you're not comfortable with, at least where this subject's concerned. Most of us know the kind of effect you're describing. It's gratifying to know they meant so much to you.

And maybe that's ultimately the best thing to come out of these movies being made. The books were always out there, and would always have been available, but there were millions of people who might never have read them if not for the prompting of the films. That really makes the whole enterprise worth it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Since I discovered Tolkien though FOTR, and his books have become a huge part and influence of my life, greater then I would be comfortable to admit, even here.

Share your feelings with us, and gain strength from the sharing.

[KK 3,307]

I'd like to hear your own story as well Alvar.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Tell us your sad story, Alvar!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

OK. It's just me; I buy that, but at least VP wasn't created in a computer.

And how wonderful that stop motion floundering is!

It's "Go motion", Canc !

[Incanus 5,714]

OK. It's just me; I buy that, but at least VP wasn't created in a computer.

And how wonderful that stop motion floundering is!

It's "Go motion", Canc !

From mighty all-knowing Wikipedia:

Go motion is a variation of stop motion animation which incorporates motion blur into each frame

So I was right!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

Well, whatever it is, it looks pretty good! Anyway, I prefer to read Cinefix, as opposed to Wiki.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

You should give it a read. It's one of Poe's very best stories, and well worth a mere 20 minutes of your time.

I plan to.

I saw the third Hobbit film today. For all their faults, I've overall been a defender of much of the first two films. But the third part seems entirely beyond redemption. EVERYTHING that bothered me about PJ's other Tolkien films is exaggerated beyond comprehension here. EVERYTHING I've been saying above about what Tolkien means to me is nearly entirely absent. There are a couple of minor (read: short scenes of a few seconds each) exceptions throughout the film, and two major ones: The final 5 or so minutes, which are nearly spot on (but sadly still miss the mark after everything that comes before), and Freeman's absolutely brilliant performance.

I might actually rank this below Armageddon.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Dragon-sickness is the new space dementia?

[Faleel 5,346]

I saw the third Hobbit film today. For all their faults, I've overall been a defender of much of the first two films. But the third part seems entirely beyond redemption. EVERYTHING that bothered me about PJ's other Tolkien films is exaggerated beyond comprehension here. EVERYTHING I've been saying above about what Tolkien means to me is nearly entirely absent. There are a couple of minor (read: short scenes of a few seconds each) exceptions throughout the film, and two major ones: The final 5 or so minutes, which are nearly spot on (but sadly still miss the mark after everything that comes before), and Freeman's absolutely brilliant performance.

"Hmmm... Yes... that will have to go."

[Incanus 5,714]

PJ has obvioulsy been reading between the lines when he adapted the Hobbit. He just managed to read the few actual lines on the last pages.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

PJ has obvioulsy been reading between the lines when he adapted the Hobbit.

He didn't read between the lines. He added lines between the lines.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Is Alan Dean Foster writing the novelisation?

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

I just got back from watching the third film, and I'm kind of mess from it. I had no ante-prequel experience with Star Wars, so I didn't really have expectations that could fail to be met. This, though, I was at the perfect age when LOTR came out. I had just finished reading The Hobbit when I saw the first trailer for Fellowship. I became obsessed. I don't even know how many times I saw TTT and ROTK in theaters (my parents didn't think I was old enough to see FOTR at the time). I read and re-read The Lord of the Rings, and then I graduated to the "hard drugs" of the Arda mythos. Although Home Alone is what made me a film music fan, it was LOTR that got be thinking about it on a different level. A Magpie's Nest was my introduction to analyzing themes, and really to music theory in general. LOTR dominated my adolescence.

And then comes The Hobbit. I'm just reminded of the closing line to Fanboys: "What if the movie sucks?" From the moment the teaser music clip from "Radagast the Brown," I was stoked. I saw AUJ right when it came out, and for the first half of the movie, it had that old atmosphere that was so enticing. It felt like going home. Sure, the second act wasn't as good (with the exception of "Riddles in the Dark") and the musical decisions for the climax were terrible, but I figured the end product was just a result of Jackson not giving himself enough time to put the same level of polish on the film that he had in the past, and he would both have learned his lesson regarding time management and gotten used to the new technology, and that Shore would be given a better timetable to work on the next two. I didn't see DOS until February due to some health problems, and it felt like a major step backward. Although Tauriel was handled better than I expected, the climax of the film was an exercise in the absurd, and I had to restrain myself from screaming at the screen for the Sauron reveal.* What even was the point of Stephen Fry's character? On the other hand, I absolutely love the score, and feel like it really lived up to the greatness I'd come to expect from Shore's Middle-Earth scores.

And now comes whatever the hell I just watched tonight. What an utter abysmal failure of a film. The return to Bag End was a nice endcap to the series, but... oh God... I can't even process the rest of it. I forget who said it, but somebody on this board made a comment to the likes of "How ironic that the only man who could figure out how to make the supposedly unfilmable Lord of the Rings couldn't figure out the much simpler The Hobbit?" Whoever said it, dead on. I'd eulogize Middle-Earth on screen myself, but Carson Cistulli said it best (although this isn't what he was referring to): "As is almost always the case, reality has once again failed to present us with the best possible version of itself."

*"It was afterwards said that they came out of the far west and were messengers sent to contest the power of Sauron, and to unite all those who had the will to resist him; but they were forbbidden to match his power with power, or to seek to dominate Elves or Men by force or fear."

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

The original trilogy means a great deal to me. They helped shape my childhood The new Hobbit films means next to nothing to me. I didn't even see the second one in the theater and I don't have any intention to see the 3rd one in the theater either.

[MedigoScan 324]

The new trilogy was entertaining to me

not life-gripping like the original, but still fun to see with the whole family each christmas

[Jay 37,353]

Thanks for that, Gnome! A nice read. Agree with a lot of what you say.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Going to IMAX tonight with my brother and father. Expect to enjoy it for what it is.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Gnome, i pretty much have the same feelings. Nevertheless i enjoyed many parts of BOTFA the first time in the cinema. It was the second viewing (which will be my last) where i realized how weak the film really is. I was endlessly bored by all the overblown fight scenes (Super Legolas) and the annoying dumb and useless Alfrid character.

The first and the last 10 minutes were great. Everything in between is a complete mess with no rewatch value. I don't even know how the EE can help this film at all