Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 One of my very favourite concert works by JW, up there with Heartwood, Soundings and the Violin (1st) and Flute Concerti. I love the menace of the opening--no one does stillness quite like Williams. You know it's going to spring to life, but not when or how. It brings to mind his eeriest film cues, such as The Tractor Scene (THE RIVER), The Secret Passage (TOD), Main Title... The White House (NIXON), the second half of The Keeper of the Grail (TLC), The Emperor's Throne Room (ROTJ) or Zam's Dirty Trick (ATOC). Score and Dixon Hill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thank you so much for introducing me to this! I'd heard all the others you mentioned, but I'd never heard this one. Wow, this is amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 The dancing central panel of TreeSong climaxes in that bracing‚ minimalistic sounding music so associated now with open space. It’s the music of vaulting ambition‚ achievement‚ the homerun. But without the moving pictures. When ‘The Tree Sings’ in the final panel it does so at length. This is the most beautiful and welldirected music in the piece – meaning that in Williams’ case it is sometimes better to arrive than to journey. There is a tendency here towards a little too much of what I would call ‘musical grouting’. It’s almost as if freedom for Williams is too much of a good thing. The music begins to lose identity and focus. One starts to crave the quick fixes of his movie work. I particularly felt this with the earlier piece – the Violin Concerto of 1974 – where a few too many yards of toccatalike workingout (Prokofiev and Bartók without their imperative) prove less purposeful‚ less interesting than Williams might think.(http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/williams-treesong-violin-concerto-3-pieces-from-schindlers-list) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 This puts me in the mood to do a read-along of this. I'll post some thoughts after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I honestly haven't listened to this in like 10 years, maybe I'll give it another listen soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 There is a tendency here towards a little too much of what I would call ‘musical grouting’. It’s almost as if freedom for Williams is too much of a good thing. The music begins to lose identity and focus.If this is 'musical grouting', then it's most colourful and evocative cement and sand I've ever seen, along with the most balletic tile action.This puts me in the mood to do a read-along of this. I'll post some thoughts after.Could we do a group a read-long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Certainly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 There is a tendency here towards a little too much of what I would call ‘musical grouting’. It’s almost as if freedom for Williams is too much of a good thing. The music begins to lose identity and focus.If this is 'musical grouting', then it's most colourful and evocative cement and sand I've ever seen, along with the most balletic tile action.He probably meant grooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 This is so brilliantly orchestrated. And when that horn/cello counterpoint comes in in the third movement, that is such classic Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Such an excellent piece with exquisite shimmering orchestrations. Has that arboreal atmosphere Williams is so adept in evoking with his concert works and infused with that special kind of joy and inspiration he finds in trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Is it shameful that I haven't heard this yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Is it shameful that I haven't heard this yet?Yes. Come GP and Sharky, let's gang up on him and berate and ridicule KK for his lack of good sense and refinement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 You suck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Ah this is the good old JWFan way. Shaming and ridicule build character.All these concert work threads remind me that I should do one of my annual JW concert work listening binges. Perhaps I'll finally be able to get inside the Flute Concerto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Forgive me!! I shall listen to this in the morning and rid myself of my great shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Forgive me!! I shall listen to this in theornibg and rid myself of my great shame!Edit your post before Alvar or TGP make fun of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I know not of what you speak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Humiliating...isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Perhaps I'll finally be able to get inside the Flute Concerto.I find it quite evocative - hardly workout material though. I find TREESONG rather boring (the final cadence of SEVEN YEARS IN TIBET stretched over 15 minutes) but the Violin Concerto is a masterpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I haven't listened to that in a long, long time. I do love the world premiere recording of his first violin concerto (yes, the one with the flute concerto). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,983 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I love both violin concertos.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Forgive me!! I shall listen to this in theornibg and rid myself of my great shame!Edit your post before Alvar or TGP make fun of you.HAHAHAHA!!! Theornibg... Theornibg... This is one for the ages!He tried to get rid of his great shame, but it only got bigger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Ehh it's okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,463 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I'm not totally in love with this particular piece either, but it's certanily nice enough. More accesible than some of his other works. And I heartily recommend the whole Gil Shaham CD on Deutsche Gramophon (which includes this, as well as a great version of the violin concerto and three pieces from SCHINDLER). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Forgive me!! I shall listen to this in theornibg and rid myself of my great shame!Edit your post before Alvar or TGP make fun of you.HAHAHAHA!!! Theornibg... Theornibg... This is one for the ages!He tried to get rid of his great shame, but it only got bigger!It could be my new name or something! Sounds pretty epic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Don't try to turn your blunder into something epic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I think I prefer JW's concert works to all but a handful of his scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 The dancing central panel of TreeSong climaxes in that bracing‚ minimalistic sounding music so associated now with open space. It’s the music of vaulting ambition‚ achievement‚ the homerun. But without the moving pictures. When ‘The Tree Sings’ in the final panel it does so at length. This is the most beautiful and welldirected music in the piece – meaning that in Williams’ case it is sometimes better to arrive than to journey. There is a tendency here towards a little too much of what I would call ‘musical grouting’. It’s almost as if freedom for Williams is too much of a good thing. The music begins to lose identity and focus. One starts to crave the quick fixes of his movie work. I particularly felt this with the earlier piece – the Violin Concerto of 1974 – where a few too many yards of toccatalike workingout (Prokofiev and Bartók without their imperative) prove less purposeful‚ less interesting than Williams might think.(http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/williams-treesong-violin-concerto-3-pieces-from-schindlers-list)I feel a bit like that ("better to arrive than to journey") about some other concert pieces by Williams, like the flute and the trumpet concertos, and I'm also not a big fan of the tuba and bassoon concertos. I somehow understand what the guy is saying, and I have found myself thinking similarly in some occasions. But I certainly don't feel like that about the first Violin Concerto and Treesong, which are my two favourite concert works by Williams together with Soundings (that is, excluding the suites from the film scores). Treesong is very evocative, with a wonderful and very original orchestration and nice harmonic colours almost at every bar, from the beginning to the end. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,463 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I feel a bit like that ("better to arrive than to journey") about some other concert pieces by Williams, like the flute and the trumpet concertos, and I'm also not a big fan of the tuba and bassoon concertos.Really? The bassoon concerto (The Five Sacred Trees) is my favourite concert work of Williams -- by FAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 This is one of those wonderful compositions that inspires speculation about what sort of music Williams would've created if he hadn't gone in for film scoring.Forgive me!! I shall listen to this in theornibg and rid myself of my great shame!Edit your post before Alvar or TGP make fun of you.HAHAHAHA!!! Theornibg... Theornibg... This is one for the ages!He tried to get rid of his great shame, but it only got bigger!He simply shifted mentally toward his avatar for a moment. Happens from time to time. He was saying, "I shall listen to it in Theornibg, the holding of Theorned, son of Theorningas, near the borders of Fangorn, where the surroundings will surely give the piece a more appropriate setting for proper meditation." KK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 This is one of those wonderful compositions that inspires speculation about what sort of music Williams would've created if he hadn't gone in for film scoring.Not if you ask Stef or KM, who will tell you that Williams must be held at gunpoint when composing these since they're not really "where his heart lies." Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 This is one of those wonderful compositions that inspires speculation about what sort of music Williams would've created if he hadn't gone in for film scoring.Forgive me!! I shall listen to this in theornibg and rid myself of my great shame!Edit your post before Alvar or TGP make fun of you.HAHAHAHA!!! Theornibg... Theornibg... This is one for the ages!He tried to get rid of his great shame, but it only got bigger!He simply shifted mentally toward his avatar for a moment. Happens from time to time. He was saying, "I shall listen to it in Theornibg, the holding of Theorned, son of Theorningas, near the borders of Fangorn, where the surroundings will surely give the piece a more appropriate setting for proper meditation."And this is why you're one of my favourites here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I feel a bit like that ("better to arrive than to journey") about some other concert pieces by Williams, like the flute and the trumpet concertos, and I'm also not a big fan of the tuba and bassoon concertos.Really? The bassoon concerto (The Five Sacred Trees) is my favourite concert work of Williams -- by FAR!It doesn't work for me. I know it is a favourite of many fans, I am sure also Williams is very proud of that piece, also in relation with his source of inspiration, but I don't find it very interesting from the point of view of orchestration (at least, I much prefer both violin concertos). Also, there is something about these musical phrases with big melodic "jumps", which Williams uses so often in his concert music, that for me does not sound nice on the bassoon. I don't think there is some objective point to it, it's probably just my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I don't dislike that one but I don't often go back to it. The first movement probably gets the most plays from me. I like that gradual climax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,903 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Ah this is the good old JWFan way. Shaming and ridicule build character.All these concert work threads remind me that I should do one of my annual JW concert work listening binges. Perhaps I'll finally be able to get inside the Flute Concerto.I love the Slatkin CD that combines the Flute Concerto with the Violin Concerto. Those are two very substantial works that are quiet different in style and inspiration but both lyrical, finely crafted and dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,463 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I feel a bit like that ("better to arrive than to journey") about some other concert pieces by Williams, like the flute and the trumpet concertos, and I'm also not a big fan of the tuba and bassoon concertos.Really? The bassoon concerto (The Five Sacred Trees) is my favourite concert work of Williams -- by FAR!It doesn't work for me. I know it is a favourite of many fans, I am sure also Williams is very proud of that piece, also in relation with his source of inspiration, but I don't find it very interesting from the point of view of orchestration (at least, I much prefer both violin concertos). Also, there is something about these musical phrases with big melodic "jumps", which Williams uses so often in his concert music, that for me does not sound nice on the bassoon. I don't think there is some objective point to it, it's probably just my taste. Probably, yeah. FIVE SACRED TREES just nails it for me. Williams is of course brilliant in his woodwind writing (one of my favourite aspects of his music), and manages to inject his trademark lyricism here, while at the same time keeping it modern and not 'hokey'. It's a great companion piece to Hovhaness' glorious "Mysterious Mountain" later on on the album. Curiously, however, I never quite latched on to his oboe concerto. For some reason, the woodwind writing was a bit more 'detached' here.But we can at least agree on the violin concerto (he's only written ONE "pure" violin concerto, btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 The Violin Concerto is of course brilliant, but I rarely ever listen to it. It's like overhearing Williams pouring his heart out to his psychoanalyst - moving and cathartic yes, but too much can be emotionally draining. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The Violin Concerto is of course brilliant, but I rarely ever listen to it. It's like overhearing Williams pouring his heart out to his psychoanalyst - moving and cathartic yes, but too much can be emotionally draining.Yes there is palpable anguish in the piece I feel. One could easily imagine Williams poured some of the emotional pain of the passing of his wife into the piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Williams on his symphony. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Thanks for sharing this Sharky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 That's all bullshit. He's obviously trying to hide his greater love of fanfares so that the classical elite will let him sit with them at lunch. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Finally got to this piece! I love the first and third movement. That opening, just immediately sends chills down your spine. There's something incredibly evocative about it, bordering on eerie mysticism. Really enjoyed the third movement and how it shimmers as the violin laments on top, eventually climaxing with the original opening motif returning in counterpoint. And then Williams brings us back to that darkness again.Second movement is great too, brilliantly orchestrated and performed, but it didn't have as much of that darkness I loved in the opening and coldness. I love that Adams-esque climax at 3:48 though.Great piece!Williams on his symphony.If this isn't proof of where Williams "true heart lies", then I don't know what is.Thanks Sharky! Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 If this isn't proof of where Williams "true heart lies", then I don't know what is.Thanks Sharky!I have always found Williams has balanced his personal non-film concert work side well with his movie assignments and that is obviously how he likes it, best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Always hilarious how you boys take such things seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Boys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 If this isn't proof of where Williams "true heart lies", then I don't know what is.Thanks Sharky!I have always found Williams has balanced his personal non-film concert work side well with his movie assignments and that is obviously how he likes it, best of both worlds.Right. It's as he says, as time progresses, more of his private self seeps into his commercial works, and the line between the two becomes blurred. There is clearly a lot himself devoted to both his film music and concert music.But to say that the 80s fanfares were where his true voice and heart solely lied wouldn't be quite right. And Steef might claim he kids, but I have little doubt that KM meant every word of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Boys?Boyos, laddies, lads, whippersnappers and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 They are but children in my eyes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 This is one of those wonderful compositions that inspires speculation about what sort of music Williams would've created if he hadn't gone in for film scoring.Forgive me!! I shall listen to this in theornibg and rid myself of my great shame!Edit your post before Alvar or TGP make fun of you.HAHAHAHA!!! Theornibg... Theornibg... This is one for the ages!He tried to get rid of his great shame, but it only got bigger!He simply shifted mentally toward his avatar for a moment. Happens from time to time. He was saying, "I shall listen to it in Theornibg, the holding of Theorned, son of Theorningas, near the borders of Fangorn, where the surroundings will surely give the piece a more appropriate setting for proper meditation."And this is why you're one of my favourites here!I thought you'd get a kick outta that. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Been listening to this piece quite a bit recently. Really nice! My favorite part is definitely the second movement climax. Reminds me of "Soundings." I love the jazzy and frenetic buildup, and then I love how the wild, very Soundings-esque wind runs come in, and the strings just build and build underneath before that sublime moment at 3:28 (brass?), which is a fresh and joyful tone color unlike any I've ever heard. And then the exultant bit leading to the Soundings-esque rapid strings at 3:40. And then later the peaceful return with the softly playing vibraphone or whatever that is. Here's where the real awesomeness begins (not that the build-up before isn't great too): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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