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BETTER CALL SAUL


Jay

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34 minutes ago, Jay said:

I love how elaborate this scheme is, busting open his safe only to put everything back into a replica with only 1 new item added. 

 

Any scene with Mike just going about his business and leaving me going "what the fuck is he doing?" is great. I think my favourites are 3.) when he makes the spike trap with the garden hose and nails, 2.) when he throws the shoes with the drugs in them over the telephone wire, and 1.) when he steals Headberg's ID and does ihis "consulting" work at the Madrigal warehouse, just becasue he's bored and wants to make sure his money is being laundered by a competent company.

 

:lol:

 

38 minutes ago, Jay said:

I am a bit confused, however, about the plan here: By leaving the phone number of the motel Nacho is hiding in, that leads the Salamancas right to him... but if they were to capture him alive and torture him for information, he could confirm that Gus was behind the hit.  So are we supposed to believe Gus took the risk that they would kill Nacho without asking him any questions?  Usually he's not that risky.

 

I'm not sure Gus has much of a choice. He's trying to have Nacho eliminiated while not implicating himself. If a "mysterious third party" were to suddenly kill him, who would the Cousins and Bolsa think did it? I think by giving Nacho a gun in the hotel room, the hope was that he'd get into a gunfight with the Cousins and be killed.

 

40 minutes ago, Jay said:

The Kettlemans are back!  Boy, were all their scenes this week terrific!  It was already a nice bonus to get them in that "American Greed" video, but this is even better!  All three of these scenes were so amusing and funny, super well done!

 

This should be the next spin-off.

 

41 minutes ago, Jay said:

The sequence where Mike again stands up for Nacho and tells Gus Nacho's father should not be involved was great, especially with the quickness that Tyrus pulled a gun on him. 

 

It was amazing how tense this scene was considering we know what happens to all 3 characters. Also, Mike has the best "I really don't give a shit that there's a gun in my face" expression ever!

 

42 minutes ago, Jay said:

The final shot of a car following Jimmy and Kim away from the Kettlemans.... my first thought was cartel/Mike stuff, because that's what we're set up to think in this show.  But I think it absolutely has to be someone hired by Hamlin to follow Jimmy.

 

Good point - I hadn't even considered Howard as a possibility. I wouldn't expect it to be him - but it could be someone he hired. Ernie? Or did he get fired from HHM? :lol:

 

It's either that, or the ghost of Chuck.

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45 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think that Howard is already on to them

 

That's a good theory. It would certainly add another level of suspense and more opportunities for confrontation... on top of everything else that's going on. Things could get incredibly messy!

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

They also said the Kettlemans purposely set up their business near local casinos knowing it would be easier to scam people out of the full refunds they were entitled to.  This is makes it so much funnier they they keep playin the victim card, when they are among the biggest assholes in the show lol.

 

They are in denial about being criminals. It's hilarious.

 

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Again I am struggling to remember any of the interesting facts shared on the insider podcast for episode 2

 

The second podcast wasn't nearly as interesting as the first.

 

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Another idle musing.  Back in episode 1 when Jimmy screwed up and accidentally said Lalo's name... I wonder if this is a clue the cops, or the DEA, will use to gain more insight into the Salamanca crime family or even the whole cartel structure.  It will be interesting if Lalo finally gets caught/killed as a result of this slipup, especially if it happens right before he's going to do something that would really make things bad for our heroes.

 

I guarantee this will come up again. Though I'm sure it will make things worse for Jimmy, not necessarily so much for Lalo.

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1 minute ago, Anthony said:

Any scene with Mike just going about his business and leaving me going "what the fuck is he doing?" is great. I think my favourites are 3.) when he makes the spike trap with the garden hose and nails, 2.) when he throws the shoes with the drugs in them over the telephone wire, and 1.) when he steals Headberg's ID and does ihis "consulting" work at the Madrigal warehouse, just becasue he's bored and wants to make sure his money is being laundered by a competent company.

 

:lol:

 

:lol: 

 

I also like the carbon paper under the doormat trick, and the taking apart the car to look for the bug montage

 

1 minute ago, Anthony said:

I'm not sure Gus has much of a choice. He's trying to have Nacho eliminiated while not implicating himself. If a "mysterious third party" were to suddenly kill him, who would the Cousins and Bolsa think did it? I think by giving Nacho a gun in the hotel room, the hope was that he'd get into a gunfight with the Cousins and be killed.

 

Yup, I think you're right, that makes the most sense.  Good call.

 

1 minute ago, Anthony said:

It was amazing how tense this scene was considering we know what happens to all 3 characters. Also, Mike has the best "I really don't give a shit that there's a gun in my face" expression ever!

 

Ha! Yes!

 

1 minute ago, Anthony said:

Good point - I hadn't even considered Howard as a possibility. I wouldn't expect it to be him - but it could be someone he hired. Ernie? Or did he get fired from HHM? :lol:

 

It's either that, or the ghost of Chuck.

 

Oh yea, I wasn't thinking it was literally Hamlin himself, just someone he hired.

 

1 minute ago, LSH said:

That's a good theory. It would certainly add another level of suspense and confrontation on top of everything else that's going on. Things could get incredibly messy!

 

I honestly think that Jim and Kimmy WANTED Howard to suspect them for the cocaine and him having someone follow them is all part of their plan.  Something along the lines of painting him as paranoid or vindictive or both or whatever

 

2 minutes ago, Anthony said:

The second podcast wasn't nearly as interesting as the first.

 

Yea, true.  And it was rushed.

 

2 minutes ago, Anthony said:

I guarantee this will come up again. Though I'm sure it will make things worse for Jimmy, not necessarily so much for Lalo.

 

I guess so, but we know he ends up surviving everything and being a successful and well-paid lawyer until Walt's downfall.  Oh man, imagine if he ends up a mole, and is actually working for the DEA the whole time during BB?

 

 

Oh I remember some of the Insider podcast stories now.  Vince played the observer guy in the room for the one shot where Nacho sees him from his room.  This was because it was so hard to get the movement exactly right and Vince had a portable screen that showed him the camera angle.  They said it took over 200 takes!  Crazy.  The stunt guy who pulled off Nacho's jump out the air conditioner hole did it so perfectly on the first take, Vince thought it was unrealistic and too super-hero-y, so it was the stunman's idea to slightly limp afterward to make it seem more realistic.

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Great episodes, squeaked in delight when the Kettlemans returned. I loved the bit where Gus breaks the glass and picks it up, to show how nervous he is under all his Gusness. Reminded me of the earlier scene with cleaning the oil frying thing over and over.

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It's so funny that the equivalent for Gus of a typical scene where someone on a show like this is frustrated would throw something around or break something... for Gus it's just accidentally knocking a glass over lol.

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30 minutes ago, Jay said:

I also like the carbon paper under the doormat trick

 

I forgot about that one, but I think it's been the only one where I figured it out before the reveal.

 

30 minutes ago, Jay said:

Vince played the observer guy in the room for the one shot where Nacho sees him from his room.  This was because it was so hard to get the movement exactly right and Vince had a portable screen that showed him the camera angle.

 

This was the only story I was going to share, but forgot. He said that even with the portable screen it was really difficult to get right. And he doesn't know which take they used in the end. So it MIGHT be the only Vince Gilligan cameo in BB or BCS.

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Right, in the end he didn't' even remember if they used one of his takes or one of the earlier ones lol

 

Has Peter ever done an on-screen cameo in either show?

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No that I know of. Melissa Bernstein is on the school busses in the Breaking Bad pilot and finale episodes. Moira Walley Beckett is at the carwash in Ozymandias. And Bryan Cranston is one of the party goers as the start of season 4 when Jessie opens his house to everyone.

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Cool new history of the Saul character

 

https://www.theringer.com/tv/2022/4/12/23021122/better-call-saul-goodman-oral-history-breaking-bad-bob-odenkirk

 

Rhea Seehorn's comments are the best, but one interesting fact is that the first shot of jimmy in 601 was actually a pickup shot done after his heart attack

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Hmmm. My memory must be bad, because even though I fairly recently rewatched BREAKING BAD, I could have sworn

Spoiler

Nacho appears in it. But apparently not. Dead and buried. A shame, because he was a great character -- but I suppose in a way, his arc had come to a close.

 

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Better Call Saul 6x03 Rock and Hard Place

 

Holy cow what an episode.

 

Cold open - Initially I was of mixed mind about this; Some gorgeous visuals at times, but I found the way the camera moved around to be unusually (for the show) stilted and awkward, like a computer program was telling it where to move instead of it being a natural, organic look at things.  I'll circle back to what I think this cold open means at the end

 

Kim - Oh man that scene where DA Ericsen calls Kim into her office and lays out everything they know was great.  Of course they've realized De Guzman was Lalo thanks to Jimmy's slip-up, but they also know he's dead (heh) and that Jimmy could be used to help find out more about the cartel.  I loved the way Kim handled the scene.  Her acting when she is told Lalo is dead was phenomenal, essentially having to hide her actual thoughts in front of Ericsen, but internally the relief that that threat was over was clear to us, but not in a way it would betray anything to Ericsen.  Superb.  I also loved the way she basically already told Ericsen if they'd help or not, by insisting on Jimmy being Saul (more or less already taking his side), and then the way she framed Jimmy's options at home (being a friend of the cartel or a rat).  She knows what she wants and how to get Jimmy to do it!

 

Jimmy - I loved the key copy trick with Huell.  His question at the end was a great addition to the scene.  I do wonder how much of Jimmy's answer was the truth to him; Yes, pulling of this scam means Sandpiper gets settled sooner, which means the people ripped off get their money sooner, and also means Kim has the opportunity to grow her pro-bono firm and help more people.  All true.  But also, of course Jimmy loves scamming for scamming sake, so....

 

Nacho - Boy, did it seem to me like it was a bad idea for him to hop in that oil tank.  Of course the Salamancas would investigate it after seeing his track.  Did he know there was enough oil he could submerge in when he peaked in?  I almost couldn't believe that all worked.  His phone call to his dad was so sad.  As soon as it was over, you knew that he thought he was going to die.  I loved how the next phone call circled back and showed us the other side of Mike receiving the call last week, that was great.

 

The brief Mike montage pulling Nacho out of the truck was nice, it's been a while since we've had a Mike montage, and I hope later in the season we get the best Mike montages yet.  I feel so bummed that after everything Nacho went through across 3 episodes to escape from the Salamancas, cross the border, and end up safely in the USA, the immediate course of action is that the only way to save his father is that he has to die.  I kept hoping that there was a twist coming and he'd escape death :(

 

When everyone rolled up to the little house in the desert (is this the same house Hank eventually shoots Tuco at?), I quickly realized that out of all 9 characters present, 8 of them (Hector, Cousins, Bolsa, Gus, Victor, Tyrus, and Mike) are alive in Breaking Bad, so if anyone was going to die, it could only be Nacho.  They could have changed the stakes a bit by having introduced some other character or characters that could have had a reason to be there, but I guess that would have just taken way too much screen time.  Considering they wanted to end Nacho's story by episode 3, I guess they have a lot of story they want to cover in the next 10 episodes.

 

Nacho's final scene was terrifically done, and there's no way this won't be the episode submitted to the Emmys for him as a Best Supporting Actor.  I loved that you truly didn't know if he was going to follow through the plan or if he was going to betray Gus.  I mean, of course a Breaking Bad viewer knows that it's impossible that he could do that, but Michal Mando's acting was so good, you forget about that fact.  And then, that speech was just amazing.  I had to look it up online to see it again

 

"

Him? You think the chicken man? What a joke. Alvarez has been paying me for years. Years. But you know what? I would've done it for free because I hate every last one of you psycho sacks of shit. I opened Lalo's gate and I would do it again and I'm glad what they did to him. He's a soulless pig and I wish I killed him with my own hands. And you know what else Hector? I put you in that chair. Oh yeah. Your heart meds? I switched them for sugar pills. You were dead and buried and I had to watch this asshole bring you back. So when you are sitting in your shitty nursing home, and you're sucking down on your Jell-O night after night for the rest of your life, you think of me. You twisted fuck.

"

 

Epic.  It might even be better than Ozymandias' "I watched Jane die" and "You're the smartest guy I ever met, but you're too stupid to see he made up his mind ten minutes ago" and "My name is ASAC Schrader and you can go fuck yourself", not to mention "I'd hate to die like your son. Clawing at my neck, foam and bile spilling from my mouth, eyes blood-red, skin purple. Must have been horrible for you, as a Kingsguard, as a father. It was horrible enough for me, a shocking scene. Not at all what I intended. You see, I'd never seen the poison work before. Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me."  Holy shit.

 

I loved that he got to tell Hector to his face that he was behind his stroke, and that he did made it believable enough that Gus wasn't involved.  It was interesting too that instead of sticking to the plan and running towards Victor, he chose to shoot himself in the head.  You have to wonder how strongly he considered killing Bolsa while he had the chance, or taking shots at any of the Salamancas or Fring's crew, but I suppose doing any of that could lead to them going after his father out of spite, so his hands were tied.  Man, what an ending.


I don't really know what Mike was there for.  Like say for example Nacho didn't stick to the plan and starting shooting at the Salamancas or the Frings.  Would Mike have then started killing the rest of the Salamancas?  Would he have shot up Gus's gang too to be out of the biz entirely?  Interesting thoughts to ponder.

 

So the cold open, the blue flower is where Nacho got buried?

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3 hours ago, Thor said:

Hmmm. My memory must be bad, because even though I fairly recently rewatched BREAKING BAD, I could have sworn Nacho appears in it. But apparently not. Dead and buried. A shame, because he was a great character -- but I suppose in a way, his arc had come to a close.

 

Dude..... WHAT!?

 

You thought 40 year old actor Michael Mando was playing a younger version of a character he played on Breaking Bad, a show filmed when he was in his twenties?

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Things are picking up! Every storyline had at least one OH SHIT moment.

 

 

3 hours ago, Thor said:

My memory must be bad, because even though I fairly recently rewatched BREAKING BAD, I could have sworn

  Hide contents

Nacho appears in it. But apparently not. Dead and buried. A shame, because he was a great character -- but I suppose in a way, his arc had come to a close.

Well, your memory is bad, but maybe in a different way - the first episode Saul appears in, W&J take him out to the desert to threaten him and he asks in a panic if they were sent by Nacho or Lalo or someone else.

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Close!

 

Saul says "It wasn't me, it was Ignacio! He's the one!"

 

and then later "Lalo didn't send you?"

 

It was two random throway lines at the time, but they led to the creation of the Nacho and Lalo characters for BCS 5 and 8 years later respectively

 

 

~

 

Hmm, since Saul currently thinks Lalo is dead as of 603, I guess he'll find out Lalo is actually alive before the show catches up to the start of the BB timeline?

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I’m rewatching Breaking Bad and I forgot that Juan Bolsa only appears in two episodes. They really fleshed his character out in BCS.

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2 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Dude..... WHAT!?

 

You thought 40 year old actor Michael Mando was playing a younger version of a character he played on Breaking Bad, a show filmed when he was in his twenties?

 

Yeah, probably confused him with some other mafia guy from BB or something. I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of these series like so many of you. I just enjoy it and have tenous associations and memories of plot points, even after having watched both BB and BCS twice. In a way, however, that faulty link; that inability to remember which characters appear in BB and which do not (especially of the cartel people) made the shock that much bigger when Nacho was killed off.

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Breaking Bad and BCS are not about the Mafia (Italian organized crime), they are about Mexican-based organized crime (cartels)

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5 hours ago, Jay said:

When everyone rolled up to the little house in the desert (is this the same house Hank eventually shoots Tuco at?),

 

No! But it was the same house from Klick (2.10) where Mike is also aiming through his sniper rifle trying to assasinate Hector. Ironically, Nacho stands in the way and Mike refuses to accept killing him as collateral damage. Then Mike's car horn starts going off, only for him to find the "DON'T" message placed by Gus. (Or Gus' men).

 

2 hours ago, Alex said:

I’m rewatching Breaking Bad and I forgot that Juan Bolsa only appears in two episodes. They really fleshed his character out in BCS.

 

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Don Eladio was only in 2 episodes of BB as well!

 

This surprised the hell out of me too when I rewatched BB. I felt like I knew those characters far better than that. Shows what good writing and making a good impression can do!

 

Thoughts on 6.03:

  • Teaser - I love the teasers that leave me like

image.png

 

  • This one was super ominous and I thought "we're not going to be having much fun this episode"
     
  • Love how the "posters" that were posted on Twitter over the last few weeks have actually been stills from the show. So far we've had the Kim holding the "world's best lawer" flask, Lalo in his red and blue flower shirt, and Nacho in the tanker. 
     
  • I didn’t find any of the Jimmy and Kim stuff this week particularly interesting. It definitely felt like the B story. Jimmy justifying to Huell why they are doing all of this was nice. He was trying to convince himself as much too.
     
  • The phone call with Nacho and papa Nacho was so sad. His dad doesn’t want anything bad to happen to him, but he knows Nacho isn’t going to turn himself in. It felt like they both accepted that…and they both probably knew that was going to be their last conversation.
     
  • Nacho’s death…man, what a waste. I mean, I don’t know his story could have progressed any other way, but it felt like we spent a LOT of time with him trying to get back across the border, only to end up like this.
     
  • I like that he at least went out on his own terms, no matter “how quick” Victor would have made it. He threw a final f-bomb at Hector and it reminded me of Hank’s “My name is ASAC Schrader, and you can go fuck yourself” line.
     
  • It completely skipped my mind until the end of the episode that Nacho and Hector used to work together in Regalo Helado. Which makes Hector shooting his body even more twisted. Fuck Hector. I hope Gus or Mike get to make him suffer some more before BB - killing Lalo I hope.
     
  • Nacho considered ratting out Gus but eventually stuck to the story. Was part of the plan to kill Bolsa or was that just for show? We obviously knew Bolsa survives (yet Gus eventually orders his death), but did Nacho intentionally NOT kill him as a last “fuck you” to Gus for everything he’s been put through? Like, "I'm not gonna make things any easier for you". I'm not really sensing that Gus wants Bolsa dead at this point. 

 

5 hours ago, Jay said:

Her acting when she is told Lalo is dead was phenomenal, essentially having to hide her actual thoughts in front of Ericsen, but internally the relief that that threat was over was clear to us, but not in a way it would betray anything to Ericsen. 

 

This went over my head! I thought she was just having to lie about what she already knew, but she was finding out the information for the first time. Love that she says th exact opposite of what she's thinking - "that's terrible". I forgot that only Jimmy knows (or assumes) that Lalo is dead based on the conversation he had with Mike when he went to Mike's house.

 

5 hours ago, Jay said:

I do wonder how much of Jimmy's answer was the truth to him; Yes, pulling of this scam means Sandpiper gets settled sooner, which means the people ripped off get their money sooner, and also means Kim has the opportunity to grow her pro-bono firm and help more people.  All true.  But also, of course Jimmy loves scamming for scamming sake, so....

 

The impression I get is that he's really just doing this for Kim. I'm not sure he even enjoys it any more. And when I say "for Kim", I mean for her happiness - not for her pro-bono practice idea and helping regular people. I don't think Jimmy even thinks that's a good idea.

 

5 hours ago, Jay said:

Considering they wanted to end Nacho's story by episode 3, I guess they have a lot of story they want to cover in the next 10 episodes.

 

Yeah! I didn't expect this sort of thing only 3 episodes in. There must be a lot still to come - this has been the second week with no Lalo (although I like this absence...we literally don't know when he will show up again), and no further teases of who is following Kim and Jimmy.

 

5 hours ago, Jay said:

You have to wonder how strongly he considered killing Bolsa while he had the chance, or taking shots at any of the Salamancas or Fring's crew, but I suppose doing any of that could lead to them going after his father out of spite, so his hands were tied.

 

Excellent point. I guess that confirms that killing Bolsa wasn't part of the plan.

 

5 hours ago, Jay said:

I don't really know what Mike was there for.  Like say for example Nacho didn't stick to the plan and starting shooting at the Salamancas or the Frings.  Would Mike have then started killing the rest of the Salamancas?  Would he have shot up Gus's gang too to be out of the biz entirely?  Interesting thoughts to ponder.

 

My interpretation is Mike wanted to be as a "friend" to Nacho, possibly even to 

carry out a mercy killing if Victor didn't make it quick.

 

His reasoning to Gus of "there's a lot of things that could go south" was completely logical as well, so he really could have been there just as security.

 

5 hours ago, Jay said:

So the cold open, the blue flower is where Nacho got buried?

 

Yes, or close by. The raindrops were landing on the shattered piece of glass he broke out of the zip ties with. I want to know the significance of a blue flower. Why that flower specifically?

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7 minutes ago, Anthony said:

No! But it was the same house from Klick (2.10) where Mike is also aiming through his sniper rifle trying to assasinate Hector.

 

Ah, of course!

 

7 minutes ago, Anthony said:
  • Teaser - I love the teasers that leave me like

 

lol!

 

7 minutes ago, Anthony said:
  • Love how the "posters" that were posted on Twitter over the last few weeks have actually been stills from the show. So far we've had the Kim holding the "world's best lawer" flask, Lalo in his red and blue flower shirt, and Nacho in the tanker. 

 

What Nacho in the tanker one?  I just looked at the previous page and didn't see it.  Was there one that was never shared here? (I don't use twitter)
 

7 minutes ago, Anthony said:
  • Blue flower - what's the significance of that exactly?

 

I can almost guarantee the BCS Insider podcast will tell us exactly what flower it is and what significance it has

 

7 minutes ago, Anthony said:
  • I didn’t find any of the Jimmy and Kim stuff this week particularly interesting. It definitely felt like the B story. Jimmy justifying to Huell why they are doing all of this was nice. He was trying to convince himself as much too.

 

Oh wow, I couldn't disagree more, I thought it was a great turn of events that DCA Ericsen is onto Jimmy, AND chose to confront Kim about it before him, AND the way she replied to Ericsen, AND the conversation she had with Jimmy when they got home.  All super important stuff!

 

7 minutes ago, Anthony said:
  • The phone call with Nacho and papa Nacho was so sad. His dad doesn’t want anything bad to happen to him, but he knows Nacho isn’t going to turn himself in. It felt like they both accepted that…and they both probably knew that was going to be their last conversation.

 

It's a super interesting scene.  I haven't finished listening to the BCS Insider podcast episode yet, but Mando spends a good amount of time talking about that scene.

 

7 minutes ago, Anthony said:
  • Nacho’s death…man, what a waste. I mean, I don’t know his story could have progressed any other way, but it felt like we spent a LOT of time with him trying to get back across the border, only to end up like this.

 

Yea, that's sort of my only issue, is how quickly we jump from him successfully escaping, only to turn around and have him agree to die.  You have to wonder - if the assassins had simply shot him the moment he let them through the door, wouldn't the end result we're at now (Nacho's dad being safe) have been EXACTLY the same?  I guess they could have written in something to increase the importance of Nacho saying directly to the Salamancas that it was the Alvarez cartel that's been paying him as being the only way to get them off Gus's scent or something >shrug<

 

 

7 minutes ago, Anthony said:
  • I like that he at least went out on his own terms, no matter “how quick” Victor would have made it. He threw a final f-bomb at Hector and it reminded me of Hank’s “My name is ASAC Schrader, and you can go fuck yourself” line.

 

Hehe, I mentioned that up above too :)

 

7 minutes ago, Anthony said:
  • It completely skipped my mind until the end of the episode that Nacho and Hector used to work together in Regalo Helado. Which makes Hector shooting his body even more twisted. Fuck Hector. I hope Gus or Mike get to make him suffer some more before BB - killing Lalo I hope.

 

Wait, what? Nacho has been working for the Salamanca crime family since before his introduction in the show.  What does the time they were trying to smuggle drugs in ice cream have to do with this episode?

 

7 minutes ago, Anthony said:
  • Nacho considered ratting out Gus but eventually stuck to the story. Was part of the plan to kill Bolsa or was that just for show? We obviously knew Bolsa survives (yet Gus eventually orders his death), but did Nacho intentionally NOT kill him as a last “fuck you” to Gus for everything he’s been put through? Like, "I'm not gonna make things any easier for you". I'm not really sensing that Gus wants Bolsa dead at this point. 

 

Gus's plan was for Nacho to convince the Salamancas the Alvarez cartel was paying him, then run towards Victor because Victor would give him a quick death, as opposed to the slow death the Salamancas would give him.  Killing Bolsa was definitely not part of the plan.  Nacho strayed from Gus's plan in three ways.  First by taking a piece of broken glass from the trash and using it to cut his wrist ties.  Second by using that glass to also get Bolsa's gun off him and take him as a hostage.  And third by shooting himself in the head instead of having VIctor do it.  I think it's open to interpretation whether or not Nacho was considering killing Bolsa and/or shooting others, or just trying to really sell that he hated everyone there or whatever.  In the BCS Insider podcast, Mando shares his thoughts on it all.

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Some part of me was actually thinking/hoping that Gus was just testing his determinedness and ability to follow his orders to the end.

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33 minutes ago, Anthony said:

This went over my head! I thought she was just having to lie about what she already knew, but she was finding out the information for the first time. Love that she says th exact opposite of what she's thinking - "that's terrible". I forgot that only Jimmy knows (or assumes) that Lalo is dead based on the conversation he had with Mike when he went to Mike's house.

 

Right.  Mike had told them that Lalo Salamanca WILL be dead (or whatever his exact words were), but they'd have gotten zero updates after that so had no idea he actually was dead until Ericsen told her.  And, IIRC, when she goes home that night, she tells Jimmy Lalo's dead, because he didn't know either.

 

33 minutes ago, Anthony said:

The impression I get is that he's really just doing this for Kim. I'm not sure he even enjoys it any more. And when I say "for Kim", I mean for her happiness - not for her pro-bono practice idea and helping regular people. I don't think Jimmy even thinks that's a good idea.

 

But he didn't tell Huell he was doing it for Kim, he told Huell something like "We're doing the lords work here, bettering the world" (or whatever his exact words were).  So it made me think of both the people betrayed by the Sandpiper company who will now get their settlements as well as Kim's pro bono law firm -- but of course, the subtext is that Jimmy is kidding himself if he thinks that's the only reason they're doing it.

 

33 minutes ago, Anthony said:

My interpretation is Mike wanted to be as a "friend" to Nacho, possibly even to carry out a mercy killing if Victor didn't make it quick.

 

Oh that's a good point

 

33 minutes ago, Anthony said:

His reasoning to Gus of "there's a lot of things that could go south" was completely logical as well, so he really could have been there just as security.

 

Yea, true.

 

It's just fun to speculate exactly what Mike would do if different things happened.  Would he only shoot at Salamancas, or would he take out Gus, Tyrus, and Victor too!

 

33 minutes ago, Anthony said:

 I want to know the significance of a blue flower. Why that flower specifically?

 

https://florgeous.com/bluebell-flower-meaning

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34 minutes ago, Anthony said:

My interpretation is Mike wanted to be as a "friend" to Nacho, possibly even to 

carry out a mercy killing if Victor didn't make it quick.

 

Further evidence for this was Mike didn't trust Victor when he said Nacho looked "too pretty" and that he'd handle it himself.

 

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

What Nacho in the tanker one?  I just looked at the previous page and didn't see it.  Was there one that was never shared here? (I don't use twitter)

 

FQENjyWXIAAvwil.jpeg

 

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yea, that's sort of my only issue, is how quickly we jump from him successfully escaping, only to turn around and have him agree to die.  You have to wonder - if the assassins had simply shot him the moment he let them through the door, wouldn't the end result we're at now (Nacho's dad being safe) have been EXACTLY the same?

 

Now knowing Gus viewed it as a suicide mission all along, you're right - why didn't the soldier dudes just kill him after he opened the gate?

 

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

Wait, what? Nacho has been working for the Salamanca crime family since before his introduction in the show.  What does the time they were trying to smuggle drugs in ice cream have to do with this episode.

 

Yes, but I totally forgot about this. I thought when he was taken out of the truck and presented to Hector that this was the first time they had met. But of course, they have tons of history!

 

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

Nacho strayed from Gus's plan in three ways.  First by taking a piece of broken glass from the trash and using it to cut his wrist ties. 

 

Wait, what?! I thought him breaking free was all part of the plan. I thought he, Gus and Mike had a whole conversation about this?! Man, I'm gonna have to rewatch this.

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Interesting indeed that we're still mostly seeing Jimmy, not Saul, just following Kim. It might seem a bit fast of a hard turn for her but I guess we didn't see enough of her past, how they got started with Jimmy, for all we know he could've roped her into all these scams quickly and she could've been just as naughty (we already saw her inviting him into scams), but she gave it up/restrained it because of her professional work and law school finances being at stake. Then it all unleashed now that she's completely on her own doing what she feels is right on the light side and doing what she wants to do on her dark side.

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3 minutes ago, Jay said:

And, IIRC, when she goes home that night, she tells Jimmy Lalo's dead, because he didn't know either.

 

Jimmy was definitely faking his surprise and didn't want to let on to Kim that he knew that Lalo was gonna die. He didn't how for sure it had happened, but assumed.

 

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's just fun to speculate exactly what Mike would do if different things happened.  Would he only shoot at Salamancas, or would he take out Gus, Tyrus, and Victor too!

 

I want another Mike scene akin to Golden Moth Chemical by the time the show ends!

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1 minute ago, Anthony said:

FQENjyWXIAAvwil.jpeg

 

Ah thanks, I hadn't seen that one!

 

1 minute ago, Anthony said:

Now knowing Gus viewed it as a suicide mission all along, you're right - why didn't the soldier dudes just kill him after he opened the gate?

 

I guess originally Gus was willing to let Nacho live after the hit on Lalo, but since Lalo didn't actually die, and it took Nacho a while to turn back up again, he changed his mind over time?  Not sure.

 

1 minute ago, Anthony said:

Yes, but I totally forgot about this. I thought when he was taken out of the truck and presented to Hector that this was the first time they had met. But of course, they have tons of history!

 

IIRC, the whole reason Nacho is working for the Salamanca crime family is because him and Tuco were friends?  Something like that.

 

So you just binge-watched all of BCS right before the new season, and forgot that Nacho tried to kill Hector by swapping the pills until he brought it up?

 

1 minute ago, Anthony said:

Wait, what?! I thought him breaking free was all part of the plan. I thought he, Gus and Mike had a whole conversation about this?! Man, I'm gonna have to rewatch this.

 

I recall the conversation just being that he was supposed to get up and run towards Victor after naming the Alvarez clan.  The glass he took out of the trash was the glass Gus broke in the previous episode, so I don't think it was part of the plan.

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5 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Now knowing Gus viewed it as a suicide mission all along, you're right - why didn't the soldier dudes just kill him after he opened the gate?

The Salamancas may know it was Gus and Lalo's alive but his confession might've taken Bolsa off his back?

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4 minutes ago, Holko said:

Interesting indeed that we're still mostly seeing Jimmy, not Saul, just following Kim. It might seem a bit fast of a hard turn for her but I guess we didn't see enough of her past, how they got started with Jimmy, for all we know he could've roped her into all these scams quickly and she could've been just as naughty (we already saw her inviting him into scams), but she gave it up/restrained it because of her professional work and law school finances being at stake. Then it all unleashed now that she's completely on her own doing what she feels is right on the light side and doing what she wants to do on her dark side.

 

Now that the Nacho arc is over, I suspect we'll be getting a lot more of Jim and Kimmy.  And boy I hope we learn more about her past.

 

2 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Jimmy was definitely faking his surprise and didn't want to let on to Kim that he knew that Lalo was gonna die. He didn't how for sure it had happened, but assumed.

 

Hmmm, I thought I remembered that Mike told both Jimmy and Kim at the same time that Lalo was going to die?

 

1 minute ago, Holko said:

The Salamancas may know it was Gus and Lalo's alive but his confession might've taken Bolsa off his back?

 

Good point.  At this point Hector knows Lalo is really alive, but I don't think the Cousins do (it's unclear).  Also, the Salamancas still only suspect Gus was behind it, they don't know without proof really.  I don't think Hector gleaned from their conversation that Gus was behind it or anything.

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15 minutes ago, Jay said:

I guess originally Gus was willing to let Nacho live after the hit on Lalo, but since Lalo didn't actually die, and it took Nacho a while to turn back up again, he changed his mind over time?  Not sure.

 

Perhaps this all comes to down to the writers not knowing what would happen in season 6 when they wrote the end of season 5!

 

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

So you just binge-watched all of BCS right before the new season, and forgot that Nacho tried to kill Hector by swapping the pills until he brought it up?

 

And THEN I watched all of Breaking Bad again. That's 62 hours of non-Better Call Saul where I'm bound to forget things!

 

33 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yea, that's sort of my only issue, is how quickly we jump from him successfully escaping, only to turn around and have him agree to die.  You have to wonder - if the assassins had simply shot him the moment he let them through the door, wouldn't the end result we're at now (Nacho's dad being safe) have been EXACTLY the same?

 

Did they convince Nacho to go down to Mexico in the first place in that scene where Victor threatens his dad? I can't remember what they wanted him to do then.

 

Either way, his dad was safe provided Nacho did what he was told. And when he figured out that escaping Mexico was not part of the plan, he turned it around and offered himself up to die provided it guaranteed his dad's safety.

 

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Hmmm, I thought I remembered that Mike told both Jimmy and Kim at the same time that Lalo was going to die?

 

Nope - Jimmy turned up at Mike's house demanding answers in 5.10. And Mike told him Lalo was going to die that night. When Jimmy returned to the hotel, he just told her that they'd be safe, but didn't explain why.

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9 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Did they convince Nacho to go down to Mexico in the first place in that scene where Victor threatens his dad? I can't remember what they wanted him to do then.

 

I can't remember how it all came together.  All I remember is Lalo confronting Kim and Jimmy about the car in the ditch, Kim talking her way out of it, and then Lalo tells Nacho they're going to Mexico.  In Mexico, Lalo surprises him by taking him to Don Eladio and essentially making Nacho the man in charge of ABQ since Tuco is still in jail, and Lalo can't go back to the US because he murdered the kid in the travel agency and then skipped bail.  I don't recall exactly when Gus formulated a plan to kill Lalo at his estate using Nacho to open the door, or how he told Nacho that was the plan.  I remember Nacho getting a cell phone call while he was in Lalo's house because Gus's team used a cell repeater thingy to tell him the time to open the door, but I can't recall when before that he knew he'd be called upon to do something.

 

9 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Either way, his dad was safe provided Nacho did what he was told. And when he figured out that escaping Mexico was not part of the plan, he turned it around and offered himself up to die provided it guaranteed his dad's safety.

 

Yup!

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I loved how Mike whispered "Do it" when Nacho had the gun to Bolsa's head.  You just know he wanted an excuse to unload and take out all the Salamancas at once, and hopefully save Nacho's life at the same time.

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11 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Nope - Jimmy turned up at Mike's house demanding answers in 5.10. And Mike told him Lalo was going to die that night. When Jimmy returned to the hotel, he just told her that they'd be safe, but didn't explain why.

 

Ah OK, that makes perfect sense.  So when Ericsen told Kim Lalo was dead, it was COMPLETELY brand new information to her.  And when she got home and told Jimmy, he wasn't super surprised because of what Mike told him, but was still probably relieved to hear the confirmation --but also pretended it was completely new information to him as well.

 

5 minutes ago, Matt S. said:

I loved how Mike whispered "Do it" when Nacho had the gun to Bolsa's head.  You just know he wanted an excuse to unload and take out all the Salamancas at once.

 

I was wondering about that!  I think it can be interpreted that way, or it can be interpreted that he was just hoping Nacho would stick to the plan and run towards Victor?  Maybe?  I'd have to watch again

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47 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Ah OK, that makes perfect sense.  So when Ericsen told Kim Lalo was dead, it was COMPLETELY brand new information to her.  And when she got home and told Jimmy, he wasn't super surprised because of what Mike told him, but was still probably relieved to hear the confirmation --but also pretended it was completely new information to him as well.

 

Exactly!

 

50 minutes ago, Matt S. said:

I loved how Mike whispered "Do it" when Nacho had the gun to Bolsa's head.  You just know he wanted an excuse to unload and take out all the Salamancas at once, and hopefully save Nacho's life at the same time.

 

Nice! Probably meant both "stick to the plan" but also a bit of "do it, kill 'em all".

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10 hours ago, Jay said:

But he didn't tell Huell he was doing it for Kim, he told Huell something like "We're doing the lords work here, bettering the world" (or whatever his exact words were).  So it made me think of both the people betrayed by the Sandpiper company who will now get their settlements as well as Kim's pro bono law firm -- but of course, the subtext is that Jimmy is kidding himself if he thinks that's the only reason they're doing it.

 

The director and writer of this episode describes what I'm thinking better than I did.

 

Since Jimmy wasn’t too keen on Kim’s idea in the first place, is he just trying to hold on to her? What else holds them together?
 

That is the question that both of them have for each other. They feel like they’re invested in the scams, and the scams become almost synonymous for their relationship. So the trap that they’ve laid is that they have fun playing around with other people.
 

There’s a line in Arrested Development where the character of Gob gets married after “a series of escalating dares.” Neither one of them wanted to get married; it’s just that they kept one-upping each other and the one-ups got out of control. So I feel like Kim and Jimmy are living with some of their one-upsmanship in the scam arena. And Jimmy, even more than Kim, goes, “What do I have to offer her if not this? If I’m not the fun guy that she can come to and do this thing that gives us both juice, what could she see in me?”
 

So it’s really sad because this guy who, despite some of his failings, has taken so much of what Chuck saw in him to heart. Chuck saw him as a loser with a law degree instead of a guy who’s trying and striving and struggling, and Jimmy kind of believes some of those bad things about himself. So he looks at Kim and goes, “Well, she’s so great. Why would she ever have anything to do with me?” I think it’s a sad but common thing in some relationships. That’s something that I’ve certainly felt and feel.

 

The same interview also pointed out another great detail which I'd overlooked.

 

Kim and Jimmy are now smoking inside. Why have they changed their usual habits and discipline?
 

The smoking inside feels like a little bit of the chaos from their scams is starting to infect their everyday life. The discipline is breaking down a little bit. Kim used to be like, “You do whatever you want as long as I don’t know about it.” That was a very distinct wall. And then it was, “What if we’re not partners but we work under the same building?” So they keep edging closer to being completely revealed to each other, and smoking indoors is a part of that. It’s a little bit chaotic and dangerous, but not terribly. Every step down a slippery slope is fine until you’re at the bottom.

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12 minutes ago, Anthony said:

And Jimmy, even more than Kim, goes, “What do I have to offer her if not this? If I’m not the fun guy that she can come to and do this thing that gives us both juice, what could she see in me?”

I was also thinking of that, this could also be a major rebound from that low point around S4 when their life together was cold, both just working.

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Anyone find it interesting they still haven't addressed the gang who attacked Saul when he had the bail money for Lalo? The only context we've gotten is the mystery phone call from the opening teaser of 508.

 

From memory they also showed us a tattoo on one of the gang members (after Mike killed them all with a sniper rifle). Didn't Mike then draw the tattoo for Gus in his office, indicating there was history there?

 

I wonder if this all leading to a much bigger plot involving Gus' past in Chile, well before his dramas with the Salamancas.

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A couple of small details I realised only after finishing the episode:

  • The painting with the post-it notes (a nice Kim reference) is the same one that was being carried down the stairs in the 6.01 teaser.
     

  • The broken piece of glass that Nacho cuts the zip ties with is from the glass that Gus knocked off the table in the last episode.

Also, we haven't discussed at all what Jimmy and Kim could possibly want with access to Howard's car. Staging some kind of cocaine-induced traffic accident?

 

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

I wonder if this all leading to a much bigger plot involving Gus' past in Chile, well before his dramas with the Salamancas.

 

I hope we get more on this. It's been mentioned at least 2 or 3 times across BB and BCS. Why keep mentioning it if you're not going to go there? I need answers!!

 

In a couple of weeks there's an episode coming up called Black And Blue - sharing the name of a Breaking Bad episode (Negro y Azul).

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9 hours ago, Anthony said:

 

The same interview also pointed out another great detail which I'd overlooked.

 

Kim and Jimmy are now smoking inside. Why have they changed their usual habits and discipline?
 

The smoking inside feels like a little bit of the chaos from their scams is starting to infect their everyday life. The discipline is breaking down a little bit. Kim used to be like, “You do whatever you want as long as I don’t know about it.” That was a very distinct wall. And then it was, “What if we’re not partners but we work under the same building?” So they keep edging closer to being completely revealed to each other, and smoking indoors is a part of that. It’s a little bit chaotic and dangerous, but not terribly. Every step down a slippery slope is fine until you’re at the bottom.

 

 

That's interesting, I had clocked Kim smoking inside but hadn't realized that they didn't used to smoke inside in earlier episodes.  

 

Got a link to this interview?

 

9 hours ago, Holko said:

I was also thinking of that, this could also be a major rebound from that low point around S4 when their life together was cold, both just working.

 

That montage that showed months going by as they drifted apart is still one of the most memorable things I've seen on TV

 

4 hours ago, crumbs said:

Anyone find it interesting they still haven't addressed the gang who attacked Saul when he had the bail money for Lalo? The only context we've gotten is the mystery phone call from the opening teaser of 508.

 

From memory they also showed us a tattoo on one of the gang members (after Mike killed them all with a sniper rifle). Didn't Mike then draw the tattoo for Gus in his office, indicating there was history there?

 

I wonder if this all leading to a much bigger plot involving Gus' past in Chile, well before his dramas with the Salamancas.

 

When he drew the tattoo for Gus, Gus realized that Juan Bolsa was behind the sabotage.  So I guess we're supposed to understand that Bolsa preferred Lalo to stay in jail and hired outsiders to kill Jimmy and take the bail money to accomplish this.  But Gus being Gus had Mike follow Jimmy, and he saved the day.

 

4 hours ago, Anthony said:
  • The broken piece of glass that Nacho cuts the zip ties with is from the glass that Gus knocked off the table in the last episode.

 

 

I mentioned that up above in one of my posts

 

4 hours ago, Anthony said:

Also, we haven't discussed at all what Jimmy and Kim could possibly want with access to Howard's car. Staging some kind of cocaine-induced traffic accident?

 

Exactly what I am thinking, yes!  They originally were pondering ways to get a replica of his car and replica of his license plate before deciding to just steal his real car instead with the valet key trick.  We know jimmy already has a suit that looks exactly like one of Howard's, so maybe he'll do the driving?

 

4 hours ago, Anthony said:

I hope we get more on this. It's been mentioned at least 2 or 3 times across BB and BCS. Why keep mentioning it if you're not going to go there? I need answers!!

 

Yes, this has to come up at some point before the end, doesn't it?

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

We know jimmy already has a suit that looks exactly like one of Howard's, so maybe he'll do the driving?

 

Oh man, I totally forgot about this. This coming back would be perfect!

 

Here's the Gordon Smith interview:

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/better-call-saul-gordon-smith-talks-ignacio-episode-1235135740/amp/

 

Listened to the insider poscast...Michael Mando seems like such an intelligent and nice dude.

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Some interesting tidbits form the Insider podcast

 

-The oil tanker in the field was real, but everything seen inside was a replica built on a soundstage.  The goop nacho sinks into was something safe to have on your skin (real oil would be toxic) and Mando had to hold onto a railing to stay submerged in it

 

-The opening teaser was filmed on an outdoor soundstage, not the same desert location the ending scene was shot at, so they could control the rain-making better.  it took a while to perfectly have the rain uncover the glass, and the reset time between each take was long because they had to wait for the area to dry back out.  And the camera movement was controlled by a computer, exactly as I thought.

 

-Someone (Chris McCaleb I think) made the same observation I did that Kim was internally relieved that Lalo was dead, but had to conceal that to Ericsen, but still show it to us the audience, and that Seehorn did an amazing job doing so

 

-Interesting talk about Nacho submerging in darkness and coming back up, puking, and giving away his earthly possessions (the money), his last meal being one he could eat with a knife and fork but not his hands, the white shirt with crosses on it, and going out standing up rather than kneeling

 

Overall it was one of the better episodes, because Michal Mando was a guest and his thoughts and insights were extremely interesting and compelling to listen to every time.  He is a really smart dude and the various things he described in terms of his approach to the material, his interaction with the crew, and his choices to help with his acting were all super thoughtful and interesting.  like he did not want the actors playing his father, Gus, or Mike to be on set to do their lines for his phone calls with them to increase the distant nature he was going through.

 

HOWEVER, man, Kelly Dixon has got to be booted from these things!  Now that she doesn't work on the show any more at all, she's basically just playing the role of a huge fan who gets access to the episodes early, which doesn't really help what this podcast is trying to do and just takes up time that could be spend on more interesting stories.  At one early point Peter simply asks her how surprised she was by Nacho's death, and she gives this crazy long rambling answer that said nothing, then immediately attempted to ask Michael Mando when he thought of it but she rambled and stumbled through the question so much he didn't even know what she was asking him by the time she finally stopped talking.  Then later she tried to ask the simple question to Mando of when he thinks Nacho realized Gus was setting him up, but again rambled so much and took so long to ask such a simple question, it was excruciating!  Dear lord.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Oh man, I totally forgot about this. This coming back would be perfect!

 

Yea!

 

9 minutes ago, Anthony said:

 

Thanks!

 

9 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Listened to the insider poscast...Michael Mando seems like such an intelligent and nice dude.

 

Right!?  I could listen to him talk about this stuff for an hour

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Interesting talk about Nacho submerging in darkness and coming back up, puking, and giving away his earthly possessions (the money), his last meal being one he could eat with a knife and fork but not his hands, the white shirt with crosses on it, and going out standing up rather than kneeling

 

Some of this occured to me too while I was watching - the submerging into hell/being "reborn", the last meal etc. - but things like giving away the money and eating that last meal with a knife and fork eluded me. All clever stuff.

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

HOWEVER, man, Kelly Dixon has got to be booted from these things!  Now that she doesn't work on the show any more at all, she's basically just playing the role of a huge fan who gets access to the episodes early

 

I'd like Kelley Dixon to be there for this exact reason - to hear the perspective of a fan and bringing a similar level excitement that I have. The problem is she isn't answering the questions that Gould and co ask of her e.g. "What did you think of it?". Rather than explaining how she felt watching it, she did exactly what you described:

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

At one early point Peter simply asks her how surprised she was by Nacho's death, and she gives this crazy long rambling answer that said nothing, then immediately attempted to ask Michael Mando when he thought of it but she rambled and stumbled through the question so much he didn't even know what she was asking him by the time she finally stopped talking.

 

This stood out to me specifically and it was really annoying. She needs to accept that she isn't the host any more and there's no way she will ever be as prepared with questions as she could have been when she was working on the shows. Be there as the fan, and ask the questions that naturally come to you from only having the perspective of a fan. Don't try and be all clever, because you're just going to ask those rambling questions that no one knows how to answer. I don't know why she didn't just say "What was your thought process when you discovered what would happen?".

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Right!?  I could listen to him talk about this stuff for an hour

 

When BCS started and he was in the first few episodes, I had trouble not seeing him as Vaas from Far Cry. But he's totally outdone himself playing Nacho. Bravo, dude. I'm sure you'll never see this, but you're a damn good actor.

 

7 hours ago, Jay said:

Woah, there's someone on the left behind the hill! 

 

I would be shocked if this wasn't just a mistake, but it would be awesome if it's part of the story!

 

Watched 6.01 again tonight. Love Bolsa's phone call to Gus to notify him of Lalo's death. Bolsa says something to the effect of "...and you know what the Salamancas will do..." Gus replies "sangre por sangre" (blood for blood), which is exactly what he says to the Cousins when he gives them permission to kill Hank. Same delivery and everything.


Also, when Jimmy gives Kim the brown suit to give to her client, (I think) he says "I hope this brings them more luck than when I wore it". Did we see him wear before it in a particularly unfortunate scenario?

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