BETTER CALL SAUL

[Jay 37,281]

Some other interesting tidbits from the podcast:

 

The entire sewer system / storm drain is a set - because Albuquerque doesn't have storm drains!  They used the oil tanker Nacho hid in and turned it into the tunnel part.

 

They told Patrick Fabian before the season began that Hamlin was going to die, which Patrick was grateful for because he felt it informed his acting in the episodes leading up to it, like perhaps he had Hamlin appreciate life just a little more, etc.  Even though Patrick lives with Bob and Rhea during each shooting season, they never found out he would die until they got their scripts for 607, he kept it a secret from them the whole time

[Anthony 572]

I didn't realise this until after it finished, but the cockroach: while watching, I assumed it was just a cool shot. But then I remembered - while Jimmy as lost in the desert and Kim was pleading with Lalo to tell her where he went, he called Jimmy with a cockroach and said he'd find a way to survive.

 

The literal cockroach obviously triggered Lalo to think of Jimmy, but I'm not quite sure why he's gone to "talk" instead of just attacking the superlab.

 

While Howard was making himself "at home" in their apartment, I though "huh, this is a bit like that scene with Lalo".

 

AND THEN LALO SHOWS UP. FUCK.

 

I thought his appearance in season 5 was dread enducing, but this was a whole other level!

[crocodile 7,983]

Plan and Execution... Brilliant title.

 

Howard was a great character. Almost impossible to pull off. 

 

Karol

[Anthony 572]

Oh man, that title. SO GOOD.

 

Aside from the ending, the biggest twist was the plan actually worked! I did not see that coming!

 

9 minutes ago, Alex said:

I am not sure what Kelley Dixon brings to the Insider podcast anymore, other than just to chip in every few minutes to say how she is watching these episodes for the first time.

 

I completely agree. It's kind of sad - she used to ask such insightful questions, but not having anything to go on any more, she really detracts rather than adds to the podcast these days.

 

I wonder if she's happy working on rubbish like Falcon And Winter Soldier instead of this.

 

[Jay 37,281]

The amount of money Disney pays her to edit Falcon and Obi-wan is probably magnitudes higher than what Sony would pay her to stay on BCS

[Anthony 572]

So how did the photos of Jimmy get switched? Was it really the PI? Or was it Cary? Why go to the both of introducing him otherwise? Just to remind us of who Chuck was and have the "prepare for anything" line?

[Jay 37,281]

It was the "private eye" that switched them

 

And yes that was the purpose of the Cary scene

[Anthony 572]

Don't know if you noticed or were still in shock, but this is the third time the traditional end credits music has not been used. Seems to be a pattern whever a main character dies!

 

Did anyone see this? This isn't on the Netflix version.

 

Quote

This episode contains a brief black and white mid-credits scene showing Jimmy and Kim’s apartment and Jimmy’s voice saying, "so after all that... a happy ending." However, this scene is not present in the AMC Plus edition, suggesting that it may be a teaser for the remainder of season 6 rather than an actual mid-credits scene.

 

[Jay 37,281]

I did notice!

 

Speaking of main characters,

 

 

 

Out of 8 main characters, 3 are from Breaking Bad so could never die in the main timeline

 

Bob Odenkirk as Jimmy McGill
Jonathan Banks as Mike Ehrmantraut
Giancarlo Esposito as Gus Fring

 

The remaining 5 were invented for the show, and 3 of them are now dead

 

Michael McKean as Chuck McGill

Michael Mando as Nacho Varga
Patrick Fabian as Howard Hamlin

 

Leaving two, one who Gus thinks/knows is dead by the season 4 finale of BB

 

Tony Dalton as Lalo Salamanca

 

And therefore there's only one whose fate is completely up in the air!

 

Rhea Seehorn as Kim Wexler

[Anthony 572]

I need to see Lalo die. He's the best villlain either show has had (possibly even better than Gus). I love love LOVE that I mellow out to his charm, only for him to go full psycopath at the blink of an eye. The scene in Kim's apartment last season was terrifying, but it was NOTHING compared to this. The guy is SCARY. It's VERY rare for me to feel disturbed by a work of fiction, but man, I love this.

 

Honestly, I'm having Breaking Bad Ozymandias PTSD flashbacks right now. I felt genuinely uncomfortable for about 24 hours after seeing that episode for the first time. And I feel it now too (but not quite at such a scale). I think I might go for a walk, even though it's nearly 10pm.

 

 

[Jay 37,281]

Am I correct in thinking that all the footage from the trailer is seen in episodes 1-7, so we haven't seen a drop of footage from the back 6 yet?

 

 

[Anthony 572]

Oh good, I can finally watch the trailer then!

 

Edit: Correct, that's all footage from 1-7. In fact, it may have all been from 1-4.

 

Man, I'm glad I didn't watch that beforehand.

 

So even though Lalo is a crazy mother fucker, I'm thinking it would be more poetic if no further physical harm comes to Kim. Instead, the guilt from what's happened to Howard will make her not even be able to look at Jimmy again and they'll split up.

 

I'm still wondering, "What problem does becoming Saul Goodman solve?". Is it gonna be to try and repress this and what becomes of Kim?

 

I hope we're not going to get several more episodes of PTSD Jimmy. But it's unlikely we can do a big time jump straight away. We have to see what Lalo wants to talk about, right?

[Jay 37,281]

That's my biggest question: What does Lalo want to talk about?  Does it want to re-hash what happened in the desert AGAIN?

 

What made him decide not to go into the laundromat?  I know the cockroach gave him the idea to talk to Jimmy, but what is it about Jimmy that made Lalo go to him instead of attacking the lab?

[Anthony 572]

That's the big question. Lalo recognised Mike at the laundry. But he doesn't know Mike has a connection to Jimmy, right?

 

Maybe that's the play - he'll try to use Jimmy to get close to Mike, but Lalo doesn't know about their history, and things will go wrong for him?

 

There's gotta be a showdown in the superlab after Gus planted that gun.

[Damien F 1,742]

The previous few episodes had so many little details to support the theory that Howard will have a medical emergency caused by the caffeine in the vet's drug. I wouldn't be surprised if that idea was bounced around the writers room at one point but they instead decided to have Jimmy & Kim's law world overlap with the cartel again, but the writers still added in a few hints about the caffeine as red herrings. There were just too many to be a coincidence.

[Jay 37,281]

21 minutes ago, Anthony said:

That's the big question. Lalo recognised Mike at the laundry. But he doesn't know Mike has a connection to Jimmy, right?

 

Maybe that's the play - he'll try to use Jimmy to get close to Mike, but Lalo doesn't know about their history, and things will go wrong for him?

 

There's gotta be a showdown in the superlab after Gus planted that gun.

 

We have to look at what the audience knows vs what the characters know

 

The audience knows:

-Gus hates Hector (and all the other Salamancas), Eladio, and Bolsa, and is building a meth superlab because he wants to kill everyone in the cartel and then become the meth king of the southwest himself

-Jimmy successfully got bail set for Lalo at his arraignment when he was accused of murdering the TravelWire guy, and was told he'd be a friend of the cartel if he collected $7 million in bail money from Mexico and posted it to get Lalo out of jail

-Juan Bolsa ordered men to attack Jimmy in the desert once he got Lalo's bail money, because Bolsa wanted Lalo to stay in jail, so Gus could earn for the cartel without worrying about Lalo

-Jimmy was saved in the desert from this attack by Mike, who was following Jimmy on Gus's orders.  Every attacker ended up dead.

 

Lalo suspects:

-that Gus is doing something behind Eladio and Bolsa's back

-that something happened in the desert that Jimmy and Kim were not honest about

 

Lalo knows:

-A man named Werner Ziegler was hired to dig something out for Gus in Albuquerque, and now thanks to Casper he knows this site is under Gus's laundromat

-Werner called a man named Michael at the spa he escaped to

-The construction site Gus showed to Bolsa and Lalo was not the real dig site, and that Michael was not really a construction supervisor

-Jimmy's car in the Mexican desert ended up with bullet holes in it

-After making the second phone call to the nursing home, Michael was seen at the laundromat giving orders to guys with guns

 

 

So yea, I can't think of why Lalo would think Jimmy would have anything to do with what Gus and Mike are up to.  Even if he suspects Gus or Mike was involved in something in the desert with guns, I don't see how he would think that relates to the methlab.  I mean, we know Jimmy and Kim have no clue about the methlab!  We also know from BB that Jimmy never learns that Mike works for Gus.

[Anthony 572]

It's gotta come back to the bullethole story. Lalo seeing how many guys were guarding the superlab tipped him off that things are more dangerous than he thought. I think he wants to interrogate (perhaps literally) that story some more. Killing Howard was a sign that he's not going to take shit from Kim this time.

 

After more reflection on this episode (mostly the ending, I'll have to rewatch it to do a write-up of anything else), I'd say this was more like Better Call Saul's "Dead Freight", where the plan went off perfectly, but someone was in the wrong place at the wrong time at the end.

 

I hope this doesn't mean we have an Ozymandias equivalenet to come. (Or maybe I do. )

 

I presume Mike's guys following Kim and Jimmy were pulled off as they were considered low priority targets?

 

And as you said, there definitely seems to be a plothole about how Casper knew the location of the lab.

[Jay 37,281]

 

15 minutes ago, Anthony said:

It's gotta come back to the bullethole story. Lalo seeing how many guys were guarding the superlab tipped him off that things are more dangerous than he thought. I think he wants to interrogate (perhaps literally) that story some more. Killing Howard was a sign that he's not going to take shit from Kim this time.

 

I guess so, but why does he suddently consider that more important to suss out than attacking the laundromat?  Especially after he placed a call that he knew would lessen the amount of guards at the laundromat?

 

Did he somehow guess that Gus had guys watching Jimmy's condo, and they would also go away after making that call?  That's a huge leap of logic.  But it's true, because if Lalo hadn't made that call and just went right to Jimmy's instead, Mike's guys would have grabbed him before he ever got inside!

 

15 minutes ago, Anthony said:

I'd say this was more like Better Call Saul's "Dead Freight", where the plan went off perfectly, but someone was in the wrong place at the wrong time at the end.

 

They bring up the same thing on the Insider podcast

 

15 minutes ago, Anthony said:

I presume Mike's guys following Kim and Jimmy were pulled off as they were considered low priority targets?

 

Right!  My next biggest question after what does Lalo want, is if Kim is going to track down Mike and yell at him something like "You told me I was safe, you told me your men were watching us, protecting us from Lalo!"

 

15 minutes ago, Anthony said:

And as you said, there definitely seems to be a plothole about how Casper knew the location of the lab.

 

I haven't finished the Insider podcast yet, but hopefully they mention this

[Alex 2,833]

 

1 hour ago, Anthony said:

And as you said, there definitely seems to be a plothole about how Casper knew the location of the lab.

Mike drove the Germans to departure point in the desert in a van from the laundromat. That’s probably how Casper knows.

[Jay 37,281]

Oh, MAN!

I can't believe it didn't even occur to me that Jimmy thinks Lalo is dead because Kim lied to him!!  That's why when Lalo shows up, Jimmy is like "How..." because he thought the dude was dead!

 

Man, even if their marriage can somehow recover from them pulling a scam that got an innocent guy killed, he'll never forgive her for lying to him about Lalo, and when he brings that up she'll bring up all the times he lied to her.... they are doomed

[Anthony 572]

We sussed out that the proof Lalo was after was the superlab.

 

We must be able to suss out what he wants with Kim and Jimmy over the next few weeks!

 

I wonder how much Lalo will reveal to them about Gus. After all, Jimmy doesn't even know Gus by name - his only interaction is when Gus helped fish his watch out of the trash can. Gus is a nobody to him. He presumably won't tell him about Nacho - does Lalo even know Nacho is dead?

 

I love how Howard's brains end up over the picture that the post-its were the back of. Interestingly, that picture was in Saul's house in the 601 teaser. That's an...interesting thing to keep hold of.

 

Although I watched Axe and Grind again immediately before Plan and Execution - where you can see every post-it about the plan - I didn't realise that the PI was just an actor until it was revealed in 6.07. But there's clearly a magnifying glass drawing and "Casting" written on the planning board!

 

Although he wasn't wearing this shirt, this photo was clearly taken in the sewer set.

 

 

 

So the only one of these we haven't seen is this. I ask again - what's with what looks like an animal in the back?

 

 

[Damien F 1,742]

What do you guys think will be the ultimate fate of Gene / Jimmy:

1. Dead / Killed
2. In prison
3. Alive and free but unhappy and unfulfilled
4. Alive and free and reunited with Kim

[LSH 968]

Crikey! What a show.

 

I had a good feeling that this mid-season finale would end with another confrontation between Jimmy and Lalo... but I didn't expect it to manifest itself like this! That was brutal.

[Jay 37,281]

What was so effective and brutal about the ending was not just the fact that Lalo killed Howard, but the way the scene was presented!

 

The acting from all 3 parties he barges into was perfect. Half-drunk Howard sort of jokingly assuming this is some guy that doesn't matter at first, and then his whole demeanor change when he sees Kim and Jimmy's reaction.  Kim's reaction of being scared, and Jimmy's reaction of being scared and utterly surprised were all amazing.

 

And then, even with Lalo pulling his gun out and slowly putting the silencer on, I truly didn't know he was gonna just pop Howard in the head real quick like that.  The way it cuts to that brutal act and then the episode quickly ends is a huge part of what made it so effective.  That, and its a twist that makes perfect sense, it isn't just some random death like so many other shows might do.

 

 

On the Insider podcast they talked about having shot a lot more footage than they used, like closeups of Jimmy's eyes and stuff, and boy, were they absolutely right to cut that.  The final edit is fantastic.

[Damien F 1,742]

The second shot of the candle flame, the out of focus figure of Lalo behind an unaware Howard, and the subsequent shock and dread displayed by Jimmy and Kim is one of the best directed moments I've seen on TV in a long long time. It was genuine horror.

[Anthony 572]

Yeah! It's so quick, cruel and brutal. And then it's just...over.

 

I literally put my hands to my head and collapsed back into the sofa for a few seconds after Lalo's "let's talk!". I think my only words were "holy shit".

 

I love that even if you were smart and thought Lalo would be the first visitor, you probably forgot about it by the time he actually showed up. I think for a second after the door knock I thought "Lalo? Nah, it'll be Howard." And then the candle flickered again. 

 

It's rare that I display any reaction to a TV show or movie, but I literally sat up and was on the edge of my seat.

[Jay 37,281]

2 minutes ago, Damien F said:

The second shot of the candle flame, the out of focus figure of Lalo behind an unaware Howard, and the subsequent shock and dread displayed by Jimmy and Kim is one of the best directed moments I've seen on TV in a long long time. It was genuine horror.

 

Yes!

 

1 minute ago, Anthony said:

Yeah! It's so quick, cruel and brutal. And then it's just...over.

 

Yes!

[LSH 968]

Yes indeed. I have to commend the creators of the show for consistently balancing such a variety of moods over the course of an hour. That was like a roller-coaster.

[Alex 2,833]

3 hours ago, Damien F said:

What do you guys think will be the ultimate fate of Gene / Jimmy:

1. Dead / Killed
2. In prison
3. Alive and free but unhappy and unfulfilled
4. Alive and free and reunited with Kim

3 I think. I just can’t see how they can give him a happy ending.

[Anthony 572]

I think 3 as well. I don't think 4 would feel right. 1 and 2 aren't deserved enough. He's not gone full Walter White here.

 

I don't know if anyone else thinks the same, but I feel as if Jimmy has taken a back seat this season. Maybe if it's just because we know what this all leads to in Breaking Bad, but I feel far more invested in all of the other characters right now. And then I'm like, "oh yes, and there's also Jimmy".

[Jay 37,281]

They've released a short teaser for the final episodes - no worries, it contains no footage at all!

 

 

[Anthony 572]

Is that the black and white shot of Kim's apartment? (Video is blocked in my country, but I've seen it elsewhere.)

[Jay 37,281]

Yea

[Jay 37,281]

I really liked Erin (Jessie Ennis) in the last episode!  It was funny how she pulled the conference phone to be directly in front of her and was speaking right into it.  We have that same conference phone at work, and you don't have to do that!  You leave it in the middle of the table, and it picks up everyone's voice just fine!

 

We started Flight Attendant Season 2 the other night and Jessie Ennis was in that, playing a very different character, who was also pretty funny!

[Jay 37,281]

Conversely, the one nit I can think of to pick about the entire episode, the was the Gus scene.  Something about it didn't sit right with me, but everything else was so amazing I didn't ponder on it again until now.

 

Basically, Gus has been shown throughout both shows to be incredibly smart and observant, his "spidey-sense" is unmatched.  Think about him not going to his car in the parking garage in BB, him shaking Hector's hand and knowing Lalo's alive, etc.  But in this episode when Mike plays him the phone call, his spidey sense doesn't go off at all!  He doesn't seem to pause and ponder that Lalo would likely know the line was tapped, etc.  He just nods his head to Mike and agrees to go to his safehouse and move most of their men there too, knowing it will open low priority targets.  Very unusual for him!

 

Now, this could all be undone early in the next episode, though.  I can picture a scene where Gus is sitting at home waiting, and goes "play it for me again".  And then "Was that the only call?" and then they tell him he called first and hung up, then called back.  And then right there, his Spidey-sense will finally kick in, and he'll tell all his men to examine every low priority target. 

 

And heck, maybe that's what happens, and maybe Mike heads to Jimmy's and either finds the 3 of them all there, or maybe Lalo has taken Jimmy and Kim to a second location, and Mike finds Howard's body

[Anthony 572]

This is fascinating and something I hadn't really considered before.

 

 

[Jay 37,281]

It was weird to have no new episode last night after 6 weeks of following the same routine.  I watched Obi-Wan instead, and, well...

 

A new episode of the Insider podcast dropped, about the American Greed video and the Kettlemans in general.  Haven't finished yet but its mostly Vince being Vince, and some interesting stories from the two actors who play the Kettlemens

[Alex 2,833]

Vince’s contribution to the podcast these days is offering absolutely no insight into production and interrupting the crew who actually are offering interesting insight with “Can I just say, you guys did an amazing job in this episode.”

[Jay 37,281]

Haha, yep

[LSH 968]

Anybody else beginning to suffer withdrawal complications yet?

 

Going without for one week was just about bearable but two...

 

[Goldfinger 59]

Between Stranger Things and The Boys back I have enough to fill my time until the show comes back.  That cliffhanger was a shocker and hopefully it'll attract enough interest from those that have stopped watching and help the show go out with the recognition it deserves.

 

 

[Anthony 572]

4 hours ago, LSH said:

Anybody else beginning to suffer withdrawal complications yet?

 

Going without for one week was just about bearable but two...

 

 

Not yet at least. It ended in such a good (horiffic) place I'm happy to let it rest for a few weeks. Now we can get all hyped up again too rather than blowing through the whole season in one continous run.

[A24 4,326]

Season 6 Episode 2 (Carrot and Stick): When it comes to suspense/action, I forgot how good and intense this show can be ...

 

 

 

[Hurmm 91]

I just caught up with the show. I'm not sure how to rank this season yet, but it's strong. It's still the best damn show at the moment. 

 

Tony Dalton... What an asset to the series he's been. Season 4 was easily the weakest after the death of Chuck but it was immediately elevated when Lalo appeared in ep 7 or 8. While Gus can be charming, he's always dead serious. Lalo has a much wider spectrum in which he operates in, and always with a sense of dread.

 

I recently only finished Ozark which petered out to nothingness by the end and that show would have killed to have a character/actor like Lalo/Dalton. 

 

The flickering of the candle and the shifting shadows reminded me very much of David Fincher. 

 

I feel for Howard. He was a little mean at times but never bad and never deserving of such a fate. I thought the writing for his character over the seasons is brilliant (same can be said for many other characters in BCS, more so than BB). So to have it end like this... I'm not sure how I feel about it. I do know that in the scene where he confronts Jimmy and Kim, I was on his side totally. 

[crumbs 14,300]

35 minutes ago, Hurmm said:

The flickering of the candle and the shifting shadows reminded me very much of David Fincher. 

 

Yes! Reminded me of a similar sequence in Alien 3. Its usage here was equally as dread-inducing. 

[Anthony 572]

My favourite thing about that scene was how it was all set up to make you think "Lalo?" when there's a knock at the door. Then you rationalise it and realise it would be very unlikely to be Lalo but Howard instead. And then it's Howard, and you let your guard down, and then you have his amazing speech.

 

And THEN Lalo shows up. That's a "gotcha!" moment that had me literally sit up in my seat, and then put my hands on my head and sit in silence for a minute as the credits started to roll. I think "shit!" was the first word out of my mouth after a lengthy pause.

[crumbs 14,300]

Yep, there hasn't been a TV moment that sharply devastating since Chuck's suicide in the S3 finale. 

[Anthony 572]

I stopped watching BCS about half way through season 3, and I'd been spoiled that Chuck died by the time I finally got around to watching it.

[Jay 37,281]

The Insider podcast eps that have been coming out in between Part 1 and Part 2 are pretty good

 

The first one covered the making of that "American Greed" special, and it was pretty fascinating to learn about how that came about.  It was Vince's idea, and he had Valerie Chu write the script of what the character's would say in their fake interviews, but then everything was passed over to the American Greed team and they filmed the whole episodes themselves, including scouring locations and hiring the re-enactment actors.  It was hoping for evidence there would be another installment coming but I think the 9 minute one we got is all there is.  Oh well.

 

The second one interviewed Mark Margolis (Hector), who told a funny story about the time he was in a porno

[Jay 37,281]

New teaser video released - safe to watch, contains no footage of upcoming episodes