BETTER CALL SAUL

[PrayodiBA 517]

Woww, that was a really satisfying ending!

It think it may very well appease all spectrums of the fans.

 

l love how the three main players of BB got their own “rightful” ending.

 

Walter, being the evil mastermind, got the ending by being dead after having massacred people.

 

Jesse, being “the victim”, finally got his peace and solitude.

 

And Saul, finally belongs to his own world. Even he is welcomed like a king! ( I love the “better call Saul” chant). Even when he got caught, he will never change (like repeatedly alluded with the “time machine” analogy in this episode)

He is finally “rested”

 

Congratulation! 

Now moving on to the next series

[Holko 9,499]

Not a bad ending. These flashbacks worked a lot better.

[crocodile 7,984]

That was fucking perfect.

 

Karol

[Damien F 1,742]

Really liked that. Can't necessarily say I *enjoyed* it because it was quite a heavy episode especially with bringing back Marie which was a lovely surprise actually. But I certainly appreciated where Jimmy and Kim ended up. 

 

I liked that Kim came out of her shell and dipped her feet back into the legal world. Possibly the first step to becoming a lawyer again. I'm a little confused as to whether she is still vulnerable to a civil suit from Howard's widow?

 

Vince and Peter have often said that the Breaking Bad universe often involves facing the consequences of your actions so prison is the most appropriate place for Jimmy. Tracking his character journey through BCS definitely makes him a tragic character. He came quite close to having a good elder law practice and spending his life with Kim which would have been a very nice life indeed compared to where he ended up.

 

The only complaint is I would have liked to have seen more of Jimmy's decision making process on the plane to confess to everything. Nothing flashy, perhaps just an extended close up on Bob's face and let his facial expressions do the work, maybe also intercut with a flashback to Kim and Jimmy at some point to provide further context.

 

Having a quick look on social media, some people are saying they disliked it. I suspect people who expected fireworks similar to Felina will be disappointed. The show is different and the second half of this season was never headed in that direction.

 

In fact, you could argue that the episode where Kim and Jimmy break up is the finale to BCS, and the remaining episodes is a coda to the entire BCS / BrBa universe. 

 

[Holko 9,499]

I didn't feel Jimmy feeling any remorse and coming to terms with the deaths and what he did, he just quickly confessed them so Kim would like him again, whatever the cost.

[Damien F 1,742]

Just started the Insider podcast. I find it fascinating that Bob Odenkirk and Peter Gould immediately addresses the lack of fireworks compared to BrBa, which has been discussed in this thread.

 

[SpaceCoyote 150]

I think that Jimmy's breakthrough was genuine, and Bob seems to feel the same (haven't read or listened to anything from Peter just yet, but I assume he does too). However, I love that the finale left so much of Jimmy's thoughts and motivations up for debate, so that death of the author people have plenty to argue over and chew on for years to come.

 

I'm sure I'll have more to say over time, but one thing I found interesting is the use of The Time Machine in not just this episode, but the season as a whole. It first showed up in Saul’s mansion in the season premiere, and later on Jimmy's nightstand. My reading is that, between the three appearances and the discussions with Mike and Walt, Jimmy's subconscious tried to get through to him for a decade through that book. His brain kept posing that question to him not for others, but for himself, in attempts to spur his long overdue breakthrough. I don't think it's unintentional that its first chronological appearance is with Chuck in Jimmy's presence.

 

I also love the dark joke that Jimmy decides to abandon the Saul Goodman name and reclaim "Jimmy McGill," but will spend the rest of his life surrounded by people who exclusively know him as, and call him, Saul. Once again, I think the extent to which this bothers him is up for debate (along with his overall enjoyment level in prison).

[JohnTheBaptist 57]

.

[crumbs 14,301]

Need some time to process that finale.

 

I didn't hate it... but the final four episodes left me cold and perplexed more than satisfied.

[crocodile 7,984]

For me, it was one of the most satisfying final episodes ever. Definitely suprassing BB. It summarises so many themes of the two series perfectly.

 

Karol

[SpaceCoyote 150]

Interviews!

 

Peter with Rolling Stone (Alan Sepinwall)

Peter with Entertainment Weekly

Peter with The Hollywood Reporter

 

Bob with Entertainment Weekly

Bob with the LA Times

 

Rhea with Entertainment Weekly

 

Peter and Bob are also on the Insider Podcast as the only guests.

 

 

[Jay 37,287]

Better Call Saul 6x13 Saul Gone

 

I really liked the flashbacks, they were not only good little mini-scenes but combined to inform everything going on in the final narrative.

 

In Mike's, it was interesting for him to initially say he'd go back to prevent his son's death, before realizing he really needed to go back to his first bribe, since his corruption is what's responsible for his son's death.  Jimmy is not close to ready to be able to process any of his own past choices at this point.

 

In Walt's, it was great that he immediately realized Jimmy wasn't really asking about Time Travel, but regrets.  And of course Walt's only regret is that he didn't become a millionaire sooner - LOL.  Jimmy isn't ready to answer honestly yet either, though I think Walt's summation that he was "always this way" had an effect on him.  It's intersting to think that following this scene, Walt would spend 6 months alone in New Hampshire and eventually return to Albuquerque and finally admit to Skyler that everything he did was because he liked it.  And Jimmy would spend 9 months in Omaha and eventually return to Albuquerque and finally admit to an entire courtroom that he was nobody's victim, and made all his choices himself.

 

In Chuck's, it was just kinda thrilling to see the early Chuck/Jimmy dynamic again, before Jimmy's real animosity towards Chuck started growing.  But of course the big takeaway is Chuck telling Jimmy there is no shame in changing his course, which is of course what he finally does at the end of the episode.

 

I thought the sequence that got us from Jimmy leaving Marion's house and finally getting caught was poorly staged and just kinda clunky and weird.  The Omaha police were immediately on him like white on rice and I really feel like he would have had tons of time to safely escape them in time.  On top of that, as soon as he was in the dumpster and left the band-aid tin open I knew those diamonds were gonna spill everywhere so that was a rare interseting of them setting something up super predictably.

 

But once he was in custody, from then to the end of the episode was really really good.  I loved that he was able to use his legal mind one final time to negotiate a life + 190 years sentence down to just seven years, and I loved that he used Oakley to assist with this, nicely setup two episodes prior by showing that he had switched from prosecution to defense.

 

And I loved that when he found out Kim admitted to her role in everything, he finally realized he had to admit to himself, to her, and to the legal system that he was responsible as well.  Across both shows and the movie, there isn't that much romance involved, but somehow this gesture from Jimmy is the most romantic thing we've seen happen in this world.

I loved that once he's in Federal prison for 86 years, he's like a mini-hero to the people there for his 6 years he was Saul Goodman in Albuquerque, and the fact that Kim found a way to get in there and share a cigarette with him was a great ending.  Especially when he gave her the finger guns outside and she didn't return them.  Brilliant ending.

[Anthony 572]

Need to process before any longer comments, but that was certainly the best of the post-BB timeline episodes. There wasn't really anything I disliked about this one. It was fine. Neat seeing Marie and Chuck again. The flashbacks didn't feel cheap and fan-servicey like they did the last couple of weeks. It felt like the show was back in it's groove.

 

But I still think I'll skip these final 3 on rewatch. 6.09 was a better ending.

[Jay 37,287]

Jimmy finally admitting to himself that he chose to do everything instead of stuffing all his emotions down is a way better ending than hanging up a shirt after 1 scam.

[Anthony 572]

Yes...but only if you watch 6.11 and 6.12 as well...which I don't want to. 

 

Make Nippy 6.01 and swap the two mansion scenes around. End with Kim and Jimmy breaking up, and seeing the end of the Saul era as his house is cleared.

 

That answers the question of "Why did this man become Saul Goodman?", and then you can go straight into Breaking Bad.

 

Edit: Volume 3 of the score also came out today. Woohoo!

[Jay 37,287]

 

[JohnTheBaptist 57]

23 minutes ago, Anthony said:

That answers the question of "Why did this man become Saul Goodman?", and then you can go straight into Breaking Bad.

Personally I didn't even find the jump from BCS Saul to BB Saul very convincing. They should have ended it earlier and let the viewers do some work connecting the dots. They certainly shouldn't have jumped PAST BB, making the show entirely incomprehensible to people who haven't seen it.

[Anthony 572]

I felt a bit cheated with the timejump. I wanted to see more of what happened between the BCS and BB storylines, rather than spending hours and hours with Gene.

[SpaceCoyote 150]

15 minutes ago, JohnTheBaptist said:

Personally I didn't even find the jump from BCS Saul to BB Saul very convincing. They should have ended it earlier and let the viewers do some work connecting the dots. They certainly shouldn't have jumped PAST BB, making the show entirely incomprehensible to people who haven't seen it.

One of your problems is that viewers have to connect the dots between Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, but you also wish they’d made viewers connect the dots between Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad?

[JohnTheBaptist 57]

Not sure I follow your question.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

16 hours ago, Jay said:

I thought the sequence that got us from Jimmy leaving Marion's house and finally getting caught was poorly staged and just kinda clunky and weird.  The Omaha police were immediately on him like white on rice and I really feel like he would have had tons of time to safely escape them in time

There was a CCTV camera right near the dumpster that Jimmy was hiding in, which is revealed in the shot looking down while the cops surround it with their guns drawn. I took that to mean that as soon as they located his car and house they were able to track him through the CCTV. The idea of them doing that in real-time is admittedly a bit far-fetched, especially for 2010, but not completely unbelievable.

 

Great finale. I’d say better than BB, and in many ways righted some of the moral “wrongs” of that finale (like Walt going out almost heroically) - I was relieved but not surprised that the show far more concerned with legal drama and consequences ultimately ended with a courtroom and justice being done. Look forward to thinking it over more in the coming days.

[Hurmm 91]

A solemn but ultimately fitting end to the series. All the flashbacks in this episode worked extraordinarily well. Taken as a whole, BCS is fucking incredible. What an achievement. 

[crocodile 7,984]

18 hours ago, Jay said:

 

He always comes across like a really great guy. It's funny because Saul/Jimmy is so full of himself that I almost get taken aback by the extraordinary humility and class of Bob Odenkirk. He should be immensely proud as the series is a wonderful achievement.

 

It is probably the greatest compliment to a prequel when you don't even think of it as such. When the first season started I was still in the mindset of "connecting dots and references" and wasn't sure what it was supposed to be in relation to Breaking Bad. It was a straight up prequel for me at that point. But the writting and execution made me watch it regardless. Eventually, once I realised this is supposed to be its own creature, I fell in love with the series. I do enjoy the references to BB but they are only a bonus for me, a fun easter egg, and not the main course. I love BCS entirely on its own terms and for its original material. 

 

I see some people not being happy about the time jump and the lack of clearer transition from Jimmy to Saul. While I am able to understand this to certain extent, this is actually good. I myself get everything to is from the remainder of the show to piece together the full picture. As Nicholas Meyer once said, art thrives on things being left out and/or unsaid. I do find a story to explains itself constantly exceptionally boring. I want to participate and have some bit to do as an audience. Not necessarily in terms of plot puzzles, although that can also work, but more in terms of characterisation and ambiguity. It's cool when you can fill in some of the gaps with your own ideas and it feels very rewarding to be a part of it and see what other people around the world come up with based on their experiences and backgrounds. This is the greatest thing about art. Thanks to Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould I feel treated like an adult.

 

Karol

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

 

 

[Edmilson 7,392]

I loved the finale. More quiet and understated but ultimately much more devastating than the one for Breaking Bad. I think I'll need some time to proccess it. But overall it was quite a fitting end for a wonderful series.

[Matt S. 492]

Agreed that it was a fantastic ending to a fantastic series.  Not much to add to what's already been said, just that I loved all the little touches, callbacks, and Easter eggs that seemed to be littered throughout the episode.  One in particular: when Jimmy was finally coming clean in the courtroom, upon mention of his brother Chuck, the camera shot immediately cut to the EXIT sign, buzzing with electricity, a callback to the final shot of "Chicanery."

[Jay 37,287]

I thought that shot was too on the nose

[crumbs 14,301]

I think they made a concerted effort to tie the series together visually.

 

In the same scene there was a shot of Kim nervously tapping her shoes, another callback to earlier seasons.

 

Even the very opening shots of the episode seemed like a nod to the opening shots of Breaking Bad's Pilot.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

I thought that shot was too on the nose

 

What saves it for me is that it has a new meaning this time - not just a callback to Chicanery, it's literally Saul "exiting" the show and James McGill taking over again for... well, the first time in a long time. Not Jimmy, but James.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

15 hours ago, Dr. Rick said:

 

 

What...was that?! 

[Anthony 572]

With Dave Porter's final score album coming out, I finished my playlist of favourite BCS music. I think the choice of music in this show is even stronger than BB.

 

 

01. Better Call Saul Junior Brown

02. Better Call Saul Main Title Theme (Extended) Little Barrie

03. Address Unknown The Ink Spots & Ella Fitzgerald

04. Milestones Shook

05. Boulevard Of Broken Dreams Juan García Esquivel

06. Unsquare Dance Dave Brubeck

07. The Third Man (The Harry Lime Theme) Malcolm Lockyer & His Concert Orchestra

08. Tune Down Chris Joss

09. Season Of The Witch Mike Bloomfield, Al Kooper & Steve Stills

10. Banzai Pipeline Henry Mancini & His Orchestra

11. Funny (How Time Slips Away) Billy Walker

12. A Mi Manera Gipsy Kings

13. Scorpio Dennis Coffey

14. Border Crossing Dave Porter

15. Why Don't You Do It Little Barrie

16. Sugar Town Nancy Sinatra

17. Hurry Sundown Little Richard

18. Alfonso Muskedunder Todd Terje

19. Popcorn Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass

20. Dark Clouds Rain Soul (Dub Version) Breakestra

21. Grazing In The Grass The Ventures

22. Mambo De Machaguay Lucho Neves Y Su Orquesta

23. Burnin' Coal Les McCann

24. Welcome To My World Jim Reeves

25. The Sidewinder Lee Morgan

26. Laventille Road March Bacao Rhythm & Steel Band

27. diskhat1 Aphex Twin

28. Blackbird Special Stanton Moore

29. Slinky Boots Speedometer

30. Borombon Camilo Azuquita

31. I Got The... Labi Siffre

32. Jim On The Move Lalo Schifrin

33. Devil's Dandruff Dave Porter

34. Best Things In Life The Dreamliners

35. Glidin' Along Bennie Green

36. Sneaking The Crooked Spoke

37. Cafe Granada Kalal

38. A Dreamer's Holiday Perry Como & The Fontane Sisters

39. Days Of Wine And Roses Henry Mancini

40. Better Call Saul End Credits Dave Porter

 

2:09:42

[Holko 9,499]

No Something Stupid?

[Anthony 572]

Can't stand that song!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

There's some great stuff there, @Anthony.

Anything by Dennis Coffey is worth a listen.

[Damien F 1,742]

I completely understand that Peter and Vince want to move away from the BrBa universe given how much of their careers it has consumed. But I wouldn't be surprised if there is an El Camino type of movie focusing on Kim's life post BCS in a few years. Rhea seems to be willing to reprise the role at some point.

[Jay 37,287]

Better Call Saul began airing in 2015 when Rhea Seehorn was 42, and I think the character was meant to also be 42.

 

Since the first episode took place in 2002 and the last we saw Kim was saying goodbye to Jimmy at the jail in early 2011 (when the character would be 51, say), and Seehorn is 50 now, she's naturally aged into the age the character would be in a post-BB, post-BCS world. 

 

A theoretical new Kim show couldn't take place in modern day, as the character would be in her sixties by now, and Seehorn doesn't turn 60 until 2032

[Jay 37,287]

Combining 63 episodes of Breaking Bad, 62 episodes of Better Call Saul, and El Camino (for the purposes of this list counted as 1 "episode"), here's every character who appeared 10 or more times

 

99 Episodes

• Bob Odenkirk as Jimmy McGill

85 Episodes

• Jonathan Banks as Mike Ehrmantraut

65 Episodes

• Bryan Cranston as Walter White
• Aaron Paul as Jesse Pinkman

62 Episodes

• Anna Gunn as Skyler White

60 Episodes

• Rhea Seehorn as Kim Wexler

59 Episodes

• Giancarlo Esposito as Gus Fring

54 Episodes

• Dean Norris as Hank Schrader

53 Episodes

• RJ Mitte as Walter White, Jr.

52 Episodes

• Betsy Brandt as Marie Schrader

43 Episodes

• Patrick Fabian as Howard Hamlin

35 Episodes

• Steven Michael Quezada as Steven Gomez

33 Episodes

• Michael Mando as Nacho Varga

29 Episodes

• Mark Margolis as Hector Salamanca

28 Episodes

• Michael McKean as Chuck McGill

27 Episodes

• Ray Campbell as Tyrus Kitt

25 Episodes

• Jeremiah Bitsui as Victor

23 Episodes

• Tina Parker as Francesca Liddy

20 Episodes

• Kaija Bales/Faith Healey/Abigail Zoe Lewis/Juliet Donenfeld as Kaylee Ehrmantraut

18 Episodes

• Kerry Condon as Stacey Ehrmantraut

17 Episodes

• Tony Dalton as Lalo Salamanca
• Lavell Crawford as Huell Babineaux

16 Episodes

• Charles Baker as Skinny Pete
• Daniel Moncada as Leonel Salamanca
• Cara Pifko as Page Novick

15 Episodes

• Dennis Boutsikaris as Rick Schweikart
• Luis Moncada as Marco Salamanca

14 Episodes

• Ed Begley Jr as Clifford Main
• Julian Bonfiglio as Sound Guy
• Josh Fadem as Camera Guy
• Javier Grajeda as Juan Bolsa
• Jesse Plemons as Todd

13 Episodes

• Christopher Cousins as Ted Beneke
• Laura Fraser as Lydia Rodarte-Quayle
• Matt Jones as Badger
• Rex Linn as Kevin Wachtell

12 Episodes

• Peter Diseth as Bill Oakley

11 Episodes

• John Christian Love as Ernesto
• Juan Carlos Cantu as Manuel Varga
• Vincent Fuentes as Arturo
• Michael Shamus Wiles as ASAC George Merkert

10 Episodes

• Max Arciniega as Domingo / Krazy-8
• Jessie Ennis as Erin Brill
• Hayley Holmes as Make-Up Girl
• Krysten Ritter as Jane Margolis
• Eric Steinig as Nick

Biggest shock for me was that Tuco Salamanca actually only appeared in 4 episodes of BB (and 3 BCS) so didn't make the list

 

And Don Eladio only appeared in 3 BCS episodes and 2 BB episodes

 

Oh, and Gale Boetticher was only in 7 episodes of BB and 2 BCS

 

Lalo was surprisingly low on the list as well - his impact is felt more than others who appeared more often!

[Anthony 572]

So now we have a complete Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul-verse, what order would you recommend watching it to a complete newcomer?

 

I think I'd recommend:

 

Breaking Bad

Better Call Saul 1.01 to 5.10

Better Call Saul 6.10

Better Call Saul 6.01 to 6.09

Breaking Bad (again)

El Camino

Better Call Saul 6.11 to 6.13

[Oswin Pond 58]

6 hours ago, Anthony said:

So now we have a complete Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul-verse, what order would you recommend watching it to a complete newcomer?

 

I think I'd recommend:

 

Breaking Bad

Better Call Saul 1.01 to 5.10

Better Call Saul 6.10

Better Call Saul 6.01 to 6.09

Breaking Bad (again)

El Camino

Better Call Saul 6.11 to 6.13

 

IMO putting Nippy as the opener of season 6 is a really bad idea. It completely breaks the rhythm of the season, even more so since 5 ends with a cliffhanger. It makes so much more sense to make it chronological and have it after 6.09 since that's where the Jimmy timeline ends therefore it's logical to go to the Gene timeline after that, especially since 6.11,12,13 directly follows 6.10 which makes it way less confusing for the viewer instead of jumping around.

 

I wouldn't put Breaking Bad again either, it would be too frustrating for a new viewer to watch the show twice before he can continue Better Call Saul. If it has to be re-watched I would put it after the Gene timeline since episodes 11 to 13 bring a new understanding of the show.

[JohnTheBaptist 57]

On 19/08/2022 at 1:32 PM, Anthony said:

So now we have a complete Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul-verse, what order would you recommend watching it to a complete newcomer?

 

I think I'd recommend:

 

Breaking Bad

Better Call Saul 1.01 to 5.10

Better Call Saul 6.10

Better Call Saul 6.01 to 6.09

Breaking Bad (again)

El Camino

Better Call Saul 6.11 to 6.13

Why would you recommend El Camino at all?

[A24 4,326]

On 16/08/2022 at 12:32 PM, Holko said:

I didn't feel Jimmy feeling any remorse and coming to terms with the deaths and what he did, he just quickly confessed them so Kim would like him again, whatever the cost.

 

This.

 

It felt a bit out of the blue. 

 

To me, the final season was okay (thanks to the scam episodes in gorgeous B&W - highlight is the clothing store robbery) but I've never been a fan of rounding ups, closures, or final acts, because you can feel they are working towards it.

[Jay 37,287]

On 12/07/2022 at 12:02 PM, Jay said:

RHEA SEEHORN FINALLY GOT NOMINATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

https://www.emmys.com/sites/default/files/Downloads/74th-nomination-list-v1_0.pdf

 

Season 6A got a total of 7 Emmy nominations!

 

Drama Series

Lead Actor - Bob Odenkirk

Supporting Actress - Rhea Seehorn

Writing - Thomas Schnauz for 6x07 Plan and Execution

 

Winners to be announced September 12th

 

On 12/07/2022 at 12:02 PM, Jay said:

Music Supervision - Thomas Golubic for 6x02 Carrot and Stick

Sound Editing - for 6x02 Carrot and Stick

Sound Mixing - for 6x02 Carrot and Stick

 

All three of these lost to Stranger ThIngs

[Anthony 572]

And so the trend continues.

 

Emmy nominations: 46

Emmy wins: 0

 

 

[mstrox 6,647]

Season 6 (like Stranger Things and many shows before it) was split in half to have two years of Emmy consideration.  Victory lap is next year, if the voters haven’t forgotten.

[Edmilson 7,392]

BCS made it to IndieWire's list of great shows that haven't won Emmys, alongside The Wire, The Good Place, Star Trek and even SpongeBob.

 

https://www.indiewire.com/gallery/best-tv-shows-with-no-emmys/

 

Next year will be its last shot. It'll be unbelieavable if the Emmys ignore the masterful writing, directing and acting from episodes like Point and Shoot, Fun and Games and the finale

[crocodile 7,984]

Whenever anyone mentions Emmys I always think of this. 😉

 

 

 

Katol

 

[SpaceCoyote 150]

Vince's new show has landed at Apple (where many of the former Sony execs he worked with have migrated), and stars Rhea Seehorn. It already has a two-season commitment.

 

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/vince-gilligan-apple-series-rhea-seehorn-1235380950/

 

Quote

“After fifteen years, I figured it was time to take a break from writing antiheroes… and who’s more heroic than the brilliant Rhea Seehorn?” Gilligan said in a statement. “It’s long past time she had her own show, and I feel lucky to get to work on it with her. And what nice symmetry to be reunited with Zack Van Amburg, Jamie Erlicht and Chris Parnell! Jamie and Zack were the first two people to say yes to ‘Breaking Bad’ all those years ago. They’ve built a great team at Apple, and my wonderful, long-time partners at Sony Pictures Television and I are excited to be in business with them.”

 

[Jay 37,287]

And now we wait for the announcement of Peter Gould's next venture

[Anthony 572]

Cool, I'm in.

[A24 4,326]

A young Rhea Seehorn ...