THE BFG OST ALBUM Discussion

[Jay 37,352]

16 minutes ago, alextrombone94 said:

Overall I'd say it is a more consistent listening experience than TFA, but the individual highlights of TFA are far superior

 

That's probably a fair assessment.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

Honestly, I didn't finished the album, stopped it after the half. It really seems to be a child movie with a lot of goofy action and very few moving moments.

 

This is how I feel about The Pagemaster.

 

The BFG on the other hand... Let's just say like with The Force Awakens, I'm not at all understanding the negativity. Not every track has been memorable and I agree that this is hardly an instant classic, but I'm really enjoying it for what it is. And it's left more of an impression on me than say, Lincoln did on its first play.

 

NP: Dream Jars (first listen to The BFG)

[Romão 2,274]

I always need a half of dozen listens to make a fair assessment of this score, I'm just not a very good at grasping music after the very first listens. God knows how long it took to warm up to Secret of NIMH

[JacksonElmore 69]

33 minutes ago, amh1219 said:

 

This is how I feel about The Pagemaster.

 

The BFG on the other hand... Let's just say like with The Force Awakens, I'm not at all understanding the negativity. Not every track has been memorable and I agree that this is hardly an instant classic, but I'm really enjoying it for what it is. And it's left more of an impression on me than say, Lincoln did on its first play.

 

NP: Dream Jars (first listen to The BFG)

finally someone else who feels the way i do. I was beginning to think i was a loon for not feeling disappointed 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I have now heard this three times, the required amount of times before having an opinion. 

 

My feelings remain the same.  It's not for me.  And no amount of masterful orchestration will dazzle me into thinking it's already the best of the year regardless of its relative mediocrity in Williams' own output.  Orchestration is just frosting.  Great, but unfulfilling if there's no delightfully fluffy compositional cake under it.  

 

So, composition: 7/10

Orchestration: 9/10

Aesthetic (very subjective): 5/10

Emotional/dramatic engagement: 6/10

 

I don't like number ratings but this seems usable actually.  Incidentally, the latter two categories tend to be more important to me, particularly with film music. 

[Quintus 5,399]

The last two are by far the most important factors for the vast majority of listeners. 

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I just saw the film but can't comment anything about the score because I fell asleep 36 times. I may listen to the score at home on spotify or maybe not. The film was so bad that it almost turned off my interest for the music...

[Nemesis 245]

Yes!!!

 

[Booplor 12]

The whole movie is pretty lightweight, but the score captures it nicely, and has some beautiful moments.  There are no big dramatic moments in the film, only some that are more aesthetically beautiful than others, and again, the score captures those individual moments very well.

 

It's the best score I've heard this year.  It just doesn't have those heart wrenching moments that the film was lacking, that every post-2010 Wiliams score (other than Tin tin) has had.  It's a consistently pleasant listen, and some of the track Dream Country has my favorite Wiliams' trope with the flighty lilting high strings. 

 

Someone earlier in this thread (I believe) compared this score to James Horner's Casper, and I think that's a very fair comparison.  The more lightweight stuff here sounds at home with the more playful music from Casper, or even Land Before Time.  And if it was anyone other than Williams had written a score that sounded like this in 2016, everyone would be in complete awe of them.

[Will 2,215]

I'm leaving now to see the film. Haven't listened to the OST (other than samples) so I don't know how much score analysis I'll be able to do.

[Jay 37,352]

My copy arrived today from Amazon as well

[ocelot 508]

3 hours ago, crocodile said:

Don't get me wrong. Compositionally it is excellent. The orchestrations are better than anybody else's in this business. From that perspective, the score is a confirmation of John Williams' skill and impeccable craft. But, at this point, I bet even his farts are impressive in their wonderful harmonic complexity. It's not even that I need to have big hummable themes (not there are any in The BFG), it's a sense of purpose I'm looking for. And The BFG is aimless, weightless and, frankly, quite boring.

 

It probably doesn't help that I dislike great portions of Home Alone, Hook and his Harry Potter scores (with the exception of Azkaban). You know, all the cutesy and breezy underscore in between good bits. I like my fantasy music bit weightier, perhaps bit edgier and better defined. And this score largely consists of fluffy underscore that could drive me into diabetes. I'm not saying that this particular one should be "edgier" but, surely, there must have been a way to make it a bit more interesting.

 

I am heartbroken.

 

Karol

Don't be. You can't expect every Williams Score to be in your limited capabilities as a listener. LOL, sorry, just being an ass, a la Maggie Smith.

 

No, You are totally right in that it all depends on what you like to listen to. I love huge orchestral color so I love this but lets say Lincoln, which is a fabulous score is not my cup of tea except for Malice Towards None. We all have different things we respond to and that's a great thing or music would be so boring. I agree that Azkaban is such the better Potter Score. So much stuff in there to sink your teeth into. This score, I am just astounded by the orchestrations more than anything else, but for me, that makes me want to learn. There are a few themes which I do love but I can see why a lot of people think it is filler rather than meat and potatoes. I was hoping for an action cue or two as well.

56 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

I have now heard this three times, the required amount of times before having an opinion. 

 

My feelings remain the same.  It's not for me.  And no amount of masterful orchestration will dazzle me into thinking it's already the best of the year regardless of its relative mediocrity in Williams' own output.  Orchestration is just frosting.  Great, but unfulfilling if there's no delightfully fluffy compositional cake under it.  

 

So, composition: 7/10

Orchestration: 9/10

Aesthetic (very subjective): 5/10

Emotional/dramatic engagement: 6/10

 

I don't like number ratings but this seems usable actually.  Incidentally, the latter two categories tend to be more important to me, particularly with film music. 

Orchestrations might be frosting to a degree, I actually think it's a lot more than frosting because seriously hardly anyone can master the orchestra like that, but even if it were so, what a great score it is to study and master even a fraction of that orchestration. I bet the orchestra had a blast playing it. I do agree that without an incredible theme, orchestration is just orchestration but there are a few beautiful themes in there in my opinion. I think Williams was just having a lot of fun. I would like him to rest before doing Star Wars Episode 8 to recharge. I think this would have taken a lot out of him.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I'm liking a lot. It's JW's love letter to flute  There's a lot of balletic grace all throughout, which does make sense with the words JW used to describe the film in the interview linked on the main page. It's a lightweight score, the tone is breezy all the time, much like a score for an old Disney cartoon, so I can see why some are being put off by it. But I guess the film is very lightweight and breezy too.

[Jay 37,352]

Yes that is exactly the situation.  The score doesn't have any deep emotional moments or soaring climactic moments because the film doesn't either.  It's a surprising low key and subdued film with very low stakes.  The score follows suit.

 

I am a bit surprised there isn't any concert arrangements other than the end credits.  Even Tintin got an arrangement of Snowy's Theme and War Horse got that Learning The Call extension.

[TownerFan 4,983]

The main theme is quite lovely and tender, though. It's very cantabile and even soaring when it's played by the full strings in the final suite.

[Jay 37,352]

Yes its very lovely and plays well in the film in several spots

[Nemesis 245]

I like the rendition in the Finale very much!

[curlytoot 97]

Are those Wagner tubas I hear, in the brass chorale in "Meeting the Queen"?!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

37 minutes ago, ocelot said:

I actually think it's a lot more than frosting because seriously hardly anyone can master the orchestra like that,

 

I just don't agree with this attitude of mystique and unattainability regarding orchestration.  It's similar to what you might hear Conrad Pope say.  Absolutely untrue that "hardly anyone" can master the orchestra like that.  I think that attitude is nothing but damaging and discouraging to the art form and everyone involved. 

[King Mark 3,631]

So this film has a lot of fart jokes

 

What track underscores the farting?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

1 hour ago, Lonnegan said:

The last two are by far the most important factors for the vast majority of listeners. 

 

Yep.  Admittedly early on I was a real egghead about this stuff and approached listening as a composer rather than a, well, listener.  I've long since evolved on that and now care about experience only.  I'm not here to grade someone's voice leading or their balancing of woodwinds.  Is it aesthetically interesting?  Does it make me care and feel something?  That's all that matters.

 

Some composer I can't remember right now, but Sharky may, was talking about some new piece and had some funny way of describing how it was all orchestrational fluff with no real musical content.  Wish I could remember.

[Jay 37,352]

1 hour ago, king mark said:

So this film has a lot of fart jokes

 

What track underscores the farting?

 

There's only two fart scenes.  The first one, I dunno if its on the OST or not.

 

The second one was during the classical and bagpipe section of the film so isn't on the OST (and isn't a Williams composition anyway)

[crocodile 8,006]

I'd only like to add that my favourite track on the entire album is Dream Jars. It feels like something from Williams' concert work and thus feels more interesting.

 

Karol

[Marcus 390]

11 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

 

I just don't agree with this attitude of mystique and unattainability regarding orchestration.  It's similar to what you might hear Conrad Pope say.  Absolutely untrue that "hardly anyone" can master the orchestra like that.  I think that attitude is nothing but damaging and discouraging to the art form and everyone involved. 

 

Well, I think rather than be discouraged, one should find inspiration in this sort of extreme mastery and virtuosity. 

 

It is a craft, and can be mastered through very hard work, of course.

 

But to be fair, in the field of contemporary orchestral film music, Williams IS without peer in terms of pure craftsmanship.

 

There's much more to his game than just technique; there's an artistry -a power of spirit and mind, and a playful panache- that feels far removed from other film musical fare.

 

What I so admire is Williams' willingness to always invest so much effort into details and layers of complexity most audiences -and even experienced listeners- won't ever notice or catch.

And it's done solely in the service of art, wich I find humbling and very beautiful: At 84, he still wants to prove his worth as a composer, and go whatever extra mile a project seems to offer in order to do so.

He is still discovering, still pushing himself...

It reminds me of something Haydn reportedly said very late in life, reflecting on a long and illustrious career, and the fact that his time was running out: "And to think that only now am I beginning to understand how to write for woodwinds"...

 

Williams elevates and ennobles anything he scores. Not simply because he is one of the greatest composers of our time, but because he puts so much effort, expertise, and, frankly, love and care into everything he crafts. He is still in relentless pursuit of excellence.

 

I am more than impressed. I am deeply grateful.

 

 

 

 

[Jilal 569]

49 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

I just don't agree with this attitude of mystique and unattainability regarding orchestration.  It's similar to what you might hear Conrad Pope say.  Absolutely untrue that "hardly anyone" can master the orchestra like that.  I think that attitude is nothing but damaging and discouraging to the art form and everyone involved. 

 

Someone had to say it.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'm glad you don't find it to be utterly objectionable contrarian nonsense as I'm sure many do.

 

17 minutes ago, Marcus said:

 

Well, I think rather than be discouraged, one should find inspiration in this sort of extreme mastery and virtuosity. 

 

It is a craft, and can be mastered through very hard work, of course.

 

But to be fair, in the field of contemporary orchestral film music, Williams IS without peer in terms of pure craftsmanship.

 

There's much more to his game than just technique; there's an artistry -a power of spirit and mind, and a playful panache- that feels far removed from other film musical fare.

 

What I so admire is Williams' willingness to always invest so much effort into details and layers of complexity most audiences -and even experienced listeners- won't ever notice or catch.

And it's done solely in the service of art, wich I find humbling and very beautiful: At 84, he still wants to prove his worth as a composer, and go whatever extra mile a project seems to offer in order to do so.

He is still discovering, still pushing himself...

It reminds me of something Haydn reportedly said very late in life, reflecting on a long and illustrious career, and the fact that his time was running out: "And to think that only now am I beginning to understand how to write for woodwinds"...

 

Williams elevates and ennobles anything he scores. Not simply because he is one of the greatest composers of our time, but because he puts so much effort, expertise, and, frankly, love and care into everything he crafts. He is still in relentless pursuit of excellence.

 

I am more than impressed. I am deeply grateful.

 

Though this is all put in more grandiose terms than I may, I don't fully disagree and am not sure if it's supposed to be a refutation of anything I've said.

 

Where we do disagree is that this is all somehow unique to Williams at the moment, and that it is consistent. 

 

Sometimes I do believe he is genuinely less inspired by material than he may otherwise be, and what results is less inspired than it may otherwise be.  I find that to be the case here, in my own subjective experience - which is as subjective as yours.  As much love and care is put into it, the result, to me, betrays an unmistakable lack of complete investment.  Which is fine, it happens.  It has nothing to do with one's skill or work ethic, only the degree to which something resonates your emotional core.

 

And I find power of spirit and mind, playful panache, in many places in today's film music.  And, effort put into details and layers that many people won't ever notice.  Williams is perhaps without peer in film music as far as traditional craftsmanship goes, but I'd say he has equals in other forms.  There are many, many hard working composers who put just as much love and attention into their work.  Perhaps they're not following traditional compositional processes.  Perhaps their music just isn't widely known.  But they're there.

[Jilal 569]

18 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

I'm glad you don't find it to be utterly objectionable contrarian nonsense as I'm sure many do.

 

It's of no use deifying any artist who has worked hard for years and years to achieve his current level of skill and expertise. It's very tempting to do so if you're a fan like most here, but ultimately it's an obstacle in most cases.

 

Gordy Haab is a fine example. It's not impossible to become a perfectly fine imitator of any composer's jargon and idioms if you're determined and willing enough. You'd only be an imitator, however ...

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

 

 

[Marcus 390]

1 hour ago, Jilal said:

 

It's of no use deifying any artist who has worked hard for years and years to achieve his current level of skill and expertise. It's very tempting to do so if you're a fan like most here, but ultimately it's an obstacle in most cases.

 

Gordy Haab is a fine example. It's not impossible to become a perfectly fine imitator of any composer's jargon and idioms if you're determined and willing enough. You'd only be an imitator, however ...

 

The greatest thing my first composition teacher taught me when I was about 17 was to never be discouraged by the great standards of the composers I admired (chiefly Shostakovich, Ravel and Williams at the time).

 

So many fledgling artists feel burdened by their forebears, and see their achievements as something unattainable.

 

In my experience, what continues to be the curse of most imitators, isn't so much their adherence to existing models, but rather their failure to gain so deep an insight as to become liberated from the model, yet at the same time becoming empowered by "growing through" ones source of influence.

 

 

[Jay 37,352]

Listening to the OST again, it does seem that Overture is a different recording than the End Credits, its only the same from 0:00-0:36.  Maybe Overture is a rejected teaser cue?   And Williams liked it and chose to start the End Credits with it?  Or maybe he liked the way the End Credits started, so he recorded another version of the intro just for album purposes?

[ocelot 508]

3 hours ago, TheWhiteRider said:

 

I just don't agree with this attitude of mystique and unattainability regarding orchestration.  It's similar to what you might hear Conrad Pope say.  Absolutely untrue that "hardly anyone" can master the orchestra like that.  I think that attitude is nothing but damaging and discouraging to the art form and everyone involved. 

Not ture. I know so many fellow composers, a lot working in the industry and they pretty much all use block orchestrations. None get complicated with it and when I ask they just say, I just don't know how to do it well. It's just not done by hardly anyone nowadays. I can do it, trust me, but not many others that I know.

[Jay 37,352]

Just looking through the OST booklet now.

 

Nice note from Spielberg:

 

Quote

Set in a land ruled by giants and inspired by dreams, The BFG is about an unlikely friendship between two orphaned souls who find in each other humour, adventure, strength, and courage.

If you know the Roald Dahl story, you can close your eyes and just by listening to John Williams' compositions, you will emotionally experience what we experience with our eyes open.

 

A light symphony of musical poetry that complements Melissa Mathison's adaptation, John's score brings out all the heart, mystery, and magic in the performances of Mark Rylance as the BFG and newcomer Ruby Barnhill as our headstrong and soulful Sophie.

 

The greatest film composer of our generation has written music so timeless and youthful, it makes me believe he is actually aging backwards.

 

BFG says, "All my dreams is beginning here,", and I feel the same way about John's score.  In fact, it is my dream come true.

 

[curlytoot 97]

The opening of "Giants Netted" reminds me of the opening of "The Falcon" from TFA. Those two repeated notes at 0:06 sound to me like they're the start of Finn's theme, but then veer off into the main BFG theme.

 

Also, the first half of the lovely brass chorale theme in "Meeting the Queen" reminds me a tiny bit of the theme from SAVING PRIVATE RYAN's "Omaha Beach". And, still can't figure out if those are Wagner tubas or not, but I'm loving the sound.

[Jilal 569]

1 hour ago, Marcus said:

The greatest thing my first composition teacher taught me when I was about 17 was to never be discouraged by the great standards of the composers I admired (chiefly Shostakovich, Ravel and Williams at the time).

 

So many fledgling artists feel burdened by their forebears, and see their achievements as something unattainable.

 

In my experience, what continues to be the curse of most imitators, isn't so much their adherence to existing models, but rather their failure to gain so deep an insight as to become liberated from the model, yet at the same time becoming empowered by "growing through" ones source of influence.

 

I happen to think of you as a perfect example of that ideology, Marcus.

[Alex 2,835]

With regards to JW being inspired by material. I definitely find that some of JW's best scores have come when he hasn't worked with Spielberg. 

Far and Away, POA, Memoirs of a Geisha, Seven Years in Tibet come to mind

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

47 minutes ago, curlytoot said:

The opening of "Giants Netted" reminds me of the opening of "The Falcon" from TFA. Those two repeated notes at 0:06 sound to me like they're the start of Finn's theme, but then veer off into the main BFG theme.

 

Also, the first half of the lovely brass chorale theme in "Meeting the Queen" reminds me a tiny bit of the theme from SAVING PRIVATE RYAN's "Omaha Beach". And, still can't figure out if those are Wagner tubas or not, but I'm loving the sound.

 

That brass sound really is wonderful. It is possible that they are Wagner tubas but I doubt it(and they are perfectly in tune ) Williams seldom uses them, some other film composers might use W tubas(or the players might pick one when need to be heard, lol).

 

I'm now listening to the score on spotify for the first time. I slept trough this horrid movie earlier today, so not many memories.

 

What can I say, I just love everything I hear.

 

[BernieTheDog 2]

I can't wait to see what Mr.Williams has in store for us in the BFG!!

[Jilal 569]

8 minutes ago, hornist said:

That brass sound really is wonderful. It is possible that they are Wagner tubas but I doubt it(and they are perfectly in tune ) Williams seldom uses them, some other film composers might use W tubas(or the players might pick one when need to be heard, lol).

 

It's just the usual 6.4.4.1, I suppose. Perhaps an extra tuba as a low end extension of the horns.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I just love the time travel in The Witching Hour 00:56 to almoust forty yeas back. The Fury.

[Jilal 569]

1 minute ago, hornist said:

I just love the time travel in The Witching Hour 00:56 to almoust forty yeas back. The Fury.

 

What about AOTC?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

3 hours ago, ocelot said:

Not ture. I know so many fellow composers, a lot working in the industry and they pretty much all use block orchestrations. None get complicated with it and when I ask they just say, I just don't know how to do it well. It's just not done by hardly anyone nowadays. I can do it, trust me, but not many others that I know.

 

I know a lot of people too.  And I've heard them do it in their personal music.  Whether they're permitted to by employers is another matter.  

[Tom 4,653]

The Dream Country track is sublime and mesmerizing--perhaps my favorite cue (not including concert pieces) from the last 10 years worth of his scores.   

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I do love the moment towards the opening, a little more than a minute in, with the wonderfully French harmonies and string solos in octaves.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Just got done with my first listen.  It might be Williams' most frustrating score.  The lyrical music is really good but it gets drowned out by monotonous mickey-mousing and flute-trills.  

[Tom 4,653]

41 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Just got done with my first listen.  It might be Williams' most frustrating score.  The lyrical music is really good but it gets drowned out by monotonous mickey-mousing and flute-trills.  

Williams is doing something quite unique with the so called mickey-mousing.  How many times do you hear almost avant-garde modern compositional techniques used as the basis for such scenes?  In a kid's movie no less. 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Hmm, could you point to specific moments for the almost avant-garde?  Stalling was often more "avant-garde" than what I recall from this score for Looney Tunes....

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

Listening to the OST again, it does seem that Overture is a different recording than the End Credits, its only the same from 0:00-0:36.  Maybe Overture is a rejected teaser cue?   And Williams liked it and chose to start the End Credits with it?  Or maybe he liked the way the End Credits started, so he recorded another version of the intro just for album purposes?

 

I think its for programtic purposes. While not quite a concert suite of Sophie's Theme, it gives listeners a nice presentation of the main theme to start things off and then gets to the score proper.

 

[nightscape94 965]

Got my copy in the mail today; was waiting for me when I got back from work.

 

I've been listening to it on Spotify and I plan on taking the CD with me in the car.  I won't give any thoughts until I've gone through it a few times.

[curlytoot 97]

I have not yet seen the film; what are we calling the theme that pops up at 0:55 in "Blowing Dreams", 1:27 in "Sophie's Future", 1:31 & 2:27 in "The Boy's Drawings", 1:14 & 2:29 in "Meeting the Queen", 1:01 in "Finale", and 4:19 in "Sophie and the BFG" (among others that I might have missed)? It's a gorgeous little melody.

[King Mark 3,631]

I think it's the "b" section of the main theme because they flow one into the other sometimes

 

If Williams wrote a real concert version it probably have the 2 themes