Sandor 796 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I've always wondered: did Williams intentionally quote the theme from Battlestar Galactica in The Phantom Menace (can't think of any reason) or are the melodic similarities just pure coincidence?The 'qoute' I'm talking about can be heard around 1:30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I don't think so. To my (admittedly untrained) ears, it sounds like a reworking of a phrase of the main Star Wars theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I've wondered about that since 2000.Sandor, how are you these days on the Augie's Band = The Emperor's Theme debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 796 Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 I've wondered about that since 2000.Sandor, how are you these days on the Augie's Band = The Emperor's Theme debate?I've opened myself up to the -albeit slight- possibility that Augie may indeed be an intentional variation on The Emperor's Theme. It took a lot from me to admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Has anybody asked Williams himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 No he didn't do it intentionally. And if we are to believe Ken Wannberg (he denied it in a very old Soundtrack Magazine interview) he didn't quote the Emperor's Theme either in Augie's Great Municipal Band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 But he obviously did (Ken Wannberg must be mistaken)! And that's sort of the whole point; it's musically speaking very literally a "phantom menace", and that kind of reasoning, already present in the construction of Anakin's theme, is completely consistent with how Williams works. I simply cannot fathom that "Augie's Great Municipal Band" would or could have been written as an exact pentatonization of the Emperor's theme, with an identical melodic contour, any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Completely off topic by the third post!Hardly a new record, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 No he didn't do it intentionally. And if we are to believe Ken Wannberg (he denied it in a very old Soundtrack Magazine interview) he didn't quote the Emperor's Theme either in Augie's Great Municipal Band.Wait. Wasnt Wannberg the one who confirmed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 No he didn't do it intentionally. And if we are to believe Ken Wannberg (he denied it in a very old Soundtrack Magazine interview) he didn't quote the Emperor's Theme either in Augie's Great Municipal Band.Wait. Wasnt Wannberg the one who confirmed it?Memory fails. Hopefully someone has that Soundtrack Magazine handy so they can check this thing once and for all!And then we'll say the contrary and claim Wannberg doesn't know anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 IIRC it was Wannberg who confirmed it, which led to Roald/Sandor to conclude that Wannberg must have been mistaken. Which led to him being hated by many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Who oh who of us can cast their mind to that legendary time when Episode I came out and remember such details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Ricard! He holds the ancient knowledge now lost to time.As for the old BSG theme. I remember watching the film and taking note of when that bit played and there is nothing there that would warrent a deliberate statement of it.We know ofcourse that Williams was aware of the theme (apparently he of someone close to him was there when it was originally recorded, to ascertain if it was not in violation of copyright). And ofcourse JW recorded it with the Boston pops (a particulary fine rendition IMO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 One thing is certain is that, if it is indeed the Battlestar Galactica theme he quoted there, it was an homage and not a rip-off, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Of course! Always an homage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Huh, I never caught that before. Sounds like an unintentional similarity to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,790 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I think 20th century fox sued the Battlestar film for its soundtrack.Do you think Williams would do a thing that could make them take revenge?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Huh, I never caught that before. Sounds like an unintentional similarity to me.Agreed - it's sounds like a (fairly obvious) reworking of the more lyrical B-section of the Main Title to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I don't think it was intentional. I agree with the people saying it sounds like a variation on the "Main Title." A better question: did Ramin Djawadi rip off Attack of the Clones for the Game of Thrones theme? Arpy and Sharkissimo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Nope. That's pure coincidence (speaking to the BG reference . . . the original topic of this post). I've never caught that before, though--and it's a fair (though hardly exact) resemblance. Nice catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I think the desire to state the Colonial Anthem in music is simply part of our genetic heritage. John Williams was born to subconsciously quote that passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 891 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 He lost a bet with Stu Philips at a stag party the night before he wrote that cue. John either had to pay for everyone's drinks or put Stu's theme into the score. He wisely chose the later as the bar bill was just under $600. I know this because I was there. John was wasted by the way. I'm frankly surprised he remembered. And surprised he made it to work the next day. No one else did. Omen II 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,385 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Of course it's just a coincidence. It sounds KINDA like the BG theme in a slightly different key, but at the same time it's also a common phrase, and -- as others have said -- a variation on Williams' existing material. This is one of those cases where people read things INTO the music based on similar features, the musical equivalent of pareidolia.In a totally unrelated note, Stu and John both worked on GIDGET GOES TO ROME back in 1963 -- Stu as arranger (mostly of the songs), and Williams as the score composer. But they never met, according to Stu (who I met during a garden party in LA in 2012 -- I was taken aback when he greeted me with "ah, the legendary Thor", but of course he sometimes posts on the FSM Messageboard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 You certainly are a legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 This is one of those cases where people read things INTO the music based on similar features, the musical equivalent of pareidolia.Or apophenia. Or stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 213 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 It's always been a variation of the B section of the main title, to me. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Didn't he also quote the Last Starfighter theme in Angela's Ashes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,385 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Didn't he also quote the Last Starfighter theme in Angela's Ashes?LOL!True. He also obviously quoted Faltermeyer's TOP GUN in SCHINDLER'S LIST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricsim88 243 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 He definitely quoted Strauss's Death and Transfiguration for Superman love theme.....Might have been intentional though. As a pro musician I don't find this offensive. Beethoven copied Mozart, who copied Haydn...etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 It's always been a variation of the B section of the main title, to me.This. Just goes to show how generic the BSG theme is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 It's more like the theme quoted Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Shouldn't something generic be unrecognizable and not iconic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,306 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Indeed, even though it dates from a prehistoric time, everybody here seems to know the theme by heart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Good point. Especially considering the show only ran for a few seasons and was pretty much forgotten up until the remake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,306 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 OTOH, I don't remember the reboot theme ... something with tribal percussion ... I liked it ... but I don't remember it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Yeah lots of taiko drums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Indeed, even though it dates from a prehistoric time, everybody here seems to know the theme by heart!Which marks the original as a classic score, in my mind. And even though Phillips was obviously trying to recreate the epic feel that Williams brought back to the fore with his Star Wars score (no doubt since that's what Larson wanted for his show), this is the first time I've seen someone making a direct connection between the two—and it's JW copying Stu, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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