Thomas Newman's SPECTRE

[crocodile 7,984]

Funny you should say that.

Speaking of Spectre, the very opening of track 1 isn't from the beginning of the film. You get a statement of a Bond theme over logos, then the traditional gunbarrel, and then it jumps straight into the percussion in the first track. But it takes the time before we hear Bond's theme. It's either trimmed for album or looped in the film, can't really tell. And vibraphone-like thing at the beginning is Mr. Hinx's theme.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Seriously! I might need to take out my hearing aid during the title song for fear of that voice in Dolby XD will do serious damage!

[crocodile 7,984]

Thankfully, the soundtrack album only contains the 2-minute instrumental version. Which is actually an actual cue in the film. Which is why it's placed in the middle of Newman's album.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Interesting that Coolman seems perfectly content to use Arnold's arrangement of the Bond theme rather then having a go at doing one himself

[crocodile 7,984]

You mean the end credits version? Yeah.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep

Because of this, Arnold remains a credited composer in the Bond franchise

[crocodile 7,984]

What about the rest of Newman's score? Did you enjoy that? No comments in your review (that I noticed).

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I liked what I heard in the film. Need to listen to the CD.

[crocodile 7,984]

Curiously, the album has no gunbarrel or end credits arrangements of Bond theme. But then, it's 79:45 already so...

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I hate it when they don't include the gunbarrel!

[crocodile 7,984]

Yeah, the album is very weird in that sense. As I said before, it opens with Mr. Hinx's theme, then it jumps into the opening sequence.

I would also like to have the logos music, before the gunbarrel.

Karol

[MedigoScan 324]

It just had to be one of those logos that has noise in it

(Damn you Lion)

[gkgyver 1,645]

Curiously, the album has no gunbarrel or end credits arrangements of Bond theme. But then, it's 79:45 already so...

Karol

Why curious?

If the film uses Arnold's arrangement, and he gets royalties or something, it's left off purely for monetary reason.

The album could have really left off some Newman filler in favor of the theme though.

[crocodile 7,984]

Is the gunbarrel also Arnold's arrangement?

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It sounds very "classic" Bond-like. I would say so

[crocodile 7,984]

But the logo music is definitely new, right?

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

New? Its a slowed down version of the Bond theme. So it depends on your definition.

[crocodile 7,984]

Newly arranged, not reused directly from previous films.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No

[crocodile 7,984]

Is it a "yes" no or "no" no?

karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes it is!

[crocodile 7,984]

lol

It is reused or not reused?

Karol

[gkgyver 1,645]

It has stems of the original Arnold recording removed, edited, was slowed down and then pitch-corrected.

At least that seems to be the new way of scoring films from the editing room.

PS: this is sarcasm.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

lol

It is reused or not reused?

Karol

Yeah

Listening to the score now (Careless).

Good stuff! Coolman had got his Bond voice down now.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

But the logo music is definitely new, right.

The logos and gunbarrel are a slight re-arrangement of the final cue from SF, which is itself a re-tweaking of Arnold's CR Bond theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Really digging this score.

It has more depth and texture then Bridge Of Spies.

[gkgyver 1,645]

DEPTH?

Since when does sound design count as depth? It's the most empty an anonymous Bond score ever. Not to mention lazy. Yes, lazy. I don't care how much time was invested, the result sounds fragmented and lazy as fuck. The only short stretches that go anywhere are the ones where Newman dares to play the Bond theme's chromatic vamp.

Highlight of the whole album is the orchestral version of the title song, and that's because it's the only piece resembling a lengthy, coherent, melodic piece of music on the whole album.

Speaking of which, releasing an album with neither title song, nor gun barrel, nor Bond theme recording, is insulting.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So...you don't like it?

[Bilbo 3,709]

Haven't heard the album yet but based on how it's used in the film I enjoyed the score more than Skyfall. There are definitely better abound scores though.

Sam Smith's song is awful. Glad it's not on the album because skipping it every time would be a nuisance.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There are definitely better abound scores though.

You could say that about every score save one!

[Bilbo 3,709]

I keep hitting the a key on my iPad instead of the shift key.

Sigh.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sam Smith's song is awful. Glad it's not on the album because skipping it every time would be a nuisance.

Actually the song isnt awful at all. It's the decision to sing it like that that mires is.

The melody is rather excellent.

[Bilbo 3,709]

The instrumental version of it was quite nice alright.

The melody is nice but as a song it fails. It just goes nowhere and yes, the way he sings input is truly awful.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The melody has a catchy hook that Skyfall never did have.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

After having listened to the score in the context of the film, I've gotta say I prefer Newman's Skyfall. It complimented the action the better and there was more variation in tone. While more cohesive, Spectre feels monotonous and often bludgeoning.

That's not to say I still don't enjoy Snow Plane, Secret Room, Vauxhall Bridge, Donna Lucia, Madeleine, Los Muertos Vivos Estan and Silver Wraith and their reprisals--but it does come like a overlong footnote to Skyfall--which is good description of the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Reprisals?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The melody has a catchy hook that Skyfall never did have.

It just proves that melody ain't everything. Something as simple as a backbeat and a bass groove would've given some life to WOTW.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And better vocals

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Reprisals?

Restatements etc. you know what I mean Steef.

Silver Wraith is restated in a subtly different way when Bond is snooping around his hotel suite and him and Swann are given a tour around the lair by the bespectacled chap.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Love the Silver Wraith material. Newman's version of classic Bond coolness

[KK 3,307]

After having listened to the score in the context of the film, I've gotta say I prefer Newman's Skyfall. It complimented the action the better and there was more variation in tone. While more cohesive, Spectre feels monotonous and often bludgeoning.

That's not to say I still don't enjoy Snow Plane, Secret Room, Vauxhall Bridge, Donna Lucia, Madeleine, Los Muertos Vivos Estan and Silver Wraith and their reprisals--but it does come like a overlong footnote to Skyfall--which is good description of the film.

Agreed. SPECTRE I can enjoy for the way it extends some a lot of the musical cells from Skyfall. But the first Newman Bond score is just more diverse and original. It might be less cohesive, but it makes up for it with a lot more character. Skyfall oozes more Bond than SPECTRE does.

[crocodile 7,984]

Oh I don't know, KK. While watching the film it actually felt more traditionally Bondian than Skyfall.

I'm not saying this is obvious from listening to the album.

Karol

[Miz 139]

He's solid and his action writing is powerful, with a tight use of electronics. He captured every Bond he worked on better than Newman has so far.

He captured Brosnan's Bond yet not Craig's. Newman's tighter, leaner, less flowery sound fits his performance to a T.

Au contraire, Newman's sound is thin and unresponsive. Much of it is good as Newman music, though not all, and his broad sweeps through pulsating action music all of equal tempo sound like they can't quite match the kinetics hammering on screen in these movies.

Arnold nailed Casino Royale and QoS with action music that flew with differing momentums and flew very well without the 'Brosnan era' action music, characterised mostly by its 'thematic dependencies'. Arnold's last two sport a confident style that could stride into swagger when needed and paint locations provocatively; they show variety in most of his action, espionage and quieter passages; and they both feature smart and subtle theme-play rewarded with multiple full listens. And he definitely acted as the voice for Bond's evolution as a character in those films (for example, the emerging Bond theme at the end of CR - Fall of a House in Venice, but also many other tracks in QoS involving new riffs).

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Au contraire, Newman's sound is thin and unresponsive. Much of it is good as Newman music, though not all, and his broad sweeps through pulsating action music all of equal tempo sound like they can't quite match the kinetics hammering on screen in these movies.

Bond action music shouldn't match the kinetics on screen (a fool's errand), it should compliment it. As Barry demonstrated by stepping back with his slower pacing and deliberate writing, it allowed the sound effects and cutting to provide the energy and momentum, while the music offers a dialogue. Arnold/Dodd's orchestral histrionics overwhelmed the listened and overcrowded the mix, signposting every dramatic beat from a mile off.

"Music of it is good as Newman music, though not all" - I don't understand what you're saying here.

Arnold nailed Casino Royale and QoS with action music that flew with differing momentums and flew very well without the 'Brosnan era' action music, characterised mostly by its 'thematic dependencies'.

This reads like grandstanding waffle designed to sound clever but saying nothing much at all. 'Thematic dependencies?' All of Arnold's Bond scores were thematic--that's not what I've been addressing.

Fluid is not how I'd describe Casino Royale and QoS's action music. Every 8 bars or so a thematic idea or ostinato or broken up by these silly brass crescendos that accentuate something dangerous onscreen, and then the music proceeds by modulating up a minor third. It's like it's written to an instruction manual.

Arnold's last two sport a confident style that could stride into swagger when needed and paint locations provocatively; they show variety in most of his action, espionage and quieter passages; and they both feature smart and subtle theme-play rewarded with multiple full listens.

I'm not denning that QoS had its highlights in the more ambient stretches, and the action music was conciser than before. But even then, it's far too ADD than its needs to be. Listen to Target Terminated--some good thematic ideas following one after another, all undermined by an inability to focus and unnecessary counter-figures.

And he definitely acted as the voice for Bond's evolution as a character in those films (for example, the emerging Bond theme at the end of CR - Fall of a House in Venice, but also many other tracks in QoS involving new riffs).

The slow introduction of the Bond theme is a novel idea, but I'm talking about Arnold's sound. His harmonic rhythm (how long he sticks with a single chord), voicing (thick/thin/open/closed), sound design (sampling/synths/experimentation), his orchestral ensemble etc. Take the use of the Bond out of the frame and you'll find there's very little difference between Arnold's sound for Craig and Brosnan. Somewhat less florid (according to the John Burlingame book, Arnold asked Dodd to write less counter-lines), more avant-garde moments and token electric guitar power chords--but these are minor differences. With Newman, it's a whole different world.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Newman, in his own way, probably comes closer to matching the sensibilities of John Barry then any other composer who took a stab at the franchise.

Though Barry was the superior melodist of the two, obviously.

[Mr. Who 919]

I have seen the movie and I must say I love both the score and the film. Newman manages to build on what was great about Skyfall (which I liked very much) and develop it even further. The action music really works and in the cinema it's loud and brutal, like it should be. He also manages to write really beautiful quiet pieces of music for certain scenes which I won't spoil. All in all a great effort from Thomas Newman.

Btw, is it just me or does the ost have an extremely low volume?

[Jilal 569]

Finally saw the film yesterday evening, and I really have to say the score worked absolutely wonderfully in the film. There are some really gorgeous moments where the score perfectly complements the visuals - most notably moments of either sheer dissonance (I'm thinking of the Austria sequences) or splendid creativity (e.g. the wild synth flute in Tempus Fugit).

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Heads-up if you ordered this CD from Amazon, or were planning on it: for some reason, they never dropped below the list price (of $18.98) on this one, like they usually do. Even their Marketplace sellers have it new for way less than that. DeepDiscount even has it for $11.63. I politely emailed Amazon about it, and they they said even though it's not their policy to do so, they refunded me the difference between DeepDiscount's price and their own.

[Florian 4]

Barry was dead wrong in that statement, as he was when he recommended David Arnold to Barbara Broccoli, or when he dismissed his Bond scores as "Million-dollar Mickey Mouse music."

Just to chime in, if I may. Barry's comment about Mickey Mouse music was not meant in a derogatory way (even though Harry Saltzman took it that way). Jon Burlingame covers the incident in his rather excellent book.

Interesting that Coolman seems perfectly content to use Arnold's arrangement of the Bond theme rather then having a go at doing one himself

Or the Broccoli's just love it so much that they keep reusing it. It's like the new "James Bond Theme" for the 21st century; even all the promotional tie-in shows on TV and radio are using it. As someone said earlier, it was even tracked into the Breadcrumbs cue in Skyfall for a second or two, before crossfading into Newman's cue.

[Makeshift Python 22]

I believe those were new recordings by Newman, he simply used the Arnold's "The Names Bond... James Bond" arrangement and put in his own touches. You can tell it's different just by the guitar. It's either for Newman wanting to keep some consistency with the two Craig films or as you suggest Broccoli/Wilson simply like it enough to have Newman do new recordings of it.