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The Desolation of Smaug - Extended Edition Discussion


gkgyver

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I came out of the cinema having seen DoS unsatisfied, but there can be little doubt that the EE makes it a far more satisfying experience (and I would say a far better film). I was happy with all the new additions, the added parts involving Thrain and Beorn most of all. The introduction to Beorn is fantastic and never should have been omitted. I was thrilled to hear his 'Never heard of him' line, brilliantly delivered by Persbrandt. Even with small screen time Sher shows just what a magnificent actor he is as Thrain. Indeed, I was surprised how moving his 'healing' scene was, with McKellen equally great. And there's no new material with Legolas or Tauriel (yay!).

Yes, I'd have liked more: the deleted first scene between Thranduil and the Dwarves (more than ever it feels like something is missing here), and something in the ruins of Dale being the obvious examples. But you can't have everything. That said, I have one gripe. One thing I really wish they hadn't done:

Why in God's name did they give Thrain a ridiculous Wilhelm scream when he is sucked into the void? Just plain idiotic decision, and one I simply can't fathom. Sher makes Thrain a great character, and it's an emotional scene, and then it's undermined (I won't say ruined) by this stupid sound effect. This isn't some random background soldier. This is a key character. He doesn't deserve to be treated with such derision, as though his death is meaningless and almost comical. I don't get it. The last bit of new footage and it's tainted like this. What a shame.

What makes it all the more puzzling is that Sher's perfectly good scream can also be heard. Because I can't fathom the reasoning behind it I'm almost wondering if it's a mistake. There's a new scene involving a scuffle between the Dwarves and Braga's men when they arrive at Laketown, and one of the guards is given a Wilhelm scream. Was there some confusion with the sound guys and it resulted in a second being added where it shouldn't have been? Almost certainly not, I know. But I just can't think of a logical reason behind it

I don't want to dwell on that, but being the last new bit it does leave something of a bad taste. There's a lot of great new stuff here and it really improved the film for me. Definitely give it a chance but prepare yourself for that bit (perhaps others won't find it so jarring, I don't know). I would have no complaints with this EE otherwise.

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the deleted first scene between Thranduil and the Dwarves (more than ever it feels like something is missing here)

What's this now?

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It's not in the EE. I almost wonder at this point if stuff is being held back for the future big box set, since PJ mentioned toying with the idea of adding footage back to the LOTR films. After all, what better incentive for everyone to buy all the films again? Watching the film and seeing them thrown straight into the cells, with knowledge of this deleted scene...I feel as though it is needed. Plus there's some nice nods to the books in there (Balin's lines in particular).

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Oh hey, here are the EE film chapter titles. Some of these might make good track titles for a fan edit of the music


00:00:00.000 The Quest for Erebor
00:07:33.000 Wilderland
00:12:00.000 The Master Summons
00:12:59.000 A Commander of Legions
00:15:55.000 Queer Lodgings
00:20:56.000 Last of the Skin-changers
00:23:15.000 Where the Shadows lie
00:25:52.000 The Elven-gate
00:29:59.000 Mirkwood
00:38:14.000 Flies and Spiders
00:46:43.000 The Woodland Realm
00:49:46.000 The Elvenking
00:53:19.000 King and Captain
00:55:10.000 Feast of Starlight
00:58:07.000 Barrels Out of Bond
01:08:42.000 The High Fells
01:12:22.000 Bard the Bowman
01:15:45.000 The Nature of Evil
01:19:10.000 Smuggled Cargo
01:22:46.000 Lake-town
01:25:09.000 The Master of Lake-town
01:28:07.000 The World of Men
01:31:15.000 The Home of Bard
01:36:02.000 "It Is Our Fight"
01:37:35.000 The Prophecy
01:40:35.000 A Warm Welcome
01:45:16.000 The Parting of the Company
01:48:44.000 The Lonely Mountain
01:50:31.000 A Spell of Concealment
01:52:36.000 The Hidden Door
01:53:08.000 Son of Thror
01:59:16.000 On the Doorstep
02:07:11.000 Kingsfoil
02:07:39.000 The Courage of Hobbits
02:09:22.000 The Enemy Revealed
02:12:48.000 Inside Information
02:22:00.000 The Black Arrow
02:22:43.000 In the Dragon's Lair
02:23:17.000 Under Arrest
02:24:56.000 Bilbo the Burglar
02:26:45.000 Smaug the Magnificent
02:29:18.000 Orc Attack
02:33:12.000 Confrontations
02:34:57.000 Elvish Medicine
02:36:13.000 Hunter and Hunted
02:37:45.000 "She Walks in Starlight"
02:39:08.000 A Desperate Plan
02:41:39.000 Duel in Lake-town
02:44:06.000 The Forges Relit
02:51:16.000 Smaug the Golden
02:56:05.000 Credits

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There are some other moments as well. Other new Laketown bits and pieces. Also 'The Lonely Mountain' has some new footage just before they reach the outcrop overlooking Dale. I don't remember any new music there though I could be wrong.

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That introduction with Thranduil and the dwarves would have been not only in line with the novel but also more great interaction between the dwarves and the elves. Shame it is not in the film.

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I assumed from that YouTube clip that they were explaining why it was cut and put in the EE. I should have realised the green screen meant it was never finished. Shame, but at least we can see the scene.

Yeah and it might have not accomplished anything significant in PJs mind or forwarded the plot so it was cut.

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This may be old news but I have noticed during couple of last times I have watched DoS how they had a different performance or mix of the choir during the Halls of the Elvenking scenes, more prominent than on the OST.

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Which scenes are those?

The whole scene when the dwarven troop is marched before Thranduil and the discussion afterwards.

BB pointed that out here, Inky :)

Yeah, that is why I said it was perhaps old news.

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As I said before, IMO It's a great improvement, and a lot more satisfying. I enjoyed large parts of DoS before but I find it a far better film now. Even the Tauriel stuff is more tolerable now with all the Thrain, Mirkwood and Beorn stuff restored.

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I really like that extra choir, shame it was recorded too late to be on the OST

Yup. Shame indeed. I always felt the Woodland Realm theme needed more prominent choir.

I am glad to hear Antony Sher is making a strong impression with his performance. A fantastic actor indeed.

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I might check our the EE today, granted how much time I have...curious about it, but don't think it'll improve my impression of the film much.

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It's certainly possible for someone to hear the new music without sitting down to watch a 3 hour film on a tuesday night.

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I might check our the EE today, granted how much time I have...curious about it, but don't think it'll improve my impression of the film much.

Watching the theatrical edition felt like the EE. I can't imagine the EE being an improved experience.

My opinion overall is unlikely to change, that all 3 movies could be re-edited into one incredible 3 hour film.

I only wish we could've seen Del Toro's directorial effort.

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Well when I look at the iTunes page:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/hobbit-desolation-smaug-extended/id907987873

I see no indication that you get the special features too, it looks like you only get the movie itself.

However, I have been told that while you do in fact only get to download the movie, you can click on some other link, after purchase, to stream the special features.

I dunno if that's true or not. I certainly haven't seen anyone online discussing the new documentaries yet.

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OK, makes sense I guess.

It'd be cool to watch the special features early, but I can always wait till my BD arrives on the 4th.

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Alright, watched it. EE did not help unfortunately. In fact it did a better job of reminding me of the convoluted mess this film is.

Some notes:

- opening prologue is actually really good, they should have kept all of it in, doesn't sound as "exposition-like"....EXCEPT the horrid flashback. Absolutely dreadful. Firstly the CGI is bad, second, it's really weird being led to a quiet conversation and then thrown quickly into an "epic" green screen battle with cheesy narration and all. And this goes for all the flashbacks in this film, not a single one was any good!!

- on that point, once the pointless Nazgul tomb flashback came on, I noticed something....the moment Galadriel started narrating again, I had to ask myself "this must be the umpteenth time we've heard Blanchett's voice explain what's going on screen in an ominous way..." and I didn't seem to consciously mind until that point, where I just felt like it was too much, like the last straw on the camel's back. It hit me then why DOS and to an extent, AUJ felt so bland in comparison to its predecessors. PJ seems to have run out of tricks to tell the Tolkien story! He lazily relies on the same old mechanisms, as if there's an equation for it! Need some exposition? Insert flashback. Need to make it clearer to the audience? Insert Galadriel narration. And all this worked very well 10 years ago because they were novelties! But now, they look and sound more than a tad too familiar. See what I once mistook as constant references to LOTR is probably PJ's inability to find new ways to tell the Middle Earth story, relying on the same bag of tricks he used in LOTR because it worked!

- all the Beorn stuff should have been kept. No clue why it was cut. Improves the pace much more, and the comedy lightens the mood!

- another thing I noticed starting from when the company arrived to Mirkwood is the use of sound effects. In LOTR, the sound effects for the ring, and Sauron and other creepy things were very subtle but so very effective, blending in with the noise and the music, but still have a very potent effect on hype viewers. Here, they're just inserted there. Take for instance the Ring. In LOTR, it really did sound like the ring was calling out to Frodo. But in the conversation between bilbo and gandalf, there's just an obnoxious pulsating sound in the middle of nowhere, and if I hadn't watched LOTR for context clues, I would not have associated it with the ring! Similarly, the heart beat noises in the forest were very distracting from the effect of it all. And some of the stuff he does with the camera to give that sense of "disorientation" seems like something a teenager would do in a home movie he edited with iMovie or something...it all just seemed rather juvenile...in the end, I could have done without the extended Mirkwood scenes (some nice extra Mirkwood music though)

- as the film progressed, I liked Richard Armitdige less and less. Pice said it before, he's pretty one note. But Balin is great. Very human, very relatable. And Tauriel, sticks out like a sore thumb...but these are old arguments

- Forest River sequence. Forgot how kickass Bolg's theme is. But the start-and-stop nature of the music and sound effects loses the potency of it. This is another prime example of what I mean by PJ relying on his same old bag of tricks. Remember when PJ would create those chilling moments in LOTR where he silences everything for a line of dialogue, or a moment to settle in on the audience (ex. gandalf falling in Khazad dum)? Very effective, and done well. But he does that here to try and emulate the same effect, but waaaaay too many times in one scene!! He silences everything when Kilo gets shot, he does it again when Tauriel arrives, he does it again when Kili jumps into the barrel so Tauriel could react, he does it again when Thorin cuts the log for some supposedly "dramatic" moment....it was ridiculous!!! And it didn't help that none of these were moments were particularly ones we cared for. A large part of is also has to do with how the music was crafted AROUND those silences in LOTR, here, the editors just dialled it in and out to address the cue times that PJ prob gave them....

- argh....all these story lines....way too much going on, every five min there's some form of exposition going on to explain some dark crevasse of Tolkien history, or often PJ fan fiction. This is another big reason why DOS has attracted a much smaller audience than LOTR. Because the casual film goer really won't understand half the things being said in the movie!

- The Thrain bits were interesting, nice to have I suppose, but I can see why it was cut out. I don't remember spotting Thrains theme, but there is a lovely extension of the Erebor material from "On the Doorstep" played during his healing scene. Touching stuff. Good actor too. But ultimately, rather disposable.

- I liked the extra lake town bits.

- the Kili healing scene is another example of the whole "same old bag of tricks" argument. At first, I thought the dialogue was paying homage to The Aragorn/Arwen stuff, but really, it's just because they didn't have better dialogue to write. The whole scene seems so contrived that I still cringe watching it. And it's all because lines like "It was all a dream" has now become stock romantic language for the writers behind Middle-Earth. And it's a shame. Because what seemed like a great line in FOTR, is now tarnished here and made cheap....

- finally, there may not be any new Smaug scenes, but I was reminded of a lot of interesting Smaug music missing from album

Anyways, a lot of my rant was geared towards the film itself...not sure why, probably so that it can be used for reference when people accuse me for hating on the film for no reason or something. But yeah, there it is.

Not a lot of significant new Shore materials, but some nice pleasant moments I suppose.

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