The Desolation of Smaug - Extended Edition Discussion

[KK 3,307]

She's one of the weaker members of the cast. Behaves more like a hobbit than an elf.

And the Tauriel/Kili scenes still lack any plausibility whatsoever.

And even taking those scenes out don't account for the film's many other flaws.

[crocodile 8,000]

It's true, KK. But at least she's one of the few relatable and likeable characters in this thing. And at least there is some kind of motivation driving her. I never really quite got Thorin and his quest. In terms of emotional engagement, anyway. He's an arrogant twat. And still not sure what Bilbo is doing in this film.

Karol

[Barnald 365]

It's hard being a king you know? That's probably why Tranduil is an uptight bastard also.

[KK 3,307]

Yeah I totally get that croc. The whole Quest seems rather contrived...there never is any real point to it without getting into convoluted Tolkien fan-fiction.

I think if they had a better lead, they could have played more on the sentimental aspect of it. Of all the dwarves, Balin is the best character, and he brings out the finest moments of the company, the only relatable one of the bunch.

Another reason why I prefer AUJ. Bilbo has more of a purpose there, which means he gets more screen time, and we really got to see Martin freeman embody the character. The Gollum scene remains the highlight of the two films.

It's hard being a king you know? That's probably why Tranduil is an uptight bastard also.

I like Thranduil. Just felt his screen time wasn't handled well.

[crocodile 8,000]

Balin is indeed a very nice character. Literally, as well.

Karol

[Jay 37,348]

Agreed, Bilbo was the best character in AUJ. And I like the EE of AUJ because Bilbo is it in even more, in really good scenes that never should have been cut.

Bilbo was totally marginalized in DOS, and the EE doesn't add any new scenes that he's the focus of. Really hope he's in BOTFA a lot more.

[Faleel 5,346]

Bilbo was totally marginalized in DOS, and the EE doesn't add any new scenes of him apart from the Beorn intro.

And the Laketown vouching bit.

[Jay 37,348]

Wow you are fast. I edited my post right after I submitted.

[MedigoScan 324]

well at lest he gets some more 'send him in first' abuse in Mirkwood

[Incanus 5,714]

- argh....all these story lines....way too much going on, every five min there's some form of exposition going on to explain some dark crevasse of Tolkien history, or often PJ fan fiction. This is another big reason why DOS has attracted a much smaller audience than LOTR. Because the casual film goer really won't understand half the things being said in the movie!

One reviewer made a point of how distracting it was to watch how PJ divides the group and the story into too many threads and then we skip about cutting into these dark grey environments that vary very little from each other. I think he didn't mean they were difficult to follow or to delineate but overall a bit drab and without much variance or change of feel. Everything is just gloomy, grey and dark all the time. I found the pacing annoying in the TC and all that intercutting irrititating when PJ intentionally divided Thorin's company at Lake-Town, a completely unnecessary contrivance. Bard would have been enough as we could see the events through his eyes. We didn't need those 4 dwarves there to act as audience middle men.

Smaug was fine a creation but the way the film makers drag and drag the ending on is enfuriating, especially considering that Smaug, the great and powerful dragon, can't even singe on hair on the dwarves' beards through all the rigmarole. The way it is described in the novel is not a huge action packed sequence but rather puts Bilbo entirely to focus and builds great tension, offers an explanation to why Smaug goes on his rampage (he thinks he killed the dwarves in the collapsing cave as he brought down the mountainside, another cool scene this version didn't have) and obviates the ridiculous "dwarves battling the dragon" sequence, especially when Tolkien himself never ever considered that the dwarves could slay the dragon and puts this in the book several times. He did have drafts where Bilbo slays him but the dwarves never even tried it.

Plus there is too much Esgaroth politics in these films. The Master of the Lake-Town didn't need to be this prominent a character or have this much antagonism but PJ seems to want to write unnecessary obstacles for these movies and the world of men is usually a very dark place in his mindset. Lake-Town and Bree are gloomy to absurdity, oppressive and depressing rather than havens and moments of solace amidst the dangerous journey they are in the novels.

I still miss the sense of passage of time. It is completely lacking on this ride. I do not mean that they should spent a lot of time at different locations on the way but the way they never show the passage of time in any way. Mirkwood seems to be a day long stroll without much day or night to show us that it is taking more than this one day to get through. There is a hurry to get to the mountain for Durin's day but they never tell us how much time they have, all that is said is that they are almost late, generating a feel of hurry, which makes the journey seem 2 days long. But these are old gripes. I'll have to wait and see if the EE improves any of these qualms I have with DoS.

[gkgyver 1,645]

The additional Beorn scenes are fantastic! Especially the scene shortly before the company leaves Beorn shouldn't have been cut. Together with the music, it gives me chills.

While everyone applauds the expanded prologue, I find it unnecessary. Plus, like some already mentioned, the CGI there is awful. And the colour grading is the yellow RotK sheen times 10.

Btw, does the EE include the final BOFA trailer? Shouldn't that be out soon?

[KK 3,307]

I like the extended conversation between Gandalf and Thorin, that should have been kept in. But the flashback was awful, and unnecessary.

And those are all valid points Inky. Will respond in kind soon!

[Jay 37,348]

I watched the film tonight, but am too tired to post any clear thoughts.

One thing I can't believe no one has noticed except me is that they REMOVED the scene where after turning from a bear into a man, Beorn enters his barn and only Bilbo sees him! Hopefully it's an error in the iTunes version and will be there in the BD version!

[gkgyver 1,645]

I noticed.

They obviously removed it because it wouldn't make much sense to include a scene in which Beorn acts surprised and mad about all the visitors introduced to him, when seconds earlier, he is shown entering the house and seeing the dwarves sleeping on the floor.

[Jay 37,348]

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it that way.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I take that back.

Beorn is chasing the company INTO his house. So, unless he suffers from amnesia every time he transforms, he should know about them anyway.

[Faleel 5,346]

Unless he thought that they left after he did.

[KK 3,307]

I think he does have a bit of an "amnesia" thing between transformations.

[Jay 37,348]

I wonder if the commentary track explains it

[Incanus 5,714]

Perhaps it is just shoddy writing?

[Jay 37,348]

OK, as I mentioned I watched the EE film last night, so here are my thoughts on each new scene.

Extended prologue: It's just so much better this way! In the final theatrical cut, the prologue barely has a reason to exist, but not having it center around relaying information about Thrain AND giving a little background about how the quest came together makes it all worthwhile. Ignoring the fact that the film goes against Tolkien's version of the Battle of Moria timeline, characters, and consequences, for the film world setting up a mystery here about Thorin's missing father that pays off when Gandalf is in Dol Guldur works just fine. The business about Thror's ring was an interesting insert - wasn't there a bit added to the AUJ EE about the Sauron's rings as well? I have to assume they are building to some kind of payoff in TBOTFA.

Beorn introduction: Just love this! I LOVE the scene in the book, where Gandalf introduces the company 2 by 2 to Beorn when they first arrive. I was disappointed in the TC that PJ turned their arrival into yet another chase instead. BUT, having a similar yet kind of opposite intro scene now take place the next morning after that chase completely makes up for it - now we kinda get to have the best of both worlds. Love McKellen's performance here, especially his nervousness as he plays with his hair on the way to talk to Beorn! Good comedy and lighthearted nature here, something most welcome at this point in the film and trilogy. You know, I think of all the added scenes this is definitely the one that "feels" most like an EE scene - this simply never had a chance of being in the theatrical cut of the trilogy, let alone the duology.

Beorn/Gandalf conversation: Another very good addition. OK look: It's stupid that in these films, Sauron is an ACTUAL necromancer, IE one who can ACTUALLY raise the dead. No arguments from me about that. But since the filmmakers decided to go that route doesn't mean we have to hate this scene. I think it is a well designed and written scene. It sets up so many things: Why the company has to leave the ponies outside, Gandalf learning that Azog and the orcs are in league with the Necromancer, a second reason for Gandalf to go to the High Fells, and potential it's related to Sauron, and the idea that Sauron could be back. Gandalf refusing to believe it because Saruman would have told him is an interesting angle.

Gandalf warning about the Mirkwood river: Short, but a nice setup to what happens in the new Mirkwood scene

Extended travel through Mirkwood: Good stuff - doesn't feel like EE bloat at all, this is just a well edited and designed trek for the group to go through. If there's a problem with it, it's that Bombur seems to only fall into the river and then fall asleep, with the group being forced to carry him on a stretcher, just because that happened in the book. There isn't much a filmic reason or payoff for doing it at all in the film - it's kinda weird and unexplained. So while that's a bit of book-fanservice, everything else about this extended trek is cool, I dig it.

Longer Master/Alfrid intro: More Steven Fry as The Master cannot be a bad thing, and this isn't! I could have done without his disgusting eating, but I enjoy the set up here of Alfrid and The Master conspiring to create a law to setup a law to discredit Bard as well as ensure their continuing reign.

Bard leads the company through "the world of men": Liked this too. It's completely unclear to me why Braga shows up and suddenly has an interest in Bard - is it because of the decree Alfrid went off to write in the last new scene? I dunno, cause at the end he lets Bard go anyway. Regardless, the scene has a fun momentum, and has a cool brass version of the Lake-town theme and probably the fastest version yet of Bard's theme. Good comedy bit too with the line from Bard about Braga's wife. The scene may not have a real "point", but it helps expand the world, which is usually a good thing in my book.

Single shot of Alfrid: Dunno if anyone else noticed, but there's a single, brief shot of Alfrid listening to the commoners talk about the prophecy just before Bard starts reciting it.

Master and Alfrid discuss the prophecy: Having heard it talked about Alfrid tells The Master about it, who seems to like the idea that the promise of a kind returning with riches could bring hope to the commoners. A short but nice addition - it makes The Master's later WELCOME to Thorin make more sense.

Bilbo sticks up for Thorin: Another short but nice addition.

Master/Alfrid talk after the company departs: Nice speech from The Master about his win/win situation he put the Company's trek to Erebor in. I like that Bifur and Oin and Fili take Kili to The Master for help first before returning to Bard, and also the tag at the end where The Master says he has it in for Bard since he opposed him before sets up him wanting him in jail later.

Bilbo and Thorin talk to Bilbo at The Overlook: Another short but nice addition, reminding the viewer of how different the area is since Smaug arrived.

Gandalf entering Dol Guldur: OK, overall this scene is shorter than it's TC counterpart, but that's just because the TC combined this scene with the (intended) later scene of Gandalf casting his spell, while the original version here ends with Gandalf still exploring, and a closeup of a hand on a blade indicating someone is watching him. I liked that shot because I wasn't expecting it, and because it makes Dol Guldur feel bigger to cut away here as Gandalf is exploring and then cut back after the Keen Eyes scene.

Gandalf casts his spell and we see Azog - OK this is exactly the same in both versions, but in the TC it is shown as happening right after Gandalf's initial exploration. and after we see Azog we cut to the Keen Eyes scene. Here the spell scene is shown after the Keen Eyes scene, and leads right into this next scene:

Gandalf meets Thrain: Liked this a lot too. They somehow managed to make a scene where a tall wizard tussles with a short dwarf not be ridiculously silly. The bit about Sauron having the last of the 7 rings was interesting, really hope all this ring stuff pays off in TBOTFA. Loved that Thrain was so mad he sees vines and snakes that come alive. I also love that Thrain wouldn't have wanted Thorin to try to take back Erebor - seems like he knows something he's not telling! It's still confusing how and when Gandalf got the map and key from him...

Gandalf meets Sauron: LOL. I love how in the TC, since you can't have Azog waiting around a corner to smack Gandalf as he runs down a hallway with Thrain, they inserted audio of him casting another spell over what was footage of Gandalf just before he met Thrain, and then inserted a graphic of the spell revealing Azog here mid-smack. Checking out the digital wiping out of Thrain from his encounter with Sauron in the TC was kinda too, btw.

Anyway, back to this version of the scene: interesting line from Thrain spoken as him and Gandalf run just before meeting Azog - "They are in league - The Dragon and The One!" - sounds to me like this was dubbed in from another scene since you never see Thrain's face saying it here. The major addition here is Thrain telling Gandalf to tell Thorin that he loved him, and Gandalf's response "you will tell him yourself", meaning he was confident he'd get out of the jam he's in, only BAM, Thrain's dead and Gandalf is captured by Sauron. This was all good stuff, except for the awful Wilhelm scream they gave Thrain here. WHY PJ, WHY!?

Overall, removing Thrain entirely is to me kind of a strange way to shave really not that much minutes of the total running time in the end, but as PJ said removing Thrain entirely does remove some confusion general audiences might have. I still don't think keeping all the Thrain stuff in would have been a bad choice overall. Very glad it was restored now!

Overall, I loved the expansion of the Dol Guldur footage, it makes the place feel bigger and gives it a bigger purpose, since instead of only being about Gandalf proving Sauron is running it, it also now expands upon the mystery of his rings, and has us learn more about Thorin's lineage, which could also pay off in TBOTFA.

I also really loved the expansion of Lake-town, since it also makes that place feel bigger and more detailed, and we got more good scenes with Stephen Fry.

No cringe-worthy scenes added here at all, unlike AUJ, and no scenes that are really ones that you feel like didn't need to be added and they would have been better off leaving out still. Any ones that come close to that are so short they are over before you can think about it.

And as mentioned I really loved the expansion of Beorn's character, should make you root for him much more in TBOTFA now.

BTW, I'll write about the MUSIC in these new scenes tomorrow if I have time.

FOOTAGE FROM THE TC MISSING I NOTICED:

1. As I previously mentioned, the short scene in the TC where Beorn enters the barn, and only Bilbo sees him, is completely axed from the EE. Maybe it's because the new introduction scene would make less sense if he already knew how many people were in his barn, but he also did chase them all in as a bear, so who knows. I guess this is further reasoning why the intro scene was cut in the first place, it is kind of only book-fanservice once the chase scene was used instead. But still, in the short scene, it's not like he's ever seen noticing that Bilbo or any dwarves were in his barn at all, so maybe it's just an oversight this was dropped from the EE. Maybe the commentator explains it.

2. In the theatrical cut of the dinner scene with Beorn and the company, after Beorn says "a darkness lies upon that forest, fell things creep beneath those trees", a line from the deleted (now restored) Gandalf/Beorn conversation is put here - "there is an alliance between the orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur" is added over coverage shot of Gandalf listening, before returning to "I would not venture there except in great need". In the EE, since the Necromancer line now plays in the Gandalf/Beorn scene, the dinner scene is restored to it's original configuration without that line. Clearly PJ wanted to make sure the Necromancer/orc connection was made clear to Gandalf once the longer exposition scene was cut.

3. There's short scene in the TC of the Mirkwood sequence where Nori notices they've lost the path, and the camera pans over to show they are walking RIGHT next to it, but can't see it. Why would this have been cut from the EE!?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Watching the film again made me realise again how much better I like DoS compared to AUJ.

[Jay 37,348]

It feels more Middle-Earth-y.

You know what's I realized one day? AUJ is the only film of the six with NO MEN at all. It's got hobbits, dwarves, elves, goblins, trolls, istari... not not a single man! It really is the furthest away from LOTR as you can get.

[Faleel 5,346]

3. There's short scene in the TC of the Mirkwood sequence where Nori notices they've lost the path, and the camera pans over to show they are walking RIGHT next to it, but can't see it. Why would this have been cut from the EE!?

perhaps because they wander off of it more like in the book? it was replaced with Bilbo's line about not straying off of it.

You know what's I realized one day? AUJ is the only film of the six with NO MEN at all.

There are some in Dale in the prologue.

[Incanus 5,714]

It feels more Middle-Earth-y.

You know what's I realized one day? AUJ is the only film of the six with NO MEN at all. It's got hobbits, dwarves, elves, goblins, trolls, ishtari... not not a single man! It really is the furthest away from LOTR as you can get.

Istari! Not ishtari Jason!

And yeah the main cast does not feature men at all, but there are shots of Dale in the prologue.

The Seven Rings of the dwarves is an interesting plotpoint as it shows the way Sauron collected the last of the rings of power to him quite methodically. That was the reason Thrain was captured under the eaves of Mirkwood on his journey to Erebor in Tolkien's version. Only 3 of the dwarven rings still existed at the time and Thrain's ring was the last to be captured by Sauron as the other 4 were destroyed by dragons. I don't think there is much need for pay-off to the fact that Sauron has been collecting the original rings of power back to him, he is after all Lord of the Rings. And Sauron is not going to do much with the other rings himself as he has only use for the One. Just one more thing to hammer in the fact that Necromancer is Sauron which Gandalf soon discovers after meeting Thrain.

Sauron apparently always held the Nine Rings in the 3rd Age.

[KK 3,307]

It feels more Middle-Earth-y.

It does? It's the least Middle-Earth-Ye film of the five.

I agree that many of the additions were welcomed one, but all the added flashbacks were cringeworthy.

As I said before, seeing this film after so long again, really pointed out some the weaknesses and faults of PJ's approach to these films (wrote a long rant about it in the last page ).

And Incanus, bringing up the dwarves rings may have been an interesting plot point to bring up, but to what avail? They've dug into so many different Tolkien sub-plots (while twisting them around to their own vision of Middle-Earth), created many of their own sub-plots, and split up existing content into even more subplots. Doing Tolkien fans a service is one thing, but it seems like everything is being compiled together for the sake of it, and as a standalone fantasy film, it really falters. If this wasn't based on Tolkien's work, it'd be rather alienating, following all these random excerpts of exposition and mythology.

[Incanus 5,714]

It feels more Middle-Earth-y.

It does? It's the least Middle-Earth-Ye film of the five.

I agree that many of the additions were welcomed one, but all the added flashbacks were cringeworthy.

As I said before, seeing this film after so long again, really pointed out some the weaknesses and faults of PJ's approach to these films (wrote a long rant about it in the last page ).

And Incanus, bringing up the dwarves rings may have been an interesting plot point to bring up, but to what avail? They've dug into so many different Tolkien sub-plots (while twisting them around to their own vision of Middle-Earth), created many of their own sub-plots, and split up existing content into even more subplots. Doing Tolkien fans a service is one thing, but it seems like everything is being compiled together for the sake of it, and as a standalone fantasy film, it really falters. If this wasn't based on Tolkien's work, it'd be rather alienating, following all these random excerpts of exposition and mythology.

True. The Rings of Power is a minor plot thread and a nice nod to the whole idea but as I said I am convinced it is not going to have a major pay-off and as such is rather a small detail added to the larger sprawling canvas, which of course may not be of interest to anyone outside the hardcore Tolkienites.

[KK 3,307]

Knowing PJ though, he will find a way to tie that little detail into the third film, and bridge the two trilogies via the Prophecy or something.

Who knows, maybe we'll find more rings of power in Smaug's plunder!

[Incanus 5,714]

The battle is lost KK. Let us join the optimism pervading these threads!

Everything is awesome!

[Faleel 5,346]

On a more positive note, Tom Shippey (?) is in the EE extras!

[Incanus 5,714]

Awesome! Perhaps they'll bring back the awesome Tolkien documentaries from LotR EEs.

[Faleel 5,346]

This is how I found out:

http://my.tv.sohu.com/us/214653578/75485932.shtml

Interesting explanation of the Stag thing.

[Incanus 5,714]

It would make a bit more sense if they referenced it later on when they arrive to the Halls of the Elvenking. Would have made a nicer cause and effect than mere "it's bad luck".

[BloodBoal 7,538]

The battle is lost KK. Let us join the optimism pervading these threads!

Everything is awesome!

[Incanus 5,714]

Tru dat BBoal. Tru dat.

[Barnald 365]

Jay - Thorin says that Thrain went to see Gandalf BEFORE the battle of Azanulbizar, so he must have given him the map and key then. I'd love to have seen this scene added at the start of the film, before Gandalf and Thorin's talk at Bree.

[Incanus 5,714]

Jay - Thorin says that Thrain went to see Gandalf BEFORE the battle of Azanulbizar, so he must have given him the map and key then. I'd love to have seen this scene added at the start of the film, before Gandalf and Thorin's talk at Bree.

Ah makes sense. Awesome!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

To be fair, it makes more sense than Thrain still having these objects in his possession in Dol Guldur after all those years. Are we to believe his torturers did not notice these, or merely let him keep them? Did he hide them? And if so, where?

I can only think of one place. The map is one thing, but that key? Ouch.

[Incanus 5,714]

Yeah doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Unawesome!

[Jay 37,348]

3. There's short scene in the TC of the Mirkwood sequence where Nori notices they've lost the path, and the camera pans over to show they are walking RIGHT next to it, but can't see it. Why would this have been cut from the EE!?

perhaps because they wander off of it more like in the book? it was replaced with Bilbo's line about not straying off of it.

Hmmm, OK. I'd have to watch both versions again but maybe you're right.

http://my.tv.sohu.com/us/214653578/75485932.shtml

Interesting explanation of the Stag thing.

OK thanks for that, I had no freaking clue what the stag was all about when I watched the film!

Jay - Thorin says that Thrain went to see Gandalf BEFORE the battle of Azanulbizar, so he must have given him the map and key then. I'd love to have seen this scene added at the start of the film, before Gandalf and Thorin's talk at Bree.

OMG - you're right! Even in the theatrical cut, in the prologue Thorin says "My father came to see you before he went missing. What did you say to him?"

In the EE, that was changed to ""I know my father came to see you before the Battle of Moria. What did you say to him?"

So that must be when Thrain gave Gandalf the map and key. Odd that exchange hasn't been shown.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Extended prologue: It's just so much better this way! In the final theatrical cut, the prologue barely has a reason to exist, but not having it center around relaying information about Thrain AND giving a little background about how the quest came together makes it all worthwhile. Ignoring the fact that the film goes against Tolkien's version of the Battle of Moria timeline, characters, and consequences, for the film world setting up a mystery here about Thorin's missing father that pays off when Gandalf is in Dol Guldur works just fine. The business about Thror's ring was an interesting insert - wasn't there a bit added to the AUJ EE about the Sauron's rings as well? I have to assume they are building to some kind of payoff in TBOTFA.

The expansions give the scene a better reason for even being there, but it also adds even more exposition to an already talky opening for the film. Also, the flashbacks have a sort of hazy effect at it's edges which makes them look cheesy. Like a dream scene in an old TV show. Very badly done indeed.

Beorn introduction: Just love this! I LOVE the scene in the book, where Gandalf introduces the company 2 by 2 to Beorn when they first arrive. I was disappointed in the TC that PJ turned their arrival into yet another chase instead. BUT, having a similar yet kind of opposite intro scene now take place the next morning after that chase completely makes up for it - now we kinda get to have the best of both worlds. Love McKellen's performance here, especially his nervousness as he plays with his hair on the way to talk to Beorn! Good comedy and lighthearted nature here, something most welcome at this point in the film and trilogy. You know, I think of all the added scenes this is definitely the one that "feels" most like an EE scene - this simply never had a chance of being in the theatrical cut of the trilogy, let alone the duology.

This is a nice scene in the book, but it really doesnt work very well in the film. It simply doesnt have the whimsical nature that it needed.

It also doesnt make a lot of sense. Why didnt Beorn see the Dwarrow in the night?

I could have done without this one. I reminds me of AUJ padding like the endless stone giants scene.

Beorn/Gandalf conversation: Another very good addition. OK look: It's stupid that in these films, Sauron is an ACTUAL necromancer, IE one who can ACTUALLY raise the dead. No arguments from me about that. But since the filmmakers decided to go that route doesn't mean we have to hate this scene. I think it is a well designed and written scene. It sets up so many things: Why the company has to leave the ponies outside, Gandalf learning that Azog and the orcs are in league with the Necromancer, a second reason for Gandalf to go to the High Fells, and potential it's related to Sauron, and the idea that Sauron could be back. Gandalf refusing to believe it because Saruman would have told him is an interesting angle.

I agree that this solidifies Gandalfs reason for leaving the company.

I dont see whats so wrong about the necromancer being able to restore people to live. Thats actually what the term means. I always wondered why Tolkien never adressed this.

Extended travel through Mirkwood: Good stuff - doesn't feel like EE bloat at all, this is just a well edited and designed trek for the group to go through. If there's a problem with it, it's that Bombur seems to only fall into the river and then fall asleep, with the group being forced to carry him on a stretcher, just because that happened in the book. There isn't much a filmic reason or payoff for doing it at all in the film - it's kinda weird and unexplained. So while that's a bit of book-fanservice, everything else about this extended trek is cool, I dig it.

This is all good stuff. The Mirkwood scene was one of the best in the film, but it did feel a bit rushed.

Master/Alfrid talk after the company departs: Nice speech from The Master about his win/win situation he put the Company's trek to Erebor in. I like that Bifur and Oin and Fili take Kili to The Master for help first before returning to Bard, and also the tag at the end where The Master says he has it in for Bard since he opposed him before sets up him wanting him in jail later.

PJ could not resist a little in-joke here.

"Your popularity has never been so high. The entire town twittering your name"

Stephen Fry is ofcourse one of the most famous and prodigious Twitter users.

Gandalf meets Thrain: Liked this a lot too. They somehow managed to make a scene where a tall wizard tussles with a short dwarf not be ridiculously silly. The bit about Sauron having the last of the 7 rings was interesting, really hope all this ring stuff pays off in TBOTFA. Loved that Thrain was so mad he sees vines and snakes that come alive. I also love that Thrain wouldn't have wanted Thorin to try to take back Erebor - seems like he knows something he's not telling! It's still confusing how and when Gandalf got the map and key from him...

I liked this, though I wonder what the pay off of all these added plot threads will be.

Certainly it was good to actually see Gandalf interacting with another character.

Overall the DoS EE offers a lot more interesting extra stuff then the AUJ did. Solving a few issues, and for the moment not yet creating any others.

I was dissapointed to see that almost none of the added materials featured Bilbo much.

This film is called The Hobbit, but with all the added stuff from other Tolkien sources, invented concepts and characters from PJ and his writers it's central character has really lost it's importannce throughout much of the film. Something they tried to remedy by making him the one who finds the hidden door etc.

Despite it's bloat, and the overly long action scenes this is actually simply a good film, which has been gang raped into the ground by entitled Tolkien fanboys.

It has real heart and soul.

Good looking film too. Like the previous 4 it doesnt look realistic (I must be one of the few that thinks even FOTR looked "fantasy" like because of the color grading.

The CGI is omnipresent, but for the most part well realized. There are a handfull of shots that dont work, but the vast majority do. And Smaug looks fantastic.

[Jay 37,348]

Yea I forgot point out how bad the Battle of Moria flashbacks looked. I dunno why they couldn't make those look better.

I enjoy watching the film every time too. They assembled a great cast and had best intentions at heart, I think. There's still no doubt to me that two zippier films would be much better than the bloated three we are getting, but there is still so much to enjoy. And the last chapter promises to have a lot of potentially really great moments.

[Incanus 5,714]

I love how Stefan has become the martyr of The Hobbit film lovers and likes to wear his crown of thorns like a badge of honor and moralize our criticism. It has become as tired as our entitled whining.

Interesting to note that even Lord Stefan did not wholeheartedly approve the EE of Desolation.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

When in less then 2 months time I go to the cinema and watch TBOFA, I go in the hope of enjoying the film. Which is something you cannot say. You have long made up your mind about it, as have KK and Alvar.

[crocodile 8,000]

I'll say this. The Desolation of Smaug, both film and score, I enjoyed more than the first one. It doesn't mean the film is GOOD. But there was more to it than I expected. Who knows? Maybe this trend will carry over to the new film? Tolkien-based or not.

Karol

[Jay 37,348]

I'm more excited to go to that film in the theater than I was for DOS, for sure.

I'm expecting to have a good time. I will probably go more than once, to see it in 2D and 3D HFR. For some reason I was too busy to see DOS theatrically more than once.

[Incanus 5,714]

When in less then 2 months time I go to the cinema and watch TBOFA, I go in the hope of enjoying the film. Which is something you cannot say. You have long made up your mind about it, as have KK and Alvar.

I am sure I'll enjoy some elements of the film but I also have to say these are not the films I was expecting based on the LotR production. Still I can say I enjoy both of the previous films even with their flaws, not just as readily as I do the LotR trilogy, which had its own troubles but the pros outweighed the cons. Not so much here. I think the adaptation just got too creative for its own good.

[publicist 4,643]

It didn't got too creative, the little book just never deserved to be a living cadaver of LOTR leftovers.

[Incanus 5,714]

Well you can discuss the merits of trying to tie the Hobbit with Lord of the Rings films but in the process of doing that they really made a pretty mess of things that convoluted the simple linear adventure story into a multi plot thread epic it never actually was. Some explanations might have been necessary for e.g. why Gandalf leaves the company midway through the story but in the end the creative bits about his running around do not accomplish much storywise. Hence the creativity being too creative. In inventing new things they had to actually explain more and more things that did not originate from Tolkien's works at all.