.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,363]

Has PJ announced what his next film is yet?

I wonder if it will be any good.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,363]

Didn't he want to go make a small indie film in NZ?

[Barnald 365]

On the back of his hermit-like existence over the past year and how bad he looked last December I'd say these films took a lot out of PJ, and he's probably still recovering. Indeed, given his condition at the start (with the stomach ulcer), I'm not sure if he was in the right state to undertake such a gruelling project. That, combined with a real lack of pre-production time, couldn't have helped things.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,363]

Ha!

[Barnald 365]

I'm hoping for Braindead 2: The Return of Lionel (none of that Dead Alive nonsense)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

King Kong 2.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[MedigoScan 324]

Worst movie of the year?

How can that be, when Transformers 4 exists?

That said, I am still glad the movies exist rather than not

overall

[Jay 37,363]

I never saw that movie.

And yea, you're right, its not the worst of the year. Its just more disappointing than a film I was expecting to be back (like I would of transformers) because hte LOTR tril was so good.... but the man who made those (especially Fellowship) doesn't exist anymore, and even with the best cast and composer in tow, he couldn't direct and edit a good film out of his raw materials, unfortunately.

Ii think I'll drink beer while watching the film tonight...

[MedigoScan 324]

I suppose saying it was the worst movie you saw that year would be more probable

I too miss early PJ, studio exec-resistant PJ at that

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,363]

I don't... what?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,363]

Overall? Yes, they failed at being good movies. They failed at being worthy followups to the LOTR trilogy. They failed at making me want to follow Peter Jackson's career. They failed at making me want to see the future of 48FPS or 3D films.

They excelled at acting - wow, what a great cast. They excelled at scoring - Howard Shore did great!

Not much else.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,363]

They didn't really make THAT much money:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=lordoftherings.htm

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,363]

They didn't make as much as the original trilogy, something I'm sure WB was counting on.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,363]

Well I was wrong - I'm not the only one here. There are five others


What I'm going to do now is 'live blog" the EE cut. I'm actually going to start my phone's timer when the film starts, and use that in front of each post. That way we'll know exactly how long it is too, to end that controversy


So this is a SPOILER WARNING now!


Don't read my posts made in the next three hours if you don't want to read details about the new footage!




SPOILERS!







SPOILERS!!!!

0:6:00 first new footage was a few shots of Bard running on rooftops, I think ? Not sure. Very short if it was new.

0:11:44 well Smaugs dead, and I'm not sure ther was any new footage at all in the prologue! No destruction of the windlance, no scene with Bard hanging from rooftops seen in the trailers... WTF?

Hmm, after Smaug dies there was a bit about the crows returning to the mountain, was that new?

[KK 3,307]

The crow/raven thing was in the original I believe.

[Jay 37,363]

0:17:30 Bard asks where the Master is, someone says halfway down the Anduin, not sure if that's new.


Nothing new with any of the initial Erebor stuff, I don't think.


0:24:16 conversation between Bard and Alfrid about the gold in the mountain could be new? Then Legolas tells Bard what he fears may come for it. I'm realizing now I really don't know this movie well

0:26:15 Legolas tells Tauriel about how Bolg has the Mark of Gundabad... I guess that can't be new


0:28:00 Same reused AUJ footage of Radagast used.

Oh! New line by the orc who takes Gandalf out of his cage: "the ring of fire! Where are the others?" Then he gets ready to cut Gandalf's hand off, before Galadriel shows up and stops kills the orc.

Now it makes more sense why Sauron starts quoting the ring poem!


0:36:49 Dol Guldur sequence is over. No new footage during it all, I don't think, except maybe at the end, Saruman might have a few more lines.

After it though, a cool new scene with Gandalf and Radagast! He gives Gandalf his staff, saying he'll need it more than he will. Scenes ends with a funny line by Raddy. Very nice addition.


The acorn scene is still one of the best scenes, with great acting by both parties.

Wasn't there speculation some scenes were moved around in this area? Well in this version, it goes from acorn scene to Bard and co first arriving at Dale, and there might be some new lines where Alfrid mentions dwarves being alive inside with the gold, then the dwarves fortify the gate with stone


Still no Gandalf theme for his riding scene


60:49 first new scene in a long while. Bilbo and Bofur have a conversation on top of the wall as he tries to escape. I think the music was tracked. The scene breaks up the existing cue that used the burglar theme.


Thranduil accuses Bilbo of stealing his dungeon keys, hilarious response from Bilbo.


67:15 elves draw their bows, then Thranduil motions and they withdraw. I remember something about a shot of elves and arrows in a trailer that wasn't in the film, not sure if that was it.


71:19.Thranduil suggests Bard could sell the arkenstone, not sure if that's new.

[Faleel 5,348]

Well the Arkenstone? You mean wield?

[Jay 37,363]

82:20 Wow! Dains intro was way longer, with lots more closeups and a bunch of new dialogue. Then a whole dwarves vs elves battle happens, with the elves firing arrows at then and them responding with spinny things that break them all up. Then they unleash their rams, and a hand to hand battle starts .

Then the were worms break through, etc, and then Azog calls for his war beasts ( giant trolls), then the elves respond with chariots. Lots of great new stuff all in here.

Some new footage of the giant trolls just massacreing dwarves.

98:00 after Thorins charge there's a bunch of cool new shots, a trolls catapult backfiring, and Bofor and kili and Bombur fighting trolls, then Bofur gets on top and controls one!

105:00 Wow, the chariot sequence was amazing!.I'm not kidding! The best action scene in the film! It's long and elaborate and well staged !

Alfrids death is kinda dumb! Radagasts warning about his staff pays off

[Faleel 5,348]

What is Alfrid's death? Is it as gross as crumbs predicted?

[Jay 37,363]

113:45 Tauriel and Thranduil have a showdown and discussion about love in the middle of the battle I don't remember.

Bifur loses his axe in a very funny scene!

Bifur and Bofur both speak!

125:40 Legolas v Bolg had a bit where Legolas stabs Bolg in the hand that might have been new

128:48 Radagast and Beorns entrance is identical to before

Oh! Then after Azog falls in the water, it cuts back and there's a little more of Beorn fighting. Like 5 seconds more.

God the final Thranduil / Legolas and then Thranduil / Tauriel scenes are God awful. Completely terrible.

Then the Bilbo / Gandalf scene is great!

144:00 thorin's "funeral" / Dains coronation is the same scene, and is quite short with only 2 lines of dialogue. Impressive choral cue from Shore, though.

And I think that's the last new scene. There was certainly no extension to Bilbo and Gandalfs journey.

151:00 end credits have started.

[Faleel 5,348]

Are you staying through the credits?

[Jay 37,363]

Yes.

There's a tribute to Andrew Lesnie at the end

163:45 is the total length of the film.


Going home now, will add more details of the stuff I had to gloss over before later.

[Incanus 5,714]

Thanks for the thoughts Jay!

There were quite a few moments you mention that were in the Theatrical cut though. I guess you have not seen that too many times.

[KK 3,307]

Thanks for the thoughts Jay!

There were quite a few moments you mention that were in the Theatrical cut though. I guess you have not seen that too many times.

One viewing alone is more than enough for a lifetime, thank you very much!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sigh, only at JWfan!

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

It's a valid opinion.

[Jay 37,363]

OK, I compiled a list of the DEFINITE NEW SCENES:

1. DOL GOLDUR

The start of Dol Goldur sequence is different. in the TC, after "Spells will not save you old man", it cuts to a close-up of Galadriel's ring, and we see her approach intercut with the orc throwing Gandalf down, and then she just kinda kills him after a weird reaction shot. In the EE, he takes Gandalf out of the cage first, sees the ring on his hand and says (in subtitles) "the ring of fire! Where are the others?". After that closeup of Gandalf's hand, it cuts to that closeup of Galadriel's hand, and then her approach is intercut with the orc getting ready to cut off Gandal's hand. So she kills the orc to save him from that. So then Sauron saying the ring poem kinda makes more sense.

2. GANDALF AND RADAGAST

After the Dol Goldur sequence, there's more dialogue between Gandalf and Radagast. After "You must summon our friends, bird and beast", instead of cutting to the outside of Erebor over Gandalf's line "the battle for the mountain is about to begin", we stay with Gandalf and Radagast for this exchange:

R: Wait! Take this. If what you say is true, then you will need it more than I.

G: Thank you.

R: A word of warning, it... can be a big dicky sometimes, you just have to twiddle with the top. I suppose you'll manage.

Basically, he gives Gandalf the staff he has in FOTR. It's a really nice scene. It's scored with a oboe statement of Gandalf's theme, not sure if new or tracked.

3. BILBO AND BOFUR

Before Bilbo sneaks out of Erebor with the arkenstone, he's stopped by Bofur and they have a conversation. I missed the beginning, but the second half is:

Bo: It is indeed. No one could blame a soul for wishing themselves elsewhere. Must be near midnight. Bombur's got the next watch... it will take a bit to wake him.

Bi: Bofur... I will see you in the morning.

Bo: Goodbye Bilbo.

A transcription doesn't do it justice, its a really nice scene. Scored by a quiet statement of the shire theme, probably tracked.

4. DAIN'S INTRO, DWARVES VS ELVES

Dain's first appearance on the hillside is slightly extended, I think. But the big stuff comes a few moments later! After the lines "If he chooses to stand between me and my kin, I'll split his pretty head open! See if he's still smirking then!", the TC cuts to Thranduil saying "He's clearly mad, like his cousin", then to Dain, who says "You hear that lads? We're on!", and then the two armies prepare to face each other, but then everyone looks up as the wereworms breakthrough the ground. The EE is totally different! Thranduil's line is totally gone, and after the "smirking" line, it goes like this:

G: Dain, wait!

T: Let them advance, see how far they get!

D: You think I give a dead dog for your threats, you pointy eared princess? Hear that, lads? We're on! Let's give these bastards a good hammering!

?: Stand your men down, I'll deal with Ironfoot and his rabble.

D: Right then, let's get this done! Send in the goats!

The rams then charge down the hill through the dwarves. Thranduil orders his elves to fire on the dwarves, which they do, but the dwarves retaliate with projectiles of their own that spin in the air and destroy all of the dwarves arrows.

D: How do you like that, the old twiddly-widdlies! Haha, the old buggers.

Then there's a whole bunch of fighting, hand to hand combat, between the elves and the dwarves. This gone on until everyone notices the were worms break though after a bunch of fighting.

Once the were worms show up, a bunch of shots are altered / different to accommodate the fact that the dwarves and elves were just fighting.

5. WAR BEASTS

After Azog says "Send in the war beasts", the TC cuts to a shot of Gandalf for a while, then to Thranduil on his horse giving orders.... then it cuts to Azog saying "They cannot fight on two fronts, now we make our move".

Well the EE instead, after "Send in the war beasts" actually shows the war beast in question - giant trolls that begin attacking the dwarves and elves - before showing Thranduil, and then after the Thranduil shot there's a whole bunch of fighting shown before finally getting to the "two fronts" line. The actual attack on Dale is the same, I think.

Later there is a spot where more War Beasts are shown squishing dwarves, I think.

6. THE COMPANY'S CHARGE

After Thorin leads the company out of the battlefield (after he cues his dragon sickness), there's a whole bunch of great new fighting shots, as we actually get to see our main characters do a bunch of stuff. There's a funny bit where Bofur and Bifur and Bombor (I think that's who it was) throw and axe back and forth they each use. And there's a whole bit where Bofur gets on top of a giant troll (the one with peg legs) and is able to control it! It was really funny.

7. THE CHARIOT SCENE

So, after the rally, when Thorin and Dain meet on the battlefield, after Thorin says "I'm gonna kill that piece of filth", the TC instantly cuts to Dwalin saying "Lead on!" from the back of a ram, and we see a bunch of the copmany on dwarves smash through some orcs and we cut to Gandalf saying "We may yet survive this!". Well, this is where the chariot scene was supposed to go! It was a great scene, and the best action sequence of the film by far (TE Or EE). I can't believe it was cut! It would be a scene that moviegoers would have been talking about after the movie had it been left in. Oh well.

T: I'm gonna kill that piece of filth

D: Thorin, you cannot do this. You're our king!

T: That is why I must do it

D: And how do you plan to fight your way single-handed to Ravenhill?

And then the chariot pulls up! It's led by rams, and Balin and others are on it.

Balin: It's been a while since I've done this!

D: I like it! May Durin save you all!

And the chariot takes off as they plow through orcs. Dwalin (I think?) is in charge of the arrow launcher on the back, he is shooting arrows at orcs and trolls. Also, one of hte giant orcs sees the chariot and pursues it, smashing through the ice behind them! Then Bofus shows up on that orc he took control of earlier, and battles with the troll! The chase gets crazy! Towards the end, there's this exchange:

D: There's more coming! We're pulling too much weight, we won't make it!

B: Cut the (??). Ride them to Ravenhill!

D: No, Balin!

B: My (?) days are over. Durin be with you!

Then a bunch of wargs show up and chase them too! The rams separate from the chariot, and Balin in the chariot comes to a stop

Balin: I am too old for this!

He has just enough arrows to kill the wargs. Meanwhile, the rest of the dwarves are on the rams, now untethered to the chariot, and finally we get the shot of Dwalin saying "Lead on!" as the company finally reaches Ravenhill. Phew! What a scene.

8. THE END OF ALFRID

So there's a bit in Dale where Gandalf is cornered by a troll, and tries to cast a spell with his staff to kill the troll, but it doesn't work! Paying off the setup when Radagast gave him the staff. But meanwhile, Alfrid had been thrown on top of a catapult, and coins are slowly falling out of his clothes. When a big one lands on the launch lever, it shoots him right into the troll's mouth, (somehow) killing them both. It was a goofy scene.

9. BIFUR'S AXE

After the Thranduil/Tauriel / Legolas showdown, it cuts to Bifor, Bofur, and Bombur on the battlefield. Bifur head-butts an orc, and their heads get stuck together because of the axe! Bofur and Bofur show up and try to pull him away, the orc ends up falling over a cliff but is still attached to Bifur! Bombur jumps down, pulling on the orc, until he's separated and falls away!

Bof: By Durin! You've lost your axe!

Bom: No he's not! There you go cousin!

Bif: You know where he can stick that!

10. BEORN

There's one more 5 second shot of Beorn fighting. That's it.

11. THORIN'S FUNERAL / DAIN'S CORONATION

This begins right after the diagetic playing of the Erebor theme on the giant horns, before the shot of Bilbo and Balin exiting Erebor.

Basically, it shows a room inside Erebor where Thorin, Kili, and Fili are on slabs. The rest of the company walk around each giving their respects. There is single shot that shows that Radagast, Gandalf, and Beorn were there.

The king is dead. Long life the king!

And there's single shot of Dain in his kingly attire.

The whole scene runs 1 minute and 40 seconds.

And that's it. I mean, I'm sure I missed SOME STUFF, but those are the biggies. Anything else I mentioned before was probably all in the TC

All the new stuff was very good, and a worthy addition that made the film better... except for Alfrid's Death, which was dumb. So many characters get a major shaft, and there's still a bunch of unresolved stuff from before that still isn't resolved in the EE, and PJ seems to just want to end the film as soon as he can after the battle's over, which is all a shame. And there's probably plenty of footage he could have put back in, but didn't. I think he's just tired from Middle Earth. Maybe we'll get super extended cuts in 20 years after he's gone off and made 3 or 4 unrelated films

Anyway, there's no doubt this is the superior cut of the film! Certain things make more sense. Some quiet moments are good character builders. The staging of the battle makes more sense as the various aspects and their positioning is explained better with more shots. And there's some really great battle scenes and the great chariot sequence that I can't believe were ever cut!

Now, can anyone link me to a summary of footage that had already turned up, so I can say what still isn't in the film?

[Incanus 5,714]

So it looks like a lion's share of the EE scenes are extensions of the action sequences of which about 60 % sound kind of dumb to me. I shudder at the thought of that peg leg troll fight sequence where a dwarf is directoring one. PJ has had the habit of concocting superbly ridiculous action sequences for these films with far too much tongue-in-cheek (pick almost any major action scene) which lessens the already non-existent sense of danger. They are in essence giant rollercoaster rides where no one (except the hapless CGI baddies) gets hurt. If the director obviously set out to make a darker more serious Hobbit films then he should have stuck with that premise to the end.

Nice to see the ring story thread even minimally makes more sense now and Gandalf gets his FotR staff from Radagast (even if only to have it be a comical effect when it doesn't work). And of course the funeral scene as short as it may be.

Did Orcrist and Arkenstone make appearances in that scene Jay?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Yes Jay, was there any new action music?!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[MedigoScan 324]

I am happy to get more dwarf scenes at least

but little more Beorn (even if his inclusion in Dol Guldur wouldnt work well I think) and nothing at all new with Smaug makes me a sad boy

still, this will probably be the version of the movie I end up buying

[Incanus 5,714]

Yes of course, for the documentaries!

[MedigoScan 324]

Its saying something though when for once even I was feeling like not buying the TE version

(and I own the TE for ROTK both on DVD and VHS!)

[Barnald 365]

So some paltry extensions to Dol Guldur, hardly any more Beorn, no Thrain, no farewell and 'Return Journey' extensions, no real closure for Bard or Thranduil. Sigh. I imagine another 10 minutes could have covered pretty much all of that - 20 was never going to cut it, let's face it. There's stuff I'm surprised made it - the Bofur, Bifur and Bombur moments, the Bofur and Bilbo exchange. Though I look forward to the battle stuff, I can't actually believe the Dwarves and Elves kill one another. I know it's been said before, but with that addition I now subscribe to the notion that PJ has lost his mind. I genuinely can't believe he took it that far. Stupid. And why is that fucking shot of Radagast from AUJ still in? I know the film couldn't be saved, only patched up. However, I expected it to be patched up a little more than this.

You know I wouldn't mind, but things were said. Initially we were told it would be 30 minutes by PJ no less. Boyens told a Swedish newspaper that there was some great stuff with Mikael Persbrandt in the extended cut, suggesting more of the actor (more of the bear would be a start). Then in that Empire podcast Boyens hinted at significant Dol Guldur extensions (more than this surely), and a scene between Bilbo and Dain. Then there is all the cool stuff we know about from the Chronicles books, like the Palantir, Gandalf saving Bilbo, and Bilbo planting the acorn. Of course stuff comes from the actors - Armitage mentioning a scene he had with Antony Sher (Thrain), McTavish talking about how we'd see what Dwalin got up to on the Ravenhill, the Dwarf actors talking about singing at the funeral and extended farewells - but when it comes from the filmmakers you expect it to be included.

Christ knows what happened. The treatment of Beorn in these films was scandalous, and frankly unforgivable. That above everything else is something I just can't get past.

Our only hope now is that there are extended extended editions prepped for a future box set (more material for fan salvage jobs), but that will never happen.

[crumbs 14,315]

Alfrid was meant to end up in another orifice, hence the R rating. Guess even Jackson can be pulled into line by the studio system.

And seriously, they didn't even include Gandalf's dialogue about seeing Thrain at Dol Goldur?! They left in Thorin's bloody reaction shot! WTF Jackson!

Clearly missing lots of footage we know exists. Obviously saving it up for the inevitable triple-dip. Really disappointing.

[Barnald 365]

The moment Thrain was essentially omitted from the theatrical cuts, you knew he wasn't important. And then once they gave him the Wilhelm scream, you knew they really didn't give a fuck about him.

[Incanus 5,714]

So some paltry extensions to Dol Guldur, hardly any more Beorn, no Thrain, no farewell and 'Return Journey' extensions, no real closure for Bard or Thranduil. Sigh. I imagine another 10 minutes could have covered pretty much all of that - 20 was never going to cut it, let's face it. There's stuff I'm surprised made it - the Bofur, Bifur and Bombur moments, the Bofur and Bilbo exchange. Though I look forward to the battle stuff, I can't actually believe the Dwarves and Elves kill one another. I know it's been said before, but with that addition I now subscribe to the notion that PJ has lost his mind. I genuinely can't believe he took it that far. Stupid. And why is that fucking shot of Radagast from AUJ still in? I know the film couldn't be saved, only patched up. However, I expected it to be patched up a little more than this.

You know I wouldn't mind, but things were said. Initially we were told it would be 30 minutes by PJ no less. Boyens told a Swedish newspaper that there was some great stuff with Mikael Persbrandt in the extended cut, suggesting more of the actor (more of the bear would be a start). Then in that Empire podcast Boyens hinted at significant Dol Guldur extensions (more than this surely), and a scene between Bilbo and Dain. Then there is all the cool stuff we know about from the Chronicles books, like the Palantir, Gandalf saving Bilbo, and Bilbo planting the acorn. Of course stuff comes from the actors - Armitage mentioning a scene he had with Antony Sher (Thrain), McTavish talking about how we'd see what Dwalin got up to on the Ravenhill, the Dwarf actors talking about singing at the funeral and extended farewells - but when it comes from the filmmakers you expect it to be included.

Christ knows what happened. The treatment of Beorn in these films was scandalous, and frankly unforgivable. That above everything else is something I just can't get past.

Our only hope now is that there are extended extended editions prepped for a future box set (more material for fan salvage jobs), but that will never happen.

Yes, I can feel you anger! Good. Good. Come to the dark side Barny! You know it in your heart to be true, the Hobbit trilogy failed us! PJ failed us!

On the positive side there will be those hours and hours of documentaries where they tell you in detail how they screwed the Tolkien fans over!

[crumbs 14,315]

It's all quite sad really. Jackson made a conscious decision to deviate strongly from the source material, instantly alienating Tolkien fans. I think people would understand this decision if he'd at least created 3 cohesive movies that stand on their own with strong character arcs and satisfying payoffs.

Unfortunately, we ended up with a mess of films with little narrative cohesion, no payoff for countless invented plot points, and thinly drawn characters that are an insult to Tolkien's writings.

[Incanus 5,714]

As I said before, the more Jackson and cohorts invented new stuff beyond the novel, the deeper the hole they were in grew. And in that hole in the ground there now live Peter Jackson, Philippa Boyens and Fran Walsh.

They completely failed in adapting the Appendices material into something worthwhile as they tore those parts of dwarven history to tatters with these films.