.

[Incanus 5,714]

But "Never Do Anything" should not be your life motto BB.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Does that protect you from others or others from you? Or vice-versa?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,012]

BloodBoal was on Team Evangeline. He can't talk about the film.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,363]

So BB what are your thoughts, then?

[Barnald 365]

He's probably gone completely insane by this point

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,363]

I still think the EE is better than the TC, but lets be honest its a severely flawed film in any form

[crocodile 8,012]

It was better. But not in a way that the extra footage made The Desolation of Smaug better. Now, in that case additional material actually made it feel like a whole. To some extent, of course.

Karol

[gkgyver 1,645]

So, I borrowed the EE for a few days (still can't bring myself to buy it), and watched the extras, all 10 hours of it.

I can't believe they went through TEN hours of extras without so much as hearing the name Howard Shore. As if he wasn't even on the team. Pathetic.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,363]

That guy who used to score these films before Conrad Pope took over

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,363]

Yes!

[gkgyver 1,645]

I hear he was Pope's ghost writer.

So BB what are your thoughts, then?

Didn't care for it. 95% of the addition were pointless, and actually made the battle even more confusing and choppier, in my opinion (seriously can't understand people saying it makes it flow better).

I only really liked the Bofur/Bilbo scene (and maybe the skirmish between the Dwarves and Elves, but even then, it felt a bit pointless). The funeral/coronation scene was a fucking travesty: less than 2 minutes long, with just the Dwarves looking sad, "Long live the King", and a 2-second shot of Dain? Seriously? OK...

I think I actually preferred the theatrical cut.

I have to agree. The additional battle scenes with the dwarves are awful, and the additional music edits going along with it are vomit-inducing. I think even AUJ added better material.

[Barnald 365]

The music edits are bad, there's no question about it. Having that last bit of Beorn and Eagles material play out with no music is a pretty astonishing decision.

[Incanus 5,714]

The music edits are bad, there's no question about it. Having that last bit of Beorn and Eagles material play out with no music is a pretty astonishing decision.

Classic PJ&Pope collaboration.

[gkgyver 1,645]

The music edits are bad, there's no question about it. Having that last bit of Beorn and Eagles material play out with no music is a pretty astonishing decision.

Not only that. The additional battle scenes are not scored as well, and they're presented like animation demos. It's horrid. Jackson honestly didn't give a shit anymore.

The funeral is a travesty as well. Utterly pointless. And no troll hoard as well. If this is indeed the BOFA film that Jackson always wanted, it's clear he put Tolkien's version aside in favor of his twisted mind.

[Incanus 5,714]

The music edits are bad, there's no question about it. Having that last bit of Beorn and Eagles material play out with no music is a pretty astonishing decision.

If this is indeed the BOFA film that Jackson always wanted, it's clear he put Tolkien's version aside in favor of his twisted mind.

Isn't this the thing we have been crying havoc over for 3 years now. I know I have.

[gkgyver 1,645]

The extended editions for the previous films added some nice things, also from the book, that they knew people wanted more of, like moments between Elrond and Bilbo, or Gandalf introducing the company to Beorn.

This, however, adds nothing but silly CGI extravaganzas.

[Incanus 5,714]

The extended editions for the previous films added some nice things, also from the book, that they knew people wanted more of, like moments between Elrond and Bilbo, or Gandalf introducing the company to Beorn.

This, however, adds nothing but silly CGI extravaganzas.

Yeah it adds so little of genuine content. It is all PJs action gags. And they even went and cut the funeral scene with Gandalf's eulogy short, which was a highlight that was shown in the documentaries. PJ pretty much dropped the ball with the final film altogether.

[crocodile 8,012]

You know what they should do now? Shoot the battles for Lothlorine, Rivendell, Erebor and Mirkwood and insert them into The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

You're joking, but they are actually TORN members who seriously said PJ should do that! Well, not shot the whole battles, but a few shots.

I was really satisfied with the concept drawings done for the BotFA appendices to illustrate those battles. But that is enough. No new shots of any battle from Middle-earth PJ! Pretty please!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,012]

You're joking, but they are actually TORN members who seriously said PJ should do that! Well, not shot the whole battles, but a few shots.

I was really satisfied with the concept drawings done for the DVD to illustrate those battles. But that is enough. No new shots of any battle from Middle-earth PJ! Pretty please!

More! More! More!

(It is also a great opportunity to drop, loop, replace some of the score)

Karol

[Incanus 5,714]

You're joking, but they are actually TORN members who seriously said PJ should do that! Well, not shot the whole battles, but a few shots.

I was really satisfied with the concept drawings done for the DVD to illustrate those battles.

Never noticed those. Where are they?

There are some concept pictures shown when they discuss the events that take place after the events of the Hobbit (I can't remember exactly what part of the documentary it was) and mention the battles that took place during the War of the Ring where Dáin and Brand fought at the gates of Erebor. I think they really want to drive home how important it was to portray the Battle of the Five Armies as this pivotal event and of great strategic value and they use these later battles as example of what would have happened if Erebor had not been won by the men, elves and dwarves.

[crocodile 8,012]

They talk about them in the section devoted to places and characters. At the end of each chapter.

I'm still not over this "Russian salt mines" comment. Disgraceful!

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,012]

I've still got 90 minutes to go. It's a long haul... 10 hours!

Karol

[Incanus 5,714]

Oh, you guys are referring to the BOFA appendices? Didn't finish those yet, so that explains it.

I thought you were maybe talking about the ROTK EE.

Yeah BotFa appendices.

[Barnald 365]

I'd be more than down with seeing the last stand of Brand and Dain briefly, though I don't see where it would possibly fit. Those concept drawings looked great. Plus the Easterlings would finally have their moment!

To be honest, what does it matter if he does add/change things? This isn't a Star Wars situation where we don't have the original cuts.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,012]

I've still got 90 minutes to go. It's a long haul... 10 hours!

 

I'm halfway through them (Part 12 is now over). Pretty emotional. Like for the previous two films, this is much more engaging and interesting than the actual film. That's quite ironic.

Indeed.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

Don't say you wouldn't buy them all! If he did that with The Hobbit, you might still be revising your videos in 50 years time! 'Missing footage' cards begone!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

I've still got 90 minutes to go. It's a long haul... 10 hours!

I'm halfway through them (Part 12 is now over). Pretty emotional. Like for the previous two films, this is much more engaging and interesting than the actual film. That's quite ironic.

Indeed.

Karol

Very true. I just said to a friend who was over to watch these documentaries (yes there are a couple of us Finnish loonies who love this behind-the-scenes stuff) that these documentaries really are so extensive it feels you have been on a creative journey with the team in their trials, triumphs and tribulations and shared this experience in small part with them. You don't often get this with any other behind-the-scenes documentary stuff, which of course is mostly shorter andon a more general level anyway, so there is actually a kind of connection with the creative team. So it actually can be quite emotional to see it all come to an end.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

I wouldn't have to change anything if it's newly shot footage!

That's what I'm referring to here. If they were to release a new version of LOTR with more deleted scenes that were shot at the time they shot the films, I'd buy it for sure BUT even then I'd rather have them presented separately in a bonus section.

This is true. I'd love to get cleaned-up deleted scenes with the effects completed, but that seems a pipe dream unless they're restored to the film.

To be fair, I think if Jackson did add footage to LOTR, by and large it would be previously filmed deleted material, the exceptions being the battles in the north you mentioned, as it would make sense to film them with cast members from The Hobbit. But what do you do for consistency sake? Shoot these moments on film? Would they not stick out like a sore thumb? It's surely more trouble than it's worth, so I think in unlikely. I'd love to see more prologue (Gil-Galad), the Moria Orcs pursuing the Fellowship into Lothlorien, and moments from TTT and ROTK. But there's some stuff I think could have the potential to really harm the film if restored, like Eowyn in the Glittering Caves. I didn't mind her taking out one or two Uruk-Hai, but from that BTS footage it looks like she takes on a small army, which struck me as too much in every sense.

A moment between Bilbo and old Gloin in Rivendell where we get information about what happened to the company and others could, in principle, be a lovely scene. Yet it doesn't seem viable. Hambleton wouldn't be a problem, but Bilbo obviously would. There's no way they thought far ahead enough to do something like this. Sure it would only require two actors so logistically it's doable, but it would be very jarring to see scenes inserted in FOTR with Hobbit-era Holm, clearly older, more frail, looking and sounding quite different. So this is one I think we can dismiss.

I've still got 90 minutes to go. It's a long haul... 10 hours!

I'm halfway through them (Part 12 is now over). Pretty emotional. Like for the previous two films, this is much more engaging and interesting than the actual film. That's quite ironic.

Indeed.

Karol

Very true. I just said to a friend who was over to watch these documentaries (yes there are a couple of us Finnish loonies who love this behind-the-scenes stuff) that these documentaries really are so extensive it feels you have been on a creative journey with the team in their trials, triumphs and tribulations and shared this experience in small part with them. You don't often get this with any other behind-the-scenes documentary stuff, which of course is mostly shorter andon a more general level anyway, so there is actually a kind of connection with the creative team. So it actually can be quite emotional to see it all come to an end.

I gotta say...the bit where you see Christopher Lee talking about Saruman being the role he is most proud of (or something like that) and him saying "I'm a good man" (talking about Saruman, but you can see what they were getting at), while the part of 'On the Doorstep' where they enter Erebor plays... manly tears were shed!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

Eowyn in the Glittering Caves. I didn't mind her taking out one or two Uruk-Hai, but from that BTS footage it looks like she takes on a small army, which struck me as too much in every sense.

Tauriel before her time!

A moment between Bilbo and old Gloin in Rivendell where we get information about what happened to the company and others could, in principle, be a lovely scene. Yet it doesn't seem viable. Hambleton wouldn't be a problem, but Bilbo obviously would. There's no way they thought far ahead enough to do something like this. Sure it would only require two actors so logistically it's doable, but it would be very jarring to see scenes inserted in FOTR with Hobbit-era Holm, clearly older, more frail, looking and sounding quite different. So this is one I think we can dismiss.

What's your position regarding the "PJ should replace ian Holm with Martin Freeman in the FOTR prologue!" debate, by the way? Don't remember...

I would permit that, as I suppose it makes sense. I think it's inevitable to be honest, just like Gollum amendments (I actually think I like the design of FOTR Gollum more from what I've seen of him, so I'll miss that glimpse in Moria).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

It's definitely an idea that works better in theory than practice. It would be interesting if PJ didn't just insert something from The Hobbit, but shot something slightly different on film. Could he have had that kind of foresight? It's possible, given that it was one of the first things they shot IIRC, so more thought might have gone into it.

[Incanus 5,714]

Let the movies stand as they are without that kind of Lucas-like tampering. After all they are product of the time when they were made in. Shoehorning in new footage from another trilogy or possibly shooting new things to insert into a 15 year old movie feels a bit redundant. Accept the way they were made, with the chronology being in reverse and let them stand on their own.

Btw PJ and Philippa muse on the commentary track of BotFA whether someone might redo the LotR and Hobbit movies in the future and PJ makes a wish it could be in the next 15 or 20 years or so, so he could enjoy them.

[Barnald 365]

I still think we'll see more movies set in PJ's Middle-earth before we see any new adaptations (or rather reboots). They're probably hoping Christopher Tolkien passes (touch wood he has a good time longer left yet, but you know how cynical these Hollywood studios can be) so they can wrangle the rights to further material. In ten years time I imagine they might begin to think about rebooting the whole thing.

[Incanus 5,714]

I wonder how a reboot would feel without John Howe and Alan Lee and their visual Tolkienian brilliance.

[BloodBoal 7,538]