Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'm sure Williams can deadlift better than Izzy Mandelbaum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx99 1,740 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 We have confirmation from a reliable source he conducted that trailer music.Top... men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Maybe Williams was busy doing other things while Ross conducted... Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The "adapted by" credit for Ross was deserved on COS, yeah? That score frequently straight-up quotes the first Potter, but they're totally different renditions that are altered to fit the film. He was nice about it in that interview, but we know the score enough to know that he was full of shit. It's like Williams didn't have the time or care enough on that one and just ended up handing Ross the score for the first film and telling him, "Just adapt this for whatever Columbus shits out at you." The blatant reuse of music in COS was the precursor to the random quotes in ROTS and KOTCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Well, to be fair Williams "reused" music a long time ago , like "superstructure chase" in RotJ and some of Home Alone 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 True, Home Alone 2 is the originator of this disturbing practice. The reuse of music in ROTJ never bothered me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Superstructure chase has always bothered me, as much as the Raiders quotes in KotCSEven the final Sail Barge Assault kind of bothers me Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's Go time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 World's Greatest Dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You think you're better than me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.anschutz 43 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I always joke with my dad when Home Alone 2 is on TV (he likes that one; I don't) that Williams approached the score the same way the filmmakers approached the rest of the film - simply reuse almost everything from the first one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Well, to be fair Williams "reused" music a long time ago , like "superstructure chase" in RotJ and some of Home Alone 2Interestingly, the worse "offenders" of reused music were for Chris Columbus' sequel films. Although, "Home Alone 2" has a good portion of original material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I reckon the Home Alone 2 score is an improvement over the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Bigger, faster, Meaner, Louder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The "adapted by" credit for Ross was deserved on COS, yeah? That score frequently straight-up quotes the first Potter, but they're totally different renditions that are altered to fit the film. He was nice about it in that interview, but we know the score enough to know that he was full of shit. It's like Williams didn't have the time or care enough on that one and just ended up handing Ross the score for the first film and telling him, "Just adapt this for whatever Columbus shits out at you." The blatant reuse of music in COS was the precursor to the random quotes in ROTS and KOTCS.There are many that claim JW wrote everything.Despite the fact that the official report states Williams wrote about 40 minutes of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Like the official report that states that Oswald worked alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 He was a crack shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The "adapted by" credit for Ross was deserved on COS, yeah? That score frequently straight-up quotes the first Potter, but they're totally different renditions that are altered to fit the film. He was nice about it in that interview, but we know the score enough to know that he was full of shit. It's like Williams didn't have the time or care enough on that one and just ended up handing Ross the score for the first film and telling him, "Just adapt this for whatever Columbus shits out at you." The blatant reuse of music in COS was the precursor to the random quotes in ROTS and KOTCS.There are many that claim JW wrote everything.Despite the fact that the official report states Williams wrote about 40 minutes of music.I find it amazing that 15 years later you still 100% trust an early "official" press release as the absolute truth regarding the final score, despite all the evidence to the contrary .Even if you don't count the re-recorded stuff, there's alot more than 40 minutes of totally new music that could only have been written by JW (like the quidditch music, the Lucius Malfoy scenes) Bilbo and Once 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 So what do you claim was written by Ross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Personally I think he just conductedSince the "40 minutes" doesn't hold up anyway you look at it , by logic the whole press release is falseOr you can think Williams Ross can perfectly imitate JW with new cues including the music that sounds like some cues in AotC.In that case he'd be a genius and could technically replace JW on Episode 7 since he could write Star Wars music Once and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 How do you explain the credit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Somekind of obligation or just JW being nice (not going back on his initial word)It's a contradictory credit anyways, inside the c.d.(under the track list) it says ALL MUSIC COMPOSED by John Williams, not 80% or whatever Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Pity there is no way you can substantiate your suspicions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Your just using bad logic to close the argument, like someone would do in a religious debate . You take it that the press release is the absolute truth and nothing will ever change your mind anywaysWe've been through this so many times anyways Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I've never discussed religion.Your source is the leaked sheet music right? How reliable is that though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think it was determined that the sheet music proves it (according to others since I know nothing about sheet music) but William Ross doesn't have the talent to compose anything in the caliber of JW and mimic his exact style, period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Oh we are back to the age old HPCOS debate again. Comfy, cozy JWFan nostalgia. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Can anyone more technical than me explain the proof then? Wasn't the sheet music all credited to JW confirming the "subjective" evidence? What else do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I remain unconvinced. Parts of that score don't sound quite right IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Neither does Home Alone 2, RotS or KotCS when the re-hashed stuff is tacked on (like the weird transitions in the End Credits of RotS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I don't have any problem with Home Alone 2 since everything was newly recorded. It's the tracking from other scores that bother me sometimes, especially AOTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The reports back then stated matter-of-fact that Williams indeed did more but so late in the process that it seems implausible that he actually composed a whole new score. Pragmatically speaking that probably means all music that is only HP I music and fitted for the new scenes is, in large part, probably by Ross whereas exclusively new stuff, say featuring Chamber theme and the Fawkes or Spiders stuff is probably from Williams pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,979 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I always assumed that pieces like Prologue: Book II and the Escape from the Dursleys, Cornish Pixies, Introducing Colin, Reunion of Friends (and Quidditch match sequence) must have been done by Ross. You know, the "Ken Thorne" stuff.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 "All music composed by john williams" means that Ross did not really composed new themes of his own.If he wrote some cues, he did so adapting existing williams music (like ken thorne in supes 2, as croc mentioned). Or he was in the podium to help them fit the leght of the images.Basically superman 2 is all composed by john, even if he did not write a sole note on paper for that score propper. in COS he did more, he created new themes and composed some setpieces, and probably chose which cues to be re-recorded to fit some scenes. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Ross adapted existing music (HP1) to fit certain new scenes. Everything else is Williams (including whatever bits and pieces certain members here have less affection for). Bilbo and karelm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What's your source, Marcus, if I may ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Common sense? It all sounds Williams. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Neither does Home Alone 2, RotS or KotCS when the re-hashed stuff is tacked on (like the weird transitions in the End Credits of RotS)Williams just isn't good at quoting himself anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What's your source, Marcus, if I may ask?The manuscript score, (as orchestrated by Pope and Karam), as well as Williams' sketches. There's not a single cue that credits Ross as composer, but there are plenty of instances where sections from HP1 are reused verbatim, and my guess is Ross was involved in adapting these to fit new scenes where intended. Hence the "Music Adapted and Conducted by" credit (rather than "Additional Music by"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,903 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What's your source, Marcus, if I may ask?The manuscript score, (as orchestrated by Pope and Karam), as well as Williams' sketches. There's not a single cue that credits Ross as composer, but there are plenty of instances where sections from HP1 are reused verbatim, and my guess is Ross was involved in adapting these to fit new scenes where intended. Hence the "Music Adapted and Conducted by" credit (rather than "Additional Music by")....which is what Ross has said repeatedly. I think the evidence to the contrary boils down to Steef's subjective feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Wrong. I have states many a time what Marcus claims. But have been shot down for it.Even by Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 One person posted here, he supposedly was an assistant to mr Ross, and said that Ross had made some of the arrangements (the great finale, for example). He said Ross wrote all of the score (i think he was being ambiguos in purpose, Ross could have written the whole score, - as a copyst- without composing a single bit of it...Ross adapted existing music (HP1) to fit certain new scenes. Everything else is Williams (including whatever bits and pieces certain members here have less affection for).the point is Everything is williams. because he composed the HP1 music.Speeding, slowing or deleting/extending a few bars does not count as composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 So finally people are changing their tune! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The Errol motif (which is barely in this score anyway) has always sounded to me like someone imitating Williams, specifically Hedwig's Theme. I'm sure the intent was to do a kind of send-up of Hedwig's, though. Right? Other "original" material famously rips off the AOTC score from the same year. Much of the score rips off Harry Potter 1 itself and the renditions here are basically slower, presumably to pad out this film's length, but lacking the typical exuberance of Williams music--the original versions are clearly superior. I still enjoy it, but at the same time, it feels like that scene in Toy Story where Woody is trying to convince the toys that Buzz is with him in the window and the pig is like, "Something's screwy here!"Here's a quick, easy example I'll always cite from this score: Harry Chases the Snitch (or the ending of Quidditch year 2). This cue is damned sloppy. Not what you would expect from Williams, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The Errol motif is simply Williams having a bit of fun creating a variation of Hedwig's theme.Again, all the music in HP2 is by Williams, regardless of whether you like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 So anyone care to speculate why JW is using Ross rather then Conrad Pope?The Errol motif is simply Williams having a bit of fun creating a variation of Hedwig's theme.Again, all the music in HP2 is by Williams, regardless of whether you like it or not.But Ross did adapt music right? He didn't just conduct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What's your source, Marcus, if I may ask?The manuscript score, (as orchestrated by Pope and Karam), as well as Williams' sketches.There's not a single cue that credits Ross as composer, but there are plenty of instances where sections from HP1 are reused verbatim, and my guess is Ross was involved in adapting these to fit new scenes where intended. Hence the "Music Adapted and Conducted by" credit (rather than "Additional Music by").Still, that's only an assumption. We can't just assume Ross adapted music from the first installment of the series when the manuscript scores don't at all mention his involvement.If the album states Ross adapted music (i.e. Ross either followed Williams's guidelines in synchronizing music from the first installment with the second, or performed the synchronization himself) and if that's a fact, why wouldn't that be mentioned on the manuscript scores in the form of a Music Adapted by credit? In that particular case, there's no reason at all not to mention his contributions. Adapting isn't a job to underestimate.The fact that we have the manuscript sketch of the Prologue, adapted from HP1, clearly penciled by Williams himself makes one frown alone. We know there have been instances where Williams didn't work chronologically, so whether Ross was brought in late in the game or not is irrelevant. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,287 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 No doubt Williams felt threatened when Pope replaced Shore on the Hobbit. He doesn't want Pope stealing Star Wars too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Its possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What's your source, Marcus, if I may ask?The manuscript score, (as orchestrated by Pope and Karam), as well as Williams' sketches.There's not a single cue that credits Ross as composer, but there are plenty of instances where sections from HP1 are reused verbatim, and my guess is Ross was involved in adapting these to fit new scenes where intended. Hence the "Music Adapted and Conducted by" credit (rather than "Additional Music by"). Still, that's only an assumption. We can't just assume Ross adapted music from the first installment of the series when the manuscript scores don't at all mention his involvement.If the album states Ross adapted music (i.e. Ross either followed Williams's guidelines in synchronizing music from the first installment with the second, or performed the synchronization himself) and if that's a fact, why wouldn't that be mentioned on the manuscript scores in the form of a Music Adapted by credit? In that particular case, there's no reason at all not to mention his contributions. Adapting isn't a job to underestimate.The fact that we have the manuscript sketch of the Prologue, adapted from HP1, clearly penciled by Williams himself makes one frown alone. We know there have been instances where Williams didn't work chronologically, so whether Ross was brought in late in the game or not is irrelevant.By adaptation, I mean to simply reuse, and only stretch the timings a little bit to synchronize with the on screen action.This is a matter of music performance, not music composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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