Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 This page has been updated.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Tucano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 It seems like he was just riding out the inevitable, trying to keep it level as he lost altitude. I guess pilots don't prepare for events such as these with parachutes, etc?Actually, it sounds more to me like something catastrophic happened just a minute (or even only a few seconds) before the crash. He was steady at about 500 agl at each sighting, including a few moments before impact. The engine sounded normal. There were no erratic actions. I doubt there was much warning before everything went wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornerIsTheMan 4 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 It seems like he was just riding out the inevitable, trying to keep it level as he lost altitude. I guess pilots don't prepare for events such as these with parachutes, etc? Actually, it sounds more to me like something catastrophic happened just a minute (or even only a few seconds) before the crash. He was steady at about 500 agl at each sighting, including a few moments before impact. The engine sounded normal. There were no erratic actions. I doubt there was much warning before everything went wrong.I don't know a thing about flying, but isn't 500 agl extremely low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 For a small private plane in the wilderness? I also don't know a thing about flying, but for me that sounds reasonable.http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part91-119-FAR.shtml© Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Yeah. People often fly single-engine aircraft at low altitudes in low-population areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 My thoughts on reading this is the radar is just indicating he was practicing acrobatics. But too low. Yes, under 1,000 is very low. You need 500 feet minimum of clearance from obstacles (such as radio towers, buildings, etc.) and in a high performance plane such as this (it tops out around 350 mph) that feels low. From this preliminary report, I presume their was nothing wrong with the plane. If the plane crashed and burned during an attempt to land it (so the pilot was making a recovery attempt) the crash would have looked different and eyewitnesses would have said it appeared as if the pilot was struggling/wrestling it to the ground. The debris field is all contained within a rather small footprint with a crater indicating the plane impacted at a high speed and sharp angle. If it broke up in the air (or suffered an airframe failure) the debris would have been spread out more. What is a possibility is he was either incapacitated or unconscious at the time of the crash. For example, the 2011 Reno crash where the P-51 mustang crashed into the crowd with a similar impact pattern but much more kinetic energy (that plane was modified to fly 500 mph and it might have exceeded that speed just before the crash). That pilot was almost certainly unconscious having just flown a 17-G pull up. The time of consciousness in 17 G's is 1 second so on that crash and with lots of forensic and photographic/video evidence they concluded the cause of the crash was the 71 year old pilot became unconscious for those brief seconds immediately before that crash. (A contributing factor, though not the cause of that crash was the extensive racing modifications of the airplane that resulted in the trim tab falling off during the turn). I think what we'll eventually find is the plane either performed a maneuver too low to the ground and impacted at a high speed/sharp angle or the pilot was unconscious (pulled up too fast and suffered a blackout for example) but at 500 to 750 feet agl, that leaves no recovery time. It could take a year or two for the investigation to be completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Oooof.Too dangerous of a hobby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Agreed - flying and especially modified high performance acrobatic flying is very dangerous with extremely little margin for error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I'd love to get a Private Pilot Licence and be able to fly across Australia. But it's really expensive to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 My thoughts on reading this is the radar is just indicating he was practicing acrobatics. But too low. Yes, under 1,000 is very low. You need 500 feet minimum of clearance from obstacles (such as radio towers, buildings, etc.) and in a high performance plane such as this (it tops out around 350 mph) that feels low. From this preliminary report, I presume their was nothing wrong with the plane. If the plane crashed and burned during an attempt to land it (so the pilot was making a recovery attempt) the crash would have looked different and eyewitnesses would have said it appeared as if the pilot was struggling/wrestling it to the ground. The debris field is all contained within a rather small footprint with a crater indicating the plane impacted at a high speed and sharp angle. If it broke up in the air (or suffered an airframe failure) the debris would have been spread out more. What is a possibility is he was either incapacitated or unconscious at the time of the crash. For example, the 2011 Reno crash where the P-51 mustang crashed into the crowd with a similar impact pattern but much more kinetic energy (that plane was modified to fly 500 mph and it might have exceeded that speed just before the crash). That pilot was almost certainly unconscious having just flown a 17-G pull up. The time of consciousness in 17 G's is 1 second so on that crash and with lots of forensic and photographic/video evidence they concluded the cause of the crash was the 71 year old pilot became unconscious for those brief seconds immediately before that crash. (A contributing factor, though not the cause of that crash was the extensive racing modifications of the airplane that resulted in the trim tab falling off during the turn). I think what we'll eventually find is the plane either performed a maneuver too low to the ground and impacted at a high speed/sharp angle or the pilot was unconscious (pulled up too fast and suffered a blackout for example) but at 500 to 750 feet agl, that leaves no recovery time. It could take a year or two for the investigation to be completed. Thanks for your take on it. That does seem plausible. And frankly less awful than some alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 It never actually occurred to me until I read karelm's post that he may have been unconscious. All eye-witness accounts leading up to just the final couple of minutes seem to indicate that the plan was running smoothly. Then just....gone.At least it seemed to be over quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Agreed - flying and especially modified high performance acrobatic flying is very dangerous with extremely little margin for error. You have to think that, given his relationship with the Flying Horsemen, that he loved not just flying but the idea of those daredevil acrobatics. I'm sure they showed him the how-tos on some of their tricks, and it isn't hard to believe he was prone to a little experimentation in his spare time. But he wasn't a full-time stunt pilot, and he probably wasn't as capable as he might have thought he was. Terrible to have it end like this, but as everyone's been saying, he was doing what he loved. I won't be the one to blame him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I love his Flying Horsemen music. I like that he merged his two biggest passions together. karelm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Horner really captured the free spirit of flight especially well in his music. The passion ran very deep and it touched something in him he believed in. I'm glad no one else was injured but I have a feeling this was just a second or two between everything is fine and possible unconscious crash. That is not very uncommon for those on the edge. I agree that taming the wild is part of the pull it has on some people. It isn't very different from those who climb Everest and have to pass dead bodies from decades ago along the way. Attempting to conquer something so formidable is part of the allure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I love his Flying Horsemen music. I like that he merged his two biggest passions together.I like it very much myself. But it's hard for me to listen to this particular stuff at the moment.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamTheater 131 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I love his Flying Horsemen music. I like that he merged his two biggest passions together.He wrote his soul for his passion, but that passion cost him his soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Horner really captured the free spirit of flight especially well in his music. The passion ran very deep and it touched something in him he believed in.I've been noticing that as I listen to his stuff. Anything piece connecting with flight tends to rise above its companion pieces in a score. "Flying" from The Man Without a Face, "Flight of the Griffin" from The Spiderwick Chronicles, all the material from The Rocketeer and Apollo 13—even the change in mood that takes place in Krull between the moment the fire mares are galloping on the ground and the moment they take flight . . . the subject just seemed to bring the greatest inspiration out of him. curlytoot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMVANQUISH007 1 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Its been two months since James Horners tragic passing. Its taken me some time to get my thoughts together about the overwhelming loss to fans and the film industry of this truly talented composer. Since his passing ive resorted to buying the rest of his scores that i dont have on CD its difficult but im getting there. Those ones that i have ordered and recieved may be lesser scores, all the same, his talent shines through with majestic uplifting themes and scores to savour and to enjoy and i have to say we can weep to as a result of his passing.I first came to love John Williams' music when i saw the film The Poseidon Adventure-from then on I was hooked and ive stayed with JW ever since, meeting him twice in my lifeJames Horner punched me fairly and squarely in the mouth on July 25th 1982 when i ventured 60 miles from where i live in Wiltshire, England to Bournemouth to watch Star Trek 2 The Wrath of Khan at the ABC Cinema Bournemouth in 70mm Dolby 6 Track Magnetic Stereo on the biggest screen in the west of englandWhen those opening credits came up and Horners magnificent music pounded out of those speakers , I was absolutely gobsmacked-a changed man. Yes we had John Barry and Jerry Goldsmith and the premiere composer of the day, John Wililams but who on earth was James Horner. As soon as i got home i made plans, the following day i was in my local record shop asking who this guy was.I was gobsmacked that a guy in his mid twenties had composed a magnificent score to accompany this impressive film Mustnt forget there was no internet, no social media-one had to rely on snippets of information in the film magazine of the day Photoplay film monthly-Humanoids of the Deep on vinyl became my first aquisition (Star Trek 2 didnt become available for another month)then Battle Beyond The Stars, Krull-I started to get Horner into my soulAnd its stayed that way ever since.In 1989, i changed career and went into cinema management and became a film buyer watching the latest films before release.It gave me the opportunity of watching for 20 plus years the films and listening to the soundtracks from Williams and Horner and others including the newbies like Hans Zimmer etc before anybody elseI always thought that despite the differences in style , Horner would take over from Williams.Sadly 2 months ago it was not to be.I mourn the loss of this man-i have grown up with his music.I dont care about some repitition in his films but what i do remember is the emotional impact.I remember the gorgeous themes of An AmericanTail, the haunting Casper, Ripley and Newt waiting for the drop ship in Aliens, the rocket takeoff in Apollo 13, the soaring Rockiteer (expanded release please), A Beautiful Mind and BiCentennial Man, the brilliant scores for Braveheart and Glory, Jumanji , Perfect storm , the amazing Spiderman and who cannot forget Titanic and AvatarThe list goes on -so much to remember-scores of great emotion and powerGod am i going to miss this composerHe loved flying and thats how he died.But one thing is for sure -he left this world a wonderful legacy of superb film music you can listen to and never tire ofAnd for that impact on my life , I thank you James-RIPHere is a you tube link you may have seen since his death-if you havent then enjoy the man and his music -i consider it to be a great epitaph for himIt is his composition for the Horsemen aerial acrobatic teamIt soars-Enjoy it like I have-its a gemhttps://youtu.be/GQINoi5LbBsIf the above link does not work just go onto You tube and in the search engine typeBehind the Scenes James Horner scores The Horsemen- its 7mins 40 secs long Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Nice post AMVANQUISH007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamTheater 131 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Here here ! Very well said... Essentially my thoughts as well, except Aliens was the game-changer for me.Late Oscar-winning composer James Horner honored in 8-bit tribute This is awesome.I only saw this now... What a cute tribute ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Here here !It's "Hear, hear!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamTheater 131 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Oh sorry, english being a language I learned (and still learning) through movies, music, and message boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMVANQUISH007 1 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 In my haste to write my personal obit to James, I stupidly left out from my script the unforgettable swing era soundtracks to Cocoon (and the Return) and Batteries Not Included-I hope this corrects thatFinally, does anybody across the water in the US know if there was a funeral or memorial service for James and what the date was? Are there any recordings of it and what the order of service was and what if anything was played?.I cant find anything on the net about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 He had a private memorial. I understand his family was taking the tragic and sudden death in stride considering the tragic and sudden circumstances. It is a great and tragic loss that many are still stunned by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMVANQUISH007 1 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks for that KarelmI sincerely hope the moderators of JWFAN, in some shape or form whether directly or indirectly through friends, advise the family about this blog to show how much he was loved by fans especially those in John Williams community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Advise the family? I don't know his family. Feel free to send them a link if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMVANQUISH007 1 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Well-- flag up and notify through his agents office to pass on (rather than advise ) was what I was trying to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 It's been a year. I am listening to James Horner scores exclusively at work today. Anyone else want to join me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Near far where ever you are I believe that the heart does go on. Miss you James. rpvee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I can't believe it's been a year already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I've been listening to Horner for days now. And also ordered Uncommon Valor from Intrada just before it went out of print. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Battle Beyond The Stars Fun little gem. Kind of like a mini, low budget version of his big operatic space action scores to come. Aliens Stupendously amazing as always! Humanoids from the Deep Harmless enough, didn't make much of an impact on me (only heard a few times before) Brainstorm Wow, such power here. I can't believe it took me 30 years to ever hear this score.... must listen more often! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 We need a complete release of that. And film tracks! Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Indeed, a 2 disc set with the complete film recordings on one disc and the LSO album recording on the other. Like The Fury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 8,012 Posted June 22, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted June 22, 2016 Karol rpvee, Gnome in Plaid, Dixon Hill and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 minute ago, crocodile said: <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Special Score Story- On recording <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheForceAwakens?src=hash">#TheForceAwakens</a> Score with John Williams on the day James Horner passed. ? <a href="https://t.co/pmEtQM8245">pic.twitter.com/pmEtQM8245</a></p>— Varèse Sarabande (@VareseSarabande) <a href="https://twitter.com/VareseSarabande/status/745662305069735936">June 22, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> Karol What is that? 13 minutes ago, crocodile said: We need a complete release of that. And film tracks! Karol You already have a complete release of that recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Yeah, I meant film score. Sorry, poorly structured post. Oh and fixed my post above too! Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I never knew that James sat in on the scoring sessions when Jerry recorded STTMP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 It's hard to believe it has been a year all ready. I think I'll listen to my favorite Star Trek score tonight as a tribute to him....Star Trek II The Wrath Of Khan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 10 hours ago, Jay said: It's been a year. I am listening to James Horner scores exclusively at work today. Anyone else want to join me? All of that in one day? That is a massive list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I meant to say the rest of the week! Even then I won't get through all that, probably. Got a bit carried away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Dixon Hill and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 5 hours ago, JoeinAR said: I never knew that James sat in on the scoring sessions when Jerry recorded STTMP. Yeah he mentioned it here: Karol Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 There was another interview where Horner forgot Jerry's name and said he didn't like the score for ST:TMP. Horner seemed to really oversimplify his music in that interview. His vocal rendition is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I would love to hear his infamous rendition of My Heart Will Go On. You know, the ones that almost put off Celine Dion. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Can't believe it's been a year already. Will definitely stick on Braveheart later. Might ht have a look at that Spotify playlist, Jay. I'm a big fan of what Horner scores I've heard but I haven't delved very deep into the canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post publicist 4,643 Posted June 23, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2016 Make sure to include the animation scores. A genre Horner was born to write for. crocodile, Not Mr. Big and Bilbo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melange 446 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,527 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Brilliant, Melange! Fucking brilliant! I played "Brainstorm" on the day that he died....and I cried. He never composed a finer score. Melange 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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