The Rise of Skywalker Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker (JJ Abrams 2019)

[Tom 4,651]

I would not try to glean too much from comparing statements from Abrams and Trevorrow.  I think they are both peddling more spin and ego-jockeying than reality.   

[Chen G. 3,949]

53 minutes ago, oierem said:

But since it does seem to matter, we should assume that it's very possible that they would lie to us about it. (after all, Lucas lied about Vader being the father from the beginning for this very reason).

 

The filmmakers on the sequel trilogy have been much more upfront on these issues than Lucas ever was, though.

 

Nothing in the interview with Abrams explicitly states that Palpatine's return was prefigured before The Force Awakens came out. Only the title of the article suggests this, so as to get people to click, no doubt. Kathleen Kennedy's "statement", too, reads like something the overly-eager journalist all but put in her mouth.

[Arpy 4,145]

34 minutes ago, Tom said:

I would not try to glean too much from comparing statements from Abrams and Trevorrow.  I think they are both peddling more spin and ego-jockeying than reality.   

I've never had that impression of them, both seem like genuinely good people.

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

That's whats makes it so spookey.

[crumbs 14,306]

20 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I've never had that impression of them, both seem like genuinely good people.

 

I'm with @Tom on this one. Something feels disingenuous about Trev's comments, especially that part where he mentions JJ retaining his ideas. Seems more like CT justifying his story credit and one-noting himself.

[Chen G. 3,949]

I've read the original, unabridged interview. It reads to me more that Abrams got to reuse concepts from the development of The Force Awakens (e.g. exploring the ruins of the Death Star) rather than having used The Force Awakens (much less its sequel) to drive towards any particular beat that he had in mind for Rise of Skywalker. In fact, he says:

 

Quote

[Rian Johnson] wrote his story. And [only] when I read the script, I realized this didn’t get in the way of anything Larry and I talked about[...]But the specifics of Palpatine? I wasn’t supposed to do this movie.[...only when]I got back on that train, I started asking where does this go?[...]we went back to the threads that were exciting to us and then we found new ones.

 

[Arpy 4,145]

It's hard to tell from those comments alone, detached from the context they were probably said in that they were anything other than genuine responses, not peddling bullshit and spin. Abrams, Trevorrow and Johnson were sharing notes (which is honestly better than each director going in blind and with their own ego) and each probably had ideas that overlapped/merged/expanded naturally, and why would Trevorrow feel the need to boast?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arpy 4,145]

Chen, wouldn't Abrams be reading the script for The Last Jedi - as referenced in the interview? So it would place the discussions/ideas after TFA but still before TLJ and TRoS.

[mstrox 6,651]

9 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

 More to the point, does it really matter?

 

^^^^^^

 

[Tom 4,651]

Trevorrow knows full well that Abrams has been saying for months that Palps was part of the plan from the beginning.  I think he went out of his way to call bullshit on it.  He is probably right, which is my point that both of them are engaged in an ego-match.  

[Balahkay 627]

Did Snoke come into the picture when the idea of the Emperor coming back was dropped?  Would the Emperor still have come back for final film if Snoke was still alive?

[aviazn 273]

On 11/25/2019 at 10:52 PM, mrbellamy said:

Sometimes i feel like people just look for things not to like.

 

This is like the oldest joke template in the book....same statement said three different ways. Exclamation, question, statement. Hardly meta. If anything it's incredibly old fashioned. Vaudeville stuff.

Who said meta isn’t old-fashioned? Vaudeville is all about breaking the fourth wall and calling attention to itself. The meta-ness here isn’t the template, it’s that it references the audience’s incredulity as the joke. And that’s precisely what I don’t like in Star Wars.

 

Lucas built a world and by and large played its story straight, and that’s where it gets so much of its power from. It intersects with and resembles or tweaks our own universe, but those similarities or divergences aren’t played for a laugh. Everyone in the universe accepts the universe in which they reside as real to them. Technological surprises—like a clone army, or quad lightsabers—are immediately accepted by the characters, who react to them according to their motivations, not to give the audience a laugh.

 

Calling attention to the artifice of the films by constantly acknowledging what they mean to the audience is Abrams’ choice, but I have never agreed with it.

[Holko 9,516]

That whole "you probably don't recognise me because of the red arm" schtick was a far worse offender than "they can fly now?"

[Fabulin 3,511]

.

[Balahkay 627]

The line was perfect was C-3PO.

[mrbellamy 6,277]

2 hours ago, aviazn said:

Who said meta isn’t old-fashioned? Vaudeville is all about breaking the fourth wall and calling attention to itself. The meta-ness here isn’t the template, it’s that it references the audience’s incredulity as the joke. And that’s precisely what I don’t like in Star Wars.

 

Lucas built a world and by and large played its story straight, and that’s where it gets so much of its power from. It intersects with and resembles or tweaks our own universe, but those similarities or divergences aren’t played for a laugh. Everyone in the universe accepts the universe in which they reside as real to them. Technological surprises—like a clone army, or quad lightsabers—are immediately accepted by the characters, who react to them according to their motivations, not to give the audience a laugh.

 

Calling attention to the artifice of the films by constantly acknowledging what they mean to the audience is Abrams’ choice, but I have never agreed with it.

 

I don't know how 3PO, Finn, and Poe being surprised and annoyed that the troopers are flying after them on jetpacks isn't a reasonable reaction for those characters in the moment.

 

I fail to see how is this any different from Han going "Hey! It's me!" right into camera in Return of the Jedi, or Obi-Wan going "I hate it when he does that" out loud to himself/the audience when Anakin jumps out of the speeder in AOTC...Watto going "What you think you're some kinda JEDI waving your hand around like that??" which is Lucas deliberately subverting our familiarity with that trick for a gag.

 

That's off the top of my head. I know there are others in Return of the Jedi and especially the prequels which are chock full of in-jokes. I get thinking they're dumb, some are funnier than others, but Star Wars calling attention to Star Wars really isn't new.

[Chen G. 3,949]

There's some wink-and-nod humour in the previous entries, to be sure. Its certainly been dialed up for the sequel trilogy - because its part of the contemporary aesthetic - although The Force Awakens used it in moderation to the point that it was rather enjoyable. The Last Jedi, not so much.

 

4 hours ago, Tom said:

Trevorrow knows full well that Abrams has been saying for months that Palps was part of the plan from the beginning. 

 

But that's the thing: Abrams hasn't been saying this for months. Basically what happened is that one journalist all but put this information in Kathleen Kennedy's mouth, and that's basically it. Abrams didn't speak on this matter until this recent interview, and even here he's suspiciously vague upon the whole affair.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Was “they fly now?” intended to provoke laughter?

[mrbellamy 6,277]

Yes, except for you. JJ told me.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

What’s the joke? They are flying, and the characters are acknowledging this newfound ability. 

[Edmilson 7,428]

Geez, are you guys seriously overthinking a small and innofensive joke on a Disney movie? No wonder the MCU has so many haters down here.

[Tom 4,651]

3 hours ago, Kasey Kockroach said:

What’s the joke? They are flying, and the characters are acknowledging this newfound ability. 

You are trolling, correct?

[Arpy 4,145]

They troll now?

[Tom 4,651]

They troll now?

[crumbs 14,306]

They troll now! 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

3 hours ago, Arpy said:

They troll now?

 

3 hours ago, Tom said:

They troll now?

 

33 minutes ago, crumbs said:

They troll now! 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

I’m just wondering what the joke IS! I’m intrigued!

[Fabulin 3,511]

.

[mrbellamy 6,277]

7 hours ago, Kasey Kockroach said:

I’m just wondering what the joke IS! I’m intrigued!

 

[Arpy 4,145]

[theMaestraX 106]

George Lucas's CRITICAL reaction to the TRAILER! 

Miss You George!

 

[Jay 37,340]

On 11/25/2019 at 1:04 PM, Edmilson said:

LOL

 

 

https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2019/11/25/for-one-brief-moment-a-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-script-was-on-ebay

 

 

It was Boyega

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wow!

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

I knew it!

[Demodex 557]

I think what Trevorrow meant was Abrams had the idea to bring Palpatine back when he was brought on board to write and direct The Force Awakens.  Therefore the two are not contradicting each other.

[publicist 4,643]

That's not an 'idea', that's a cop-out.

[Chen G. 3,949]

3 hours ago, Demodex said:

I think what Trevorrow meant was Abrams had the idea to bring Palpatine back when he was brought on board to write and direct The Force Awakens.  Therefore the two are not contradicting each other.

 

Doesn’t read like that to me. Oh well...

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

Abrams always had the idea, but never told anyone about it to avoid leaks.

[theMaestraX 106]

'It waz ME!'

[Tom 4,651]

KK confirmed that it was the intent to have Palps back in IX all along.  Either she and JJ are lying or Trevorrow is.  In the grand scheme of things it does not really matter, but contradictions are still contradictions.  

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

Trevorrow just wasn't paying attention - that's probably why he was fired.

[Wojo 2,453]

I'm not really upset that Palpy returns. He did anyways in the old EU. Vader's sacrifice had been undermined in the old continuity for twenty-plus years of comics and novels. 

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

KK confirmed that it was the intent to have Palps back in IX all along.  Either she and JJ are lying or Trevorrow is.  In the grand scheme of things it does not really matter, but contradictions are still contradictions.  

I don't think Trevorrow is lying.  Abrams had the idea to bring Palps back when he wrote TFA.

[Tom 4,651]

7 minutes ago, Demodex said:

I don't think Trevorrow is lying.  Abrams had the idea to bring Palps back when he wrote TFA.

Well, then KK is lying, as she said the plan was always to have him in IX.  Do you not think she would have communicated such a trifle to the writer for IX?  

[Demodex 557]

13 minutes ago, Tom said:

Well, then KK is lying, as she said the plan was always to have him in IX.  Do you not think she would have communicated such a trifle to the writer for IX?  

 

No, KK isn't lying. 

 

This isn't difficult. 

A way that this all fits so that no one is lying is that when Abrams was brought onboard to do TFA he had the idea of bringing Palpatine back in the final movie. 

[Tom 4,651]

17 minutes ago, Demodex said:

 

No, KK isn't lying. 

 

This isn't difficult. 

A way that this all fits so that no one is lying is that when Abrams was brought onboard to do TFA he had the idea of bringing Palpatine back in the final movie. 

https://hnentertainment.co/kathleen-kennedy-says-palpatines-return-for-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-was-always-in-the-blueprint/

[Demodex 557]

Exactly. You just proved my point. Thanks. 

[Tom 4,651]

No, KK is saying it was Lucasfilm's (as in her) plan, not just JJ, though he may have had the idea first.  This means that whoever was to write IX would be following the mold, which in this case was Trevorrrow.  Again, she may be misrepresenting things, but this is what her words mean.  It is nice that you want no one to be lying, but at least one of them is.  It is no different from Lucas claiming Darth Vader was always to be Luke's father, Luke and Leia sisters, etc.  they are lies, but they make sense from a PR point of view.

[Demodex 557]

No where in that link does she say it was her plan.  My theory makes sense and doesn't contradict anything in that link. 

[oierem 152]

Well, bringing Palpatine back is hardly an original idea; it's the most obvious (and cheap, in my opinion) story development. I don't doubt that it was discussed from the very beginning.

 

Now, whether they had actually decided to bring him back when they did TFA or not is not clear. The lack of any hint of Palpatine being alive in either TFA or TLJ is rather telling. As is the intentional spoiler of letting everyone know Palpatine is back well before the movie comes out (if they had kept it a secret, and we only found out watching the movie, a lot of us would be disappointed at such a cheap option. Instead, they let the idea sink in months in advance, so every fan knows about it and has, more or less, accepted it).