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Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker (JJ Abrams 2019)


Jay
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Rey's path was still open following TFA, there was still room to take her character down a darker route, but that would be too risky in a trilogy set upon not taking risks. 

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Not really. She's too good a person in The Force Awakens for me to believe she could go evil over the course of two two-hour movies.

 

Besides, I think tragedy thrives on early setup and inevitability as opposed to being a surprise reserved to later chapter. Either you set-up a tragic arc in your first film, or you just don't go down that path. Anything else is going to feel unearned.

 

And, again, its not a part Ridley seems too well equipped to play. Clearly, she was hired on her ability to exude goodness, which she does very well. Going into sequels with an already established cast, you need to use what you've got and play into their strengths. All the "Is Rey going to turn evil?" moments aren't well-performed by Ridley.

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4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Not really. She's too good a person in The Force Awakens for me to believe she could go evil over the course of two two-hour movies.

 

I see it 180 degrees to the opposite. People aren't evil by nature. 

People do evil things out of misguided convictions, and if you really go into psychology, people do evil things out of unwavering conviction to serve a good cause that justifies evil means. It's all over history. 

 

Rey conveys a deeply troubled character, and especially in ROS, I find her goody two shoe character unspeakably unconvincing and cringe, and she's very good in moments that she's angry. Whereas Driver is very good at acting the redeeming villain. 

 

It could have been a chance to do a real character study a la Anakin, only good, but instead they opted for the most superficial, inane story. 

 

Rey should have killed Palpatine, assumed his role, then Ben Solo should have killed Rey. 

That would have been satisfying. 

 

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I don't think the Hero's Journey (good person goes on quest and returns home having changed) is more superficial than the tragic hero narrative (good person with a tragic flaw spirals into corruption and/or death).

 

I like Rey's story in The Force Awakens, and would have enjoyed it if the sequels built off of it rather than teasing Rey going evil for some esoteric reason.

 

Also, the morals of latter-day Star Wars according to which slaying the antagonist is somehow evil, is really twisted. If Rey would have killed Palpatine, she wouldn't be in the wrong to do so, any more than she was when she struck down Kylo.

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There is no hero journey for Rey. She's a hero, and she goes on a journey, but she doesn't have a hero's journey. 

She doesn't display significant emotions for anyone.

Kylo Ren's journey is far more interesting.

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Oh, I was fascinated by Kylo Ren in The Force Awakens. Possibly my favourite scene of the film, if not the trilogy, was the one that had him pray to Vader's helmet. And when he pushed himself into doing the thing that Vader couldn't bring himself to do - kill a member of his own family - I thought it was something out of a good old Aristotelian tragedy.

 

Then came the redemption arc and ruined it. Its not really a tragedy if there's a redemption at its end. Plus, its the most morally-corrupt moment in the whole series.

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7 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Oh, I was fascinated by Kylo Ren in The Force Awakens. Possibly my favourite scene of the film, if not the trilogy, was the one that had him pray to Vader's helmet. And when he pushed himself into doing the thing that Vader couldn't bring himself to do - kill a member of his own family - I thought it was something out of a good old Aristotelian tragedy.

 

Then came the redemption arc and ruined it. Its not really a tragedy if there's a redemption at its end. Plus, its the most morally-corrupt moment in the whole series.

 

Agreed. Kylo shouldn't have been redeemed. Rey shouldn't have been teased to be evil. These are both major things that have already happened in Star Wars. There were so many directions the series could've gone after TFA...and like a lot of things these days...we got one of the worst timeline versions of it.

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Kylo and Rey, and ALL of the characters are seriously underwritten and underdeveloped in the entire trilogy, instead they're fancy character designs made to appeal to children, just like Darth Vader and Boba Fett that stand out as iconography as opposed to full-fledged characters. 

Luke didn't have an antagonist like Kylo Ren, he had the interactions with Han and Leia, his doubts about confronting Vader, about The Force and becoming a Jedi.

 

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And another thought: WHy the hell doesn't Kylo "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" Ren just slice the reanimated corpse into bits? Really, what reason? What can he give him? "A new Empire"? Proper answer is "Dude, the Empire failed. You failed. I kill old things. Btw I have my own new Empire now, which I'm Supreme Leader of. Though I have no idea what I do, how go things, how large we are, what the state of the Galaxy is is, because these morons are sidestepping it because they think the one main lesson from the prequels is NO POLITICS WHATSOEVER OR PEOPLE WILL HATE US."

 

And once again, what exactly is Palps' plan?

-Make 20 kajingalamobillazingillion ships all with planet destroyer weapons

-Make clones

-Have a good but not Force sensitive one

-let him go

-make a bounty hunter kill him when he has a Force sensitive child, but make it be an incompetent hunter who leaves the kid then dies immediately when he steps out of his ship into... quickpebbles.

-Manipulate the grandson of your failed bro who killed you for years through visions and meat puppets for... reasons.

-Make an announcement in Fortnite that he's back

-Talk to Kylo after he somehow found a wayfinder

-tell him to kill Force Sensitive granddaughter who he wants to transition into because... 4D chess?

-tell Rey that if she kills him, he will take over his body, if she doesn't then... he will remain on life support tucked away on an unreachable planet?

-start killing your dream heir and the Kylo who turned against you after he only ever found you to kill you in the first place

-be so stupid that only then do you realise that they are a dyad and can suck their lifeforce out

-start lightninging into the sky to stop every ship but then start lightninging your Force Sensitive granddaughter even when she reflects it onto you and you die and don't move into her after all.

 

 

Makes sense.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/fsmnsq/according_to_the_art_of_the_rise_of_skywalker_the/?ref=share&ref_source=link

 

pgfWEpe.jpg

 

 

Also, disappointing news from OP in the comments...

"As a complete aside, I’m pretty pissed that this book has practically nothing after Rey and Kylo fight on the Death Star wreckage. No Force Ghost Luke, no Palpatine, no Exogal, no Ben Solo, no Tatooine...

The book was delayed from the date of the theatrical release to the date of the physical release. I assumed it was due to the fear of spoilers, but now I have no clue why..."

Fuck's sake...

I know @Disco Stu still had the book on preorder.

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That's disappointing - the visual dictionary also skipped any Palpatine stuff - but kept the Sith Fleet material.

I was really looking forward to the art for Palpatine, to see all the different early designs etc.

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I don't even get this pushback/removing stuff for no spoilers thing. If you don't want spoilers, don't buy the fucking book or don't open it. If things getting on the internet is their concern, we had pictures from this book 3 months ago, and the entire plot of the movie including week-to-week changes were fucking leaked through the latter half of the year, this shit seems like a pretty low priority problem in the bigger scheme.

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That and the idea of pulling those spoilery materials long after the release of the film. I get that in most instances, the art books are made months in advance of a film's release, but this is all a bit wonky, if not a bit sus.

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Something is definitely suss, considering all the rumours about early versions of the Palpatine story and a very different climax. The trilogy is over, what's there to hide at this point? Are they just afraid people will see all the awesome abandoned ideas and get pissed?

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Very, very suss. Even the later leaks said Leia/Luke fought off Palpatine at the end to help Rey. As if there wasn't concept art for that!

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Seeing how clear and well-envisioned the film is, I wouldn't be that surprised if we found out they just winged half of it on set.

 

4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I got my copy yesterday and literally the first thing I looked for was concept art for Exegol and Palpatine.  Nothin’.

At this point what remains that I'd want it for is the TLJ chapter(s?), then.

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On 3/29/2020 at 2:28 PM, Holko said:

And another thought: WHy the hell doesn't Kylo "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" Ren just slice the reanimated corpse into bits? Really, what reason? What can he give him? "A new Empire"? Proper answer is "Dude, the Empire failed. You failed. I kill old things. Btw I have my own new Empire now, which I'm Supreme Leader of.

HA! Good one.

 

Indeed Palps was promising stuff that Mr. Ren already bloody had!

 

Sense, thy name is NOT Rise of Skywalker.

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Does it really need to be spelled out that Rey being a Skywalker is metaphorical? 

Is that an indication of how stupid they think their audience is? 

Of course it's metaphorical. That's not the objection the audience has to it. The objection is that it's fucking ludicrous. 

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The only thing I liked about it was the score.  it doesn't even feature any action scenes or comedy bits that linger in my memory

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I thought a lot of the shots were not composed well actually.  But sure, it didn't look cheaply made or anything, and the special effects were spot on

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14 minutes ago, Jay said:

The only thing I liked about it was the score.  it doesn't even feature any action scenes or comedy bits that linger in my memory


I thought the action and humour were both fine. Certainly, I prefer Abrams humour to Johnson’s: it’s not as meta (I hate meta).


Nothing particularly noteworthy about the cinematography - the Spielbegian touch of The Force Awakens isn’t quite there - but the effects are mostly well-rendered.


Doesn’t save the movie, but I’m willing to acknowledge the parts that do work.

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How did you feel about the surround sound and how the ships flew around the audience? The subwoofer effects were wicked! Like when Kylo Ren dropped his helmet on the table and it made a sudden wave of bass rumble that shook the cinema louder than anything else in movie history!

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I remember things I like.  Bad movies just go in one ear and out the other

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A lot like Solo, it didn't leave a lasting impression on me - unlike TFA, Rogue One, and TLJ, all of which I thought were great.  It was fine.  I didn't hate TROS, but it really wasn't for me.  I remember liking that little Babu guy, thought Keri Russell had incredible eyelashes when she was ogling Poe, and liking Kylo's goony smile before he poofed away.  Maybe if I do a second watch when it hits Disney+ I'll have more opinions. 

 

My spouse said it was her favorite Star Wars movie, though.

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29 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Something I only just learned today:  in terms of worldwide box office gross, The Rise of Skywalker didn't even quite gross more than Joker.  How pathetic is that?

 

image.png

Its pathetic, but do the 2020 numbers change the final order? 

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On 4/2/2020 at 3:38 AM, Þekþiþm said:

How did you feel about the surround sound and how the ships flew around the audience? The subwoofer effects were wicked! Like when Kylo Ren dropped his helmet on the table and it made a sudden wave of bass rumble that shook the cinema louder than anything else in movie history!

I remember the surround sound pumping out tie fighter noises and explosions in the background that obstructed nearly every moment of the score.

 

The sound team dropped every inane sound they could just so they could make the score inaudible and for no other reason.

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I just can't fathom what the hell they mean with that at all. Did they see the movie or only dumb youtube rant videos?

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Rubbish. Between JJ and Lawrence Kasdan, they had total control of the narrative (even if the broad strokes from Disney/Lucasfilm were to follow the path established by the OT over the PT).

 

Do you really think it was Disney who demanded blatant regurgitation like Death Star Starkiller Base and Emperor Snoke? If so, why were they miraculously hands off when it came to Rian Johnson having free reign to do as he pleased?

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Creative people involved in these productions aren't necessarily going to agree with one another or the outcome of films they weren't involved with. Hell, even George Lucas was tepid on TFA, not sure what he thought of TLJ, and I haven't heard a peep on what he thought of TROS. I dunno, SW has always been just a bunch of explodey space noise.

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