aj_vader 533 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Well, ROTS already suffered from trying to sound more "modern", with the epic choir and the taiko drums all over the action scenes. So it's probable some of that will still exist here, to appeal to that trailer music listening crowd.We had epic choir in The Phantom Menace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 But in '99 the trailer music craze hadn't still settled down as we know it. That was more Lucas asking for a Carmina Burana sort of thing, which later became standard in epic movies and trailers. Loert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Finally gave in and watched the trailer. I appreciate the inclusion of the love theme - which yes, totally functions as Han's theme in a few cases - but on the whole, yuck. Reminds just me how grateful I am that we're getting an actual Williams score for the film. Even a so-called autopilot Williams score would at least fit the Star Wars aesthetic better than this sort of writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I REALLY HATE THE MUSIC IN THIS TRAILER I AM POSSESSED BY UNGOVERNABLE RAGE MY CHILDHOOD HAS BEEN RAPED AND I HAVE STARTED FIGHTS WITH EVERYONE I'VE SEEN OUT ON THE STREET BECAUSE OF IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,330 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Well, ROTS already suffered from trying to sound more "modern", with the epic choir and the taiko drums all over the action scenes. So it's probable some of that will still exist here, to appeal to that trailer music listening crowd.Suffered!?ROTS is great. if it "suffered" from anything, it was wailing Woman, and SuperBass voices (Padme's Ruminations and Palpatine's Teachings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,281 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Here is a music only version of the trailer. You can hear the dips in volume where the dialogue is suposed to be heardhttps://www.facebook.com/Disneyland/videos/10153713996890742/Did anyone save this before Disney took it down? They must have posted the dialogue-free version by mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,330 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Here is a music only version of the trailer. You can hear the dips in volume where the dialogue is suposed to be heardhttps://www.facebook.com/Disneyland/videos/10153713996890742/Did anyone save this before Disney took it down? They must have posted the dialogue-free version by mistake!I did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,281 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 To YouTube you must go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Even if it's just a trailer (a disposable item aimed only to generate buzz and hype and sell tickets in advance), I think it's a sad sign of the times that someone thought they need to "modernize" Williams' timeless music to make it sound cooler to current audience.I think what's even sadder is just how many people it takes to write 2 minutes of EPIC music for a trailer. They hired an entire company for the first half, and another guy for the second, all to beef up pre-existing material.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Epic music needs epic means! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,330 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 And Epic memes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayesian 1,359 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Even if it's just a trailer (a disposable item aimed only to generate buzz and hype and sell tickets in advance), I think it's a sad sign of the times that someone thought they need to "modernize" Williams' timeless music to make it sound cooler to current audience.It's not timeless if you have to modernize it for current audiences.TownerFan's argument would seem to be that JW's themes are timeless and there's no need to modernize them. That someone (at Disney or Bad Robot or wherever) would think otherwise is what's sad.Even if it's just a trailer (a disposable item aimed only to generate buzz and hype and sell tickets in advance), I think it's a sad sign of the times that someone thought they need to "modernize" Williams' timeless music to make it sound cooler to current audience. What is even worse (imho) is that I already read comments online here and there with people stating that "Star Wars music never sounded better" or things like that. I never take too seriously comments on Facebook or YouTube or the likes, but it made me ponder about it. I wonder how this kind of "modern audience" type of people will react when they will listen to Williams' symphonic, classically-styled compositions in the film (because no way Williams is gonna "modernize" his style), without any of this "EPIC!" choir-and-percussion clichées... If they'd ever notice, of course.It makes me also wonder if Williams' own style of writing, so deeply rooted in traditional film scoring technique and formal classical structures, still applies so well and smoothly to the kind of modern hyper-kinetic, super-sleek style of filmmaking this film appears to have. It's gonna be interesting to see how JW reacted to this in musical terms.I understand what you mean, but we do not really know the motivations beyond the choice. Maybe JW was simply busy enough with the movie score, also considering what he had to undergo this year, so they just asked some other guys to prepare the music for the trailer. As Jason was proposing some posts ago, it is possible that the first part of the music had been prepared for an earlier version (by these "Confidential" guys), then something was changed and they called Lloyd to do an arrangement of two themes to complete the trailer (otherwise, it would really be awkward if they had to hire so many people to do something that Williams could have done better in a couple of hours on a rainy afternoon). Or maybe they simply wanted to give the possibility to a young guy to do something SW-related.Apart from that, while my reaction from the musical point of view was the same as that of many people here, let's consider for a moment the human side. Frederic Lloyd is a very young composer, probably he simply exaggerated in the attempt to make the themes sound "epic", which he probably accomplished according to his own sensitivity. We all know John Williams and we know that being epic is something else, but maybe Lloyd's intent was simply to pay a hommage with his own language, not necessarily to explicitly "modernize" the themes. At the end, again, who cares about the trailer music (except us die-hard JW fans, that is!). About the "Star Wars never sounded better" guys, well, as someone said recently, before the internet age people used to express uninformed opinions in pubs while drinking beer, and were usually silenced by their best friends around them before getting "to the press", while nowadays they can write them on the web and everybody gets to read them. And about the marriage between JW's writing style and the new movies' style, I think we already got a partial answer more than 10 years ago with the prequel trilogy (e.g. the rapid changes of scenes in ROTS and in the final battle/duel in TPM). As far as I am concerned, what matters is that the music will be great.I agree with Score. The music will be great. When reading the vaguely vituperative echo chamber that is this thread, I sometimes have to remind myself that a) JJ repeatedly and genuinely talks about his love of JW's music, b) JJ expressed deep admiration for themes JW developed for TFA, and c) from what I can tell, no expense is being spared to allow JW to "do his thing".We're going to enjoy an incredible score in less than two months. If the price for that is a committee-effort adaptation by an army of music producers (so as to free JW from trailer scoring duty), I'm down. Doesn't hurt, I suppose, that I didn't mind the trailer music and I loved the trailer. Can't wait for December 19 (soonest available date for 5 good seats in IMAX 3D near me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I too dislike the music of this trailer. I must admit after seeing this trailer I feel worried about the whole film. Not only was the music bad I feel the camera moves around too much. I've been pretty excited thus far but this trailer just didn't do it for me at all. Here's hoping it's just a coorperate cut trailer that isn't very reflective of the feel of the actual movie. Jeshopk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I guess with the rapid fire sound effects I did not notice the drums but jeez in this music only version, the force theme sounds horrible with those drums. I guess I now see the desecration of Williams music that others have been talking about. Williams would never write something so Remote Control-ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yeah, the Force Theme does sound really mangled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,281 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Great - thanks for posting that! (I missed it when it was on Facebook)The trailer honestly plays a lot better with just the music and no dialogueBut indeed, the music is not anything I'd ever want to listen to on its own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 My only complaints about the trailer are dialogue-related. Boyega's delivery is hammy and Driver's is just… mehhh. The music is exciting, obviously not Star Wars, but for a Star Wars trailer, I reckon it's perfectly fine. The choral stuff is pretty sexy actually, especially (the soloist?) on Han and Leia's theme. Far from typical "epic choir" bullshit. In fact it sounds very much like the few instances of choral music from the OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think Han's theme works so well because it's already so classical sounding. No matter how many basic minor chords you throw in there, the melody itself it's still really in the romanticisim vein -I hope I'm right, maybe some of the more musical conosseurs members round here can correct me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I guess with the rapid fire sound effects I did not notice the drums but jeez in this music only version, the force theme sounds horrible with those drums. I guess I now see the desecration of Williams music that others have been talking about. Williams would never write something so Remote Control-ish.On the sheet music score, these should be labelled "Inexcusable drums".I have to say that my benevolent attitude suffered a serious blow after hearing the trailer music alone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 SO why in the hell did they hire and make Williams spend several hours/days recording music for the trailers? for the one minute teaser???!?!NUTS! Jeshopk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,281 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 What's so hard to understand about that?They wanted the first teaser to be something special, with original John Williams music. After that, they didn't.This is a giant corporation. The execs there can can their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Maybe he was supposed to do this one too, but the operation interfered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,242 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 What's so hard to understand about that?This:They wanted the first teaser to be something special, with original John Williams music. After that, they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Well, ROTS already suffered from trying to sound more "modern", with the epic choir and the taiko drums all over the action scenes. So it's probable some of that will still exist here, to appeal to that trailer music listening crowd."Suffered"?ROTS was great! Epic choir and taiko drums and all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,624 Posted October 21, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2015 Well, I think they really mangled the force theme, but I guess Han Solo and the Princess is such a great theme it's destroy proofI'm starting to worry they might alter Williams final score Ricard, Jeshopk and Not Mr. Big 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAH 0 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Is counterpoint that important?Counterpoint is something that Williams himself has said is one of the most important aspects of his compositions. And which this trailer could have really used if it wanted to be more musical. BTW I agree with everyone on here--the drums over the Force theme sound, shall we say, not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 What's so hard to understand about that?This:They wanted the first teaser to be something special, with original John Williams music. After that, they didn't.Yeah, just like Interstellar. It's nice to have a teaser with appropriate music, isn't that enough? Especially considering how musically anonymous 99% of trailers are?Is counterpoint that important?Counterpoint is something that Williams himself has said is one of the most important aspects of his compositions. Did he say that in the same interview where he talks about how musical notes are some of the most important aspects of his compositions?Seriously, can someone explain why counterpoint is now being discussed, and in murky fashion? Did a bunch of people just get out of their first theory class eager to deploy some fancy words?Is there really a concern that this score will be counterpoint-free or something? That the evil Disney people are going to erase all contrapuntal passages and replace them with big drums?BTW I agree with everyone on here--the drums over the Force theme sound, shall we say, not good. Not everyone on here hates the drums. I don't have an issue with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Well, I think they really mangled the force theme, but I guess Han Solo and the Princess is such a great theme it's destroy proofI'm starting to worry they might alter Williams final scoreThe only way Abrams would mess the score would be through just editing it to conform with the film (and I feel that the long scoring and recording process for this film should avoid much of that). Abrams seems to have a lot of respect and admiration for the guy and has said nothing but good things about working with him on this film. There's no way he'd dare actually alter the sound of his score, especially not to make it sound more "epic" if that's what you were implying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,272 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Kennedy would keep that from happening as well. Or one hopes she would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm not worried about the score in the film. They won't have tried to beef it up. But the marketing team wants to get people pumped to spend their money, and for better or worse, this style of music does have that effect on a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,624 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I dunno, we need something to worry aboutThey did tinker with some RotS cues to add drums in them (not sure if Williams recorded those) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The dialogue in the trailer worries me...parts of it, at least. Awkward writing and corny delivery are one of the few aspects of the OT that I'd love a complete departure from, and now I'm not so sure we're gonna get it. And the ROTS drums were tinkered with in some parts of the film, but they were definitely part of what Williams wrote for the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I got a KOTCS Harrison Ford vibe from the dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm stilling not warming up to Kylo's voice. Maybe it'll work better in the film but when I hear his voice, I can't help but hear the Talkboy dialogue from Home Alone 2.As far as the score, I imagine Kennedy and Abrams are giving Williams the freedom to do pretty much what he wants... as they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I got a KOTCS Harrison Ford vibe from the dialogue.Part time! Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Drop dead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Giant ants... Aliens.... It's true. All of it. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Excuse me, I'm going to go hang myself from the ceiling fan like the Thuggee in TOD. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 What's so hard to understand about that?They wanted the first teaser to be something special, with original John Williams music. After that, they didn't.This is a giant corporation. The execs there can can their minds.Are you suggesting that the second teaser wasn't Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Didn't sound like Williams to me. You can point out, correctly, that I did think that stock music from a car commercial was Williams, but what the fuck. At least that was in the style of Williams. Teaser 2 was anything but. It sounded nothing like him outside of the quotes of iconic existing music from the OT, which still didn't sound right. There was no question that the first teaser was him and that the newest trailer was certainly not him. I don't understand why we're still debating his involvement with the second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Excuse me, I'm going to go hang myself from the ceiling fan like the Thuggee in TOD.That's slang for masturbation. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Didn't sound like Williams to me. You can point out, correctly, that I did think that stock music from a car commercial was Williams, but what the fuck. At least that was in the style of Williams. Teaser 2 was anything but. It sounded nothing like him outside of the quotes of iconic existing music from the OT, which still didn't sound right. There was no question that the first teaser was him and that the newest trailer was certainly not him. I don't understand why we're still debating his involvement with the second one.I'm not a big fan of the teaser 2 music but I did like that brass chorale interlude that played over Vader's helmet. Definitely not a fan of the ending crescendo (before the Han/Chewie reveal) which sounds nothing like Williams. I'm also pretty glad that Car Commercial music was fake, as that was uber generic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm stilling not warming up to Kylo's voice. Maybe it'll work better in the film but when I hear his voice, I can't help but hear the Talkboy dialogue from Home Alone 2.His voice reminds me more of ED-209 from RoboCop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm stilling not warming up to Kylo's voice. Maybe it'll work better in the film but when I hear his voice, I can't help but hear the Talkboy dialogue from Home Alone 2.His voice reminds me more of ED-209 from RoboCop.I'm not sold on his voice yet either. I really like everything I've seen from Rey and BB8. I'm not sold on anyone else yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Somebody wanna call a Goddamn paramedic?! Let's go, Johnson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I have no clue about how Rey will perform, whether she'll be a charismatic lead or plain annoying.But BB-8 will be awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 That's exactly how I feel about Finn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Somebody wanna call a Goddamn paramedic?! Let's go, Johnson!DON'T TOUCH HIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyy38 21 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I liked the music, but it still sounded out of place to me. Why didn't Williams write music for this trailer?Probably because he was still focusing on finishing the film score. Filmmakers that are working on movies have time to cobble together, at least, a teaser trailer.Some of those trailers are so early, there are certain scenes that do not make the final cut for whatever reasons.In the middle of the scoring process, Williams would have enough music composed for a final trailer and he wouldn't have to be involved with the editing scheme-the music editor would masterfully take what he had written so far, and then utilized it.And what is meant by "finishing"? Are we talking writing the score or are we talking matching music to picture?This is NOT the first time that Williams has used west coast talent for a popular franchise.When he did it before, it STILL sounded like The London Symphony Orchestra, at least, it did to me.But THIS trailer is going out of it's way to try and sound "relevant" in comparison to the way other scores are orchestrated and/or recorded today."......A long time ago........." seems to have been forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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