Which John Williams trilogy do you enjoy more?

[Kevin McCallister 0]

I figured it was time for a new post on this. Which trilogy (in terms of film and music) do you like the best?

As much as I want to say Star Wars (and I mean the original trilogy, none of the new movies), I've been getting more into Indy as of late. Star Wars may have the better themes, but Indy is just a hell of a lot more fun, IMO.

[Guest]

That´s easy, Star Wars of course.

First music-wise, Star Wars is a grand epic work, that grows with each movie, Indy has the Raiders March...that´s it, a great score each time, but no musical "trilogy".

Second movie-wise Star Wars is a grand epic work(hmm,were did I hear that before ), Indy is mindless, fun, but mindless and meaningless.

The nazis are just plain stupid, always bothered me.

Gimme stormtroopers any day, they may be stupid in their own right(aiming-wise ), but as being completely fictional they give me no bad feeling at all, Star Wars is joyride AND has a meaning !

[Homer 0]

Definitely Star Wars...since we don't have yet the full scores of The Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade.

An that's a complete non-sense !

[Justin 2]

Overall I picked Star Wars. We have all the music to those. With Indy we have 40 minutes of listenable music.

Justin

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Definitely Star Wars...since we don't have yet the full scores of The Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade.  

An that's a complete non-sense !

Actually, we don't have full scores of Raiders Of The Lost ark either.

Unless you have the boot, offcourse.

Stefancos- who has boots for all 3 Indy films, but will pick up complete legit releases in a heartbeat.

[Morn 8]

Star Wars is just bigger, but Indy is not really inferior. So Star Wars.

[Lurker 5]

I went with Indy. Raiders of the Lost Ark is my favorite movie, and there is nothing in the Indy trilogy as bad as Return of the Jedi. Also, the Indy trilogy didn't give us awful prequel films, just a mediocre prequel television series.

Neil

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I chose Indy. I chose it because it's a lighter trilogy. You pick one installment and sit back and relax, because that's the films' main purpose. You play the movie and in two hours the story has finished, you get the message, all the ends are tied. It's a trilogy that's never closed because the movies are closed in themselves.

Star Wars, as good as it is, is all the contrary. You sit and watch ESB and you're never satisfied, because it doesn't lead you from A to C, it leaves you at mid-B. Everything has its context in the Star Wars saga and you can't remove it from there. I know Neil or Joe will say that ANH (actually, they will call it Star Wars) doesn't apply, but we're talking trilogies here.

There's one more aspect as to why the Indy saga is more appealing to me. In Star Wars the characters' motivations are very intellectual: he has to get away from the Dark Side of the Force; he can't be found by the evil Empire because of such and such. In Indy everything appeals more to the guts: Indy has to find this piece. Period. Further than that, he is getting shot at and must run for his life. That makes it more of a piece of entertainment, because, with all this simplicity, it's always easier to relate to Indy from your guts. You can relate to Luke from your brain, but I never do from my guts, and that proves for less (although not null) entertainment.

[King Mark 3,626]

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Actually, we don't have full scores of Raiders Of The Lost ark either.

Unless you have the boot, offcourse.    

.

I listened to the boot and I don't think the actual Expanded release suffers much from those few missing cues.

BTW I picked The Star Wars Trilogy.

K.M.

[Marian Schedenig 8,178]

The first rendition of the Ark theme, which is not on the OST, is one of the best cues in the score.

Marian - who picked SW.

[UCFKevin 0]

When he's showing the government agents the Ark in the Bible? Hell yes, that's such an amazing track.

[Ricard 2,244]

I went with Indy.  Raiders of the Lost Ark is my favorite movie, and there is nothing in the Indy trilogy as bad as Return of the Jedi.

Well, the Indy trilogy has Least Crusade, which is in my opinion light years worse than Return of the Jedi (a great film, IMHO)

Oh wait, haven't we discussed this before?

Ricard - Who would have voted for the Indy Trilogy if it wasn't for the Least Crusade.

[tpigeon 3]

The first rendition of the Ark theme, which is not on the OST, is one of the best cues in the score.

Agreed. I love that!

Ted

[scissorhands 16]

As trilogy, Star Wars is better (development of leit motifs etc.), but I'll choose Indiana Jones. These Indy films are independent :roll: to each other, so Williams can create a new musical world for each film.

Ricard - Who would have voted for the Indy Trilogy if it wasn't for the Least Crusade.

s-hands, who will vote for Indy Trilogy JUST for (for the moment) Last Crusade.

And, of course, my expectations are bigger for Indy 4 than for Episode III.

[UCFKevin 0]

I don't know how to feel about Indy 4. I feel that Last Crusade ended PERFECTLY, the heroes riding off into the sunset, how can you add onto that? It's excellent. To me anyway. (LC is my favorite Indy flick. Usually).

So I feel like they HAVE to make Indy 4 absolutely amazing, worthy of being made, having a point to it, not being stupid and useless like MIB2.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Well, the Indy trilogy has Least Crusade, which is in my opinion light years worse than Return of the Jedi (a great film, IMHO)  

Oh wait, haven't we discussed this before?  

Ricard - Who would have voted for the Indy Trilogy if it wasn't for the Least Crusade.

I just hate it when people refer to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade as Least Crusade.

[Morn 8]

Star Wars, as good as it is, is all the contrary. You sit and watch ESB and you're never satisfied, because it doesn't lead you from A to C, it leaves you at mid-B.

Ohh the ending isn't that bad for a single movie. ANH sort of leaves you unsatisfied too because it's just a small battle in what is to be the end of the empire.

[UCFKevin 0]

But what the hell does it matter? C'mon, guys, seriously. Bitching about Empire Strikes Back because it's the middle movie and it can't be watched on it's own, plot-wise, that's something that someone who hasn't seen Return of the Jedi would say. We all damn well KNOW what's going to happen, so why complain about it? For the sake of complaining? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. Personally, I think ESB is the best of the SW movies, in every sense, score-wise, plotwise, acting wise, production values, special effects, everything, it's all just top notch. And I for one will not complain about it not having a one-shot quality because, dammit, that's just pointless to me. I mean, all the original SW flicks are awesome in my opinion, but ESB takes the cake.

And ANYWAY, I interpreted this poll to be in regards to the scores of the movies, not the movies themselves. After all, Williams didn't make the movies, he did the scores for them.

Either way, Star Wars gets my vote. Indiana Jones, all three of the movies, ARE indeed excellent, in my opinion, and the decision is damn close for me, as both trilogies are very close to my heart, but Star Wars just has that mythological aspect to them, that special OOMPH, you know? The scores are all just simply amazing and I've heard them entirely outside of the movies in excellent sound quality, which cannot be said at all in regards to the Indy flicks.

[Ricard 2,244]

The scores are all just simply amazing and I've heard them entirely outside of the movies in excellent sound quality, which cannot be said at all in regards to the Indy flicks.

Sad, but true :cry:

[Guest]

Personally, I think ESB is the best of the SW movies, in every sense, score-wise, plotwise, acting wise, production values, special effects, everything, it's all just top notch. And I for one will not complain about it not having a one-shot quality because, dammit, that's just pointless to me. I mean, all the original SW flicks are awesome in my opinion, but ESB takes the cake.  

I think you go over the top here, one can debate about anything, but special effects?

I think the space battle in Jedi is up to this very date(and likely always will be) the most amazing "old-school" special effect sequence of all time(with "old-school" I mean using models, optical effects etc. as opposed to CGI)!

[Elmo Lewis 6]

But what the hell does it matter? C'mon, guys, seriously. Bitching about Empire Strikes Back because it's the middle movie and it can't be watched on it's own, plot-wise, that's something that someone who hasn't seen Return of the Jedi would say. We all damn well KNOW what's going to happen, so why complain about it? For the sake of complaining? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. Personally, I think ESB is the best of the SW movies, in every sense, score-wise, plotwise, acting wise, production values, special effects, everything, it's all just top notch. And I for one will not complain about it not having a one-shot quality because, dammit, that's just pointless to me. I mean, all the original SW flicks are awesome in my opinion, but ESB takes the cake.

Hmmm, are you answering to Morn's post or mine? If it's mine, then I'll agree with you that ESB is years better than either ROTJ or ANH. But in my opinion it isn't a movie on its own -- once you've finished watching it, you have to wait till ROTJ to see what happens, see all the ends being tied, and most importantly, you get whole point of the movie, its meaning, its message. To you that's an unimportant thing, it just isn't to me, nothing wrong with that. ESB is just action that happens to set up ROTJ -- only that action is extremely well told and fascinating in most aspects.

And ANYWAY, I interpreted this poll to be in regards to the scores of the movies, not the movies themselves. After all, Williams didn't make the movies, he did the scores for them.  

Oh, as you can see from my post, I WAS judging the movies, not the scores. If it was the scores, then it all gets more complicated. ESB just beats the living hell out of TOD and Crusade -- but does it beat both scores combined? And then we add ANH to the picture and, and then Raiders, and then there are individual tracks and then, and then the themes, and then --- :?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

all one has to do on this board is look

at the JW Consensus Top 10.

There you will find ESB, Star Wars, and ROTJ all in the top 10.

Only Raiders of the Lost Ark is there.

So a consensus of this board thinks the Star Wars Trilogy to be the best.

[Morn 8]

Blow your own horn.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I just compiled it Morn, the choices were made by the members of this board. I personally had 2 Indy films in my top 10 and only Star Wars in my top 10. But I would chose Star Wars myself because I think nothing in the original Star Wars Trilogy is as weak as Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. To me Star Wars, Raiders, and TOD are all excellent, as is ESB. RotJ is quite good, far superior to LC.

[UCFKevin 0]

Jakster said:

I think you go over the top here, one can debate about anything, but special effects?  

I think the space battle in Jedi is up to this very date(and likely always will be) the most amazing "old-school" special effect sequence of all time(with "old-school" I mean using models, optical effects etc. as opposed to CGI)!

That's a damn good point. I retract what I said regarding the special effects, if just solely based on the Endor space battle...my God, it's still amazing to watch even by today's standards.

Ender said:

But in my opinion it isn't a movie on its own -- once you've finished watching it, you have to wait till ROTJ to see what happens, see all the ends being tied, and most importantly, you get whole point of the movie, its meaning, its message. To you that's an unimportant thing, it just isn't to me, nothing wrong with that. ESB is just action that happens to set up ROTJ -- only that action is extremely well told and fascinating in most aspects.  

But that's something I don't understand. You've seen ROTJ. You know it well, I'm guessing. You know how it all ends. How does that still make it seem like ESB is open ended to you? Like I said before, it's only open ended for people who don't know a damn thing about ROTJ, which is, frankly, nobody here. I guess it's a personal opinion thing that I'll never really get. Oh well.

Oh, as you can see from my post, I WAS judging the movies, not the scores. If it was the scores, then it all gets more complicated.

Nothing wrong with complications. Makes the discussions much more easier. A few of you folks seem to be somewhat afraid of complicated discussions.

Hell, I've never thought about which is the better trilogy, music-wise, until this post, and it is somewhat of a tough call as I said before.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

But that's something I don't understand. You've seen ROTJ. You know it well, I'm guessing. You know how it all ends. How does that still make it seem like ESB is open ended to you? Like I said before, it's only open ended for people who don't know a damn thing about ROTJ, which is, frankly, nobody here. I guess it's a personal opinion thing that I'll never really get. Oh well.

Well, like you said, it's just my opinion. Mind you, I think the film benefits highly from that lack of ending, it makes it even better. But your point seems interesting -- if I already know what happens in ROTJ I don't need to see it. Why then shoud I rewatch any movie? Or finish any movie that I've already seen? I can just stop it at any point because I know the ending. (re-reading this, this may sound harsh, but I don't mean it that way, this is friendly discussion ). The answer, IMO, is that every time you "re" something (re-watch, re-read, re-listen) you see something new in it, according to your very personal circumstances. Every time I try to see something new in ESB, I end up watching ROTJ, because there isn't one without the other. The points introduced in one movie are made in the other.

That's what I mean when I say open ending.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

because the Empire Strkes Back is a singular movie experience, its ending, even though I know what happens in ROTJ, is unsatifying.

In 1980 when I first saw the film, I knew that I would have to wait 3 years to see the conclusion, and even in 1980 I knew that the then unnamed sequel would conclude the saga with a nice ending, with good triumphant over evil. It still didn't make it better.

As I have said many times, as has Neil, only Star Wars is a complete stand alone film, that had it not been the boxoffice hit it was, might have been a singular story as originally expected.

[UCFKevin 0]

Well, to each their own, I suppose.

You guys do make valid points, though, but I still don't fully get it. Ah well.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

beerchug

[UCFKevin 0]

Beer? Bleecch...pass the whiskey!

[Marian Schedenig 8,178]

Mmmm, whiskey.

Marian -

[Guest]

As I have said many times, as has Neil, only Star Wars is a complete stand alone film, that had it not been the boxoffice hit it was, might have been a singular story as originally expected.

I partly agree, but only partly.

Star Wars(or ANH,both is fine with me) is certainly the most stand-alone film of the classic trilogy.

But some scenes are at least kind of "odd", they seem to have no real purpose of their own.

Luke wanting to become a Jedi Knight and trainig with the lightsaber...what was that for?

Or (one of) the main villian(s) escaping, hmm, why did they do that?

I think, Star Wars was very cleverly made, with a possible further story in mind, but seeing the need of the major audience for a conclusion to be a success .

[Morn 8]

because the Empire Strkes Back is a singular movie experience, its ending, even though I know what happens in ROTJ, is unsatifying.

I find the ending quite satisfiying, fulled with notions of friendship. Most of the issues in the movie were wrapped up as much as a movie needs except for Han Solo, it neatly bunches what the next movie is supposed to continue in one package reducing the need to see it but not enough to make it unnecessary. To be honest, I find ROTJ's less satisflying because it doesn't explain anything about something that is one of the bases of the plot, the empire, what happens to the empire. But Lucas was planning on making a sequel to ROTJ eventually.

[UCFKevin 0]

So what do you folks think of the LOTR movies? They don't have any closure whatsoever at the end.

[Morn 8]

Nothing wrong with a 3 part story.

[Lurker 5]

Nothing wrong with a 3 part story.  

Unless the third part is a complete letdown.

Neil

[Morn 8]

Thank god ROTJ was a great movie then. I just hope ROTK will not be a letdown because TTT was to some degree.

[UCFKevin 0]

Yeah, I'm a ROTJ lover, too.

[Justin 2]

Unless the third part is a complete letdown.

Don't you mean the 6th part?

Justin -Who thinks Star Wars is a 6 part story, that can stand alone as a 3 part or even 1 part story.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

SW without question. That music will go down in history as some of the best ever!

[PBL 0]

Unless the third part is a complete letdown.

Don't you mean the 6th part?

Justin -Who thinks Star Wars is a 6 part story, that can stand alone as a 3 part or even 1 part story.

Don't you mean "is a 9 part story" and we'll only see 6 parts of it, unless Lucas does a sequel in 10 years from now, or let enough notes about it so that someone would direct the 3 remaining films...

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Unless the third part is a complete letdown.

Don't you mean the 6th part?

Justin -Who thinks Star Wars is a 6 part story, that can stand alone as a 3 part or even 1 part story.

Don't you mean "is a 9 part story" and we'll only see 6 parts of it, unless Lucas does a sequel in 10 years from now, or let enough notes about it so that someone would direct the 3 remaining films...

Hey there are still reports Lucas plans to do another 3 SW films after Episode III.

I am willing to bet several years from now when Lucasfilm has burned itself into a bigt money hole with bombs like Willow 2, More Radioland Murders, etc. Lucas will suddenly turn around and insist he was misquoted when he said he was only doing 6 SW films.

Question is will JW still want to do 3 more?