#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I didnt have an issue with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Me neither. I loved its usage actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 It's a shame that scores like The Force Awakens get panned to no end while lesser scores like Mad Max: Fury Road are praised to no end. Don't get me wrong, Mad Max is a fair enough and mostly effective score but it doesn't hold a candle to the craft and artistry of The Force Awakens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 As I have commented elsewhere, I found it very jarring, both in the obvious difference in recording quality(that is how obvious it was that I could tell the difference under the sound effects,) but also because it simply sounded starkly different from the Williams writing that surrounded it. Furthermore, I found it ideologically troubling as it further affirms the film's hollow, leaning-on-nostalgia, not-interested-in-anything-novel nature. It reminds me of Tarantino's ironic use of music in a bad way. The film makers would rather just remind viewers of older moments from the OT than try to do anything new or different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Okay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Yes! Though, perhaps I overstated how much it bothered me. Really not that much. But it took away from the experience, rather than improved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I wish the OST had it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Even if it turns out to be tracked from Star Wars (1977)? 3 minutes ago, Taikomochi said: Yes! Though, perhaps I overstated how much it bothered me. Really not that much. But it took away from the experience, rather than improved it. That's because you are a film score fans who knows Star Wars by heart. Joe public doesnt notice or care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Well, yes, but I can still whine about it on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Thankfully yes! We can relate. You can't talk about this amongst "normal" people. Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 What's normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Normal is what everyone else is, but we are not! Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, Quintus said: I wish the OST had it. Why's It's the 1977 recording tracked into the film, not a new recording. 9 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Even if it turns out to be tracked from Star Wars (1977)? It IS tracked from Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 In this particular instance I don't mind that they tracked something in because I personally found the music selection suitable for the moment it underscored (we aren't talking sudden rude Nazgul chants here), and I'd enjoy the track in question on the album better if it played out as it does in the film. I generally prefer film edits where available and as produced by the professional mixers as opposed to album specific cues/presentations which deviate from the version of film I have have seen and sometimes have playing out in my head as I listen to a score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,173 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 It's an awkward edit in the film. I don't need it on CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Hard to tell for me. It sounded fine in the film, but the edit could be awful in an isolated setting (kind of like how I dug the "Ascension Guns" edit into Duel of the Fates in TPM, and only noticed its shakiness on the Ultimate Edition release) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 It sounds fine in the film, probably not on album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I am happy we got Williams' intended music for the scene on the OST. If JJ liked the temp track better, I wish he had Williams record an Insert that evokes the same emotions as the Burning Homestead moment that organically returns to the rest of the original music, instead of tracking in the 1977 recording with a harsh edit back to the new score. Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Do we know for sure its the 77 version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I'm not even convinced it was part of the temp track as the original version on the the ost has more in common with the unused version of the force theme in Empire (during the duel before Yoda's theme is brought in), so it may well have been a late or last minute decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 If I'm not mistaken John Williams doesn't hear the temp track and wouldn't know what's on it unless JJ told him. He scores to a version of the film (or in this case reels at a time) with no music at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Well you must know something we don't because one thing I'm not wrong about is its similarity to the cue I mentioned compared to Burning Homestead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Exactly; JJ obviously liked Burning Homestead better than what JW wrote, but for whatever reason he either didn't ask or there wasn't time for JW to write and record a new version, so they stuck with the temp track instead of using what Williams wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Why wouldn't a composer hear the temp track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Hey Jay, sneaky post edit above man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Why wouldn't a composer hear the temp track? happens all the time! Shore never heard the Hobbit temp tracks either. Of course the composer sits down with the director and they discuss the shape of the music they think is right for the scenes, but what point would the composer listening to the temp track possible serve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Why wouldn't a composer hear the temp track? Because usually temp tracks are not to instruct the composer on what the music should sound like, but rather as a stand in for the editor/sound editor/test audiences/etc. to get a better feel of what the film will function like with music. But of course there are plenty of instances when the composers are instructed by the temp track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Yeah, there are many composers that use and listen to the temp track, usually to understand the tone and rhythmical/pacing desires of the director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Indeed! Very often composers are expected to follow temp tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Yeah, a temp track doesn't have to be this big evil thing, the problem as we're all aware is when a director falls in love with a track and handcuffs the composer's creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Every director and composer has a different process. Sometimes the composer watches the film with the temp track in place, sometimes they don't. Some directors don't even use temp tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,301 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I like it when they come up when something cooler than the temp track. Like the end credits of Priest that were temptracked with The Dark Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,903 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 55 minutes ago, steb74 said: Yeah, a temp track doesn't have to be this big evil thing, the problem as we're all aware is when a director falls in love with a track and handcuffs the composer's creativity. Generally, the temp track is a communication tool. There are times where the director does NOT like what is in the temp and it is equally valuable to hear what they don't want as it is to hear what is working for them in the temp...this is all part of the spotting sessions. There is so much ambiguity when working on a score so anything that reduces the ambiguity is welcome. As long as the composer understands it is ultimately the director's vision they are supporting, I have always found directors to be willing to hear a different approach. Generally speaking, I find they love to hear opinions from other professionals but are still the ultimate decider. I like how Harrison Ford put it in an interview (I forget which one) but if he has a better idea for the character he's playing (say that Han Solo says "I know" instead of "I love you too" to Leia) if the director likes his idea, they go for it. If not, he does what the director wants...it's ultimately a collaborative process and the temp should only be regarded as a conduit. Composers are good at ignoring temp if it isn't the right fit for the scene. steb74 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 So did the Burning Homestead version replace the other big new (but unrousing) statement of the Force theme then? The one we actually seen Williams recording in the 60 Mins documentary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Presumably it replaced the version that opens The Ways Of The Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 22 minutes ago, Quintus said: So did the Burning Homestead version replace the other big new (but unrousing) statement of the Force theme then? The one we actually seen Williams recording in the 60 Mins documentary? No. Williams' intended music for the scene can be heard on the OST from 0:00-0-45 of "The Ways of The Force". Specifically, the tracked bit replaces 0:12-0:34 IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 That's what I said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I never said that you didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 33 minutes ago, Quintus said: So did the Burning Homestead version replace the other big new (but unrousing) statement of the Force theme then? The one we actually seen Williams recording in the 60 Mins documentary? That version is at about 2:40 in The Ways Of The Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Right, that is used when they are fighting later. Burning Homestead replaced when she Force Pulls the saber to her when Ren is trying to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,173 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 4 hours ago, Stefancos said: It sounds fine in the film, probably not on album. It sounded fine for me when I saw the film the first time, but really clumsy the second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The unsettled flute(?) which compliments the theme in this arrangement make it really work, IMO. Dastardly tracking methods accepted, Abrams couldn't have picked a better statement of the Force theme to use in that moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Blessed be The Abrams! Hallowed be thy name! *repeats obsessively* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 "Easily John Williams' worst score to date. Besides Rey's theme and a few notes from Kylo's theme, the soundtrack is completely forgettable and not memorable at all, which is such a shameful disservice to Star Wars. Even the prequel films had memorable and fun tracks that haters even enjoyed. To make matters worse, due to some time constraints or something, this is the first Star Wars score not done by the London Symphony Orchestra, which is a problem. The main theme sounds really off and distracted me while I was watching the film. It's overall, one of John Williams' most underwhelming and worst scores ever written and composed. I love you John, but you messed up... I know he's old, but this is just sad. The trailer music was better. " A review on Amazon. 1 out of 5 stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 What's the reason again you people are quick to dwell on these random internet wilderness reactions again? Blimey, get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Amazon reviews and YouTube comments. Bollocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Just baffling how much hate this score is getting, I don't think I have ever seen a Williams score getting this much hate/dislikes before. I just find it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 It's the interweb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 17 minutes ago, Quintus said: What's the reason again you people are quick to dwell on these random internet wilderness reactions again? Blimey, get over it. Because these are the fucks that the suits in Hollywood actually listen to! Arpy and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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