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The Thematic Material of the Star Wars Saga (Possible Community Project?)

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On 1/19/2016 at 5:17 PM, Henry Buck said:

The fanfare at the beginning of the FYC version of "Snoke" and the fanfare for the reveal of the star destroyer (Main Title and the Attack on the Jakku Village @ 1:35): pretty much the same, yeah? Some sort of First Order fanfare? It also seems like the low string figure at 4:12 in the end credits has something to do with this motif.

 

I think they both appear on strings at 1:11 in FYC The Attack on Jakku Village Part 1, the 'low string figure' from the end credits (and the 60 Minutes segment) followed by the 'Starkiller fanfare'.

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On January 22, 2016 at 11:54 PM, DominicCobb said:

I'm pretty sure BB-8 has a motif. 0:39 on Rey Meets BB-8. 0:07 on Follow Me. 1:57, 2:47 and 3:07 on Han and Leia. 2:05 on Farewell and the Trip.

Hmm. Is this a motif for BB-8 or for the map to Skywalker? It seems definitely like BB-8, but the one thing that keeps nagging at me is it's similarity to The Jedi Steps. And I just realized now that the motif is in The Attack on Jakku at 1:10, when the map is handed over to Poe (and BB-8 is not present), which would suggest it is, in fact, for the map. Of course, the reason it's hard to know is many of its statements could conceivably be for either the map or BB-8 (for obvious reasons), but the thing that's tripping me up are the moments where it doesn't make sense as a map motif, just a BB-8 motif (such as when BB-8 reunites with Poe). Also there are moments that have more to do with the map that don't have the motif (when it's first projected on the Falcon, for instance). So... I don't know really. Still, a nice motif!

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Another moment that I consider to fall into the 'Imperial March (Hidden at Cloud City Variation)' is during the beginning of 'Lando's Palace', although here it's mixed into the cue rhythmically rather than it's own kind of self contained presentation like the others mentioned.

 

It's starts at about 14 seconds in after the melody finishes its phrase, I was always interested in the rhythmical activity in that space and realised it was basically the Imperial March ostinato, you can hear it with the violas.

It's difficult to hear and it can be more obvious or less obvious depending on which version you listen to.

 

There is dialogue over it in the movie so it's basically impossible to hear but I still love the idea of Williams hiding Vader inside Cloud City right from the start and also no doubt as to why the timpani material prior to that was unused as it gives it away too easy.

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Not sure what you mean by 'if true' sorry man.

 

It's true that there is a rhythmical figure there and that it shares similarities with the main Imperial March ostinato, just like the a huge portion of all the Imperial related music in the score only ever play variations or developments of IM ostinato and not necessarily just the basic figure we're accustomed to from the concert version.

 

So it's true that it's there .....because it's there to hear, the question is whether we think Williams would drop it in there dramatically? ....for musical humour?

Either way, does it make sense that Williams would hide a variation of Vader's theme in Cloud City?

Well I can only answer for myself but that fact that Vader is hiding in Cloud City .....well I'm all in and saying yes, absolutely!

 

The SW scores are dripping with things like this and are probably not even meant to be thought about as such and are really there to be absorbed unconsciously, with the hope that there is an inevitable sense of unity throughout the whole score.

 

I suppose uncovering these things after the fact, for those who want to dig a little deeper just helps to see why there is such unity there and can help one to come to there own conclusions as to the dramatic intentions of the music.

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Absolutely no offense taken at all, I just wanted to expanded upon my original post with regards to 'if true'.

There's no need to be a prick about it with your 'Geez' ....

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So does the Resistance March actually disappear from the score just a couple minutes after it's introduced? It's a little strange that this boisterous new theme isn't included in the Starkiller battle, although I think Scherzo for X-Wings is fine as it is.

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couple minutes?  It's used in the "Informants" cue, then when they show up on Takodana to save the day, then when everyone reunites at their based, then during the briefing, then when they're getting ready to go to war..... not bad.

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I would guess that Williams wrote some versions of end battle music that had the march in it, but they got replaced with revised cues.  If that ground assault sequence was score,d it was probably used in that cue too

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Probably has already been mentioned but I feel that the tiny bit of music that plays when Rey is hanging over the edge within the base and Stormtroopers pass above her is meant to be reminiscent of the music that plays during the shot in ANH where Ben Kenobi is hiding behind the tractor beam as Stormtroopers are passing by him. Not sure this is the right place to post this notion but just something I noticed.

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20 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

I took it as Stiff's way of saying "Go fuck a pig, man!", which, to some, may sound insulting.

 

Geez man!

3 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

And I agree with Henry: it should have appeared during the final battle. Feels odd it doesn't.

 

I think most audiences would have found the theme much more memorable if they heard it threaded throughout that final battle in place of the Scherzo cue.  You can't hear much of anything except sound effects anyway, but it would have been cool to hear the Resistance theme and the "Star Wars" theme played off each other during that entire battle.

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What do you guys think about the Dies Irae notes being in Rey's theme?  You can hear it at 0:14 (and any other time where that section of the theme is repeated) in the track "Rey's Theme" on the soundtrack album.  They aren't the top notes but the inner notes of the chords. Intentional or just a coincidence?

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I've kind of fallen in love with the short little motif for the map/Luke is missing in TFA. I mean the short phrase that is extracted from Jedi Steps and appears when Rey meets BB8 and later when they complete the map. It's just a mysterious little phrase that inserts itself. It's funny for some reason. 

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I imagine we'll hear a lot more of the Resistance March in VIII. It is sort of strange that we didn't hear any in the final battle though it feels like there was a lot cut out (obviously the ground assault but also I'd wager a good amount of the X-Wing stuff - consider the bit before the Scherzo starts with the tracked portion from the Attack on Jakku, isn't it possible that that part of the scene was originally longer and had its own cue?). Scherzo is weird because it's such a fun cue but only plays for about a minute in the film proper, and utilizes the main theme when it could probably just as easily used the Resistance March or Poe's theme. I love it but, you have to wonder what it could have been.

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On 1/27/2016 at 8:20 PM, steb74 said:

Another moment that I consider to fall into the 'Imperial March (Hidden at Cloud City Variation)' is during the beginning of 'Lando's Palace', although here it's mixed into the cue rhythmically rather than it's own kind of self contained presentation like the others mentioned.

 

It's starts at about 14 seconds in after the melody finishes its phrase, I was always interested in the rhythmical activity in that space and realised it was basically the Imperial March ostinato, you can hear it with the violas.

It's difficult to hear and it can be more obvious or less obvious depending on which version you listen to.

 

There is dialogue over it in the movie so it's basically impossible to hear but I still love the idea of Williams hiding Vader inside Cloud City right from the start and also no doubt as to why the timpani material prior to that was unused as it gives it away too easy.

 

At what time stamp?

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I doubt Scherzo for X-Wings was ever intended to appear intact in the finale, unless there's an alternate version from the earlier sessions. The album version seems to be from the October sessions, judging from the 60 Minutes footage.

 

Just as the concert version of Duel of the Fates wasn't intended to appear uncut in the final film, only in fragments. That finale was stylistically designed to be that way; they could only diminish the effects of it.

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They probably realised the aerial assault was less interesting than Rey and Kylo's fight; that's the emotional climax of the film after Solo's death.

 

It's akin to Luke's confrontation with the Emperor and Vader in Jedi being more engaging than the concurrent space battle.

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11 minutes ago, crumbs said:

They probably realised the aerial assault was less interesting than Rey and Kylo's fight; that's the emotional climax of the film after Solo's death.

 

It's akin to Luke's confrontation with the Emperor and Vader in Jedi being more engaging than the concurrent space battle.

While that's true, the space battle in ROTJ was awesome and arguably the best in all of SW. Like the Trench Run in ANH, the big space battle in ROTJ is visually clear and has a clear progression as well. The choppy Xwing in TFA is almost incoherent. There's a short glimpse of a trench run like scene but the rest is flying in circles and Poe flying around what looks like a very small interior space. The music is barely audible but really the whole Xwing battle is just not very good. 

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No disagreements there. Abrams was refreshingly restrained with his cinematography throughout the film but the geography of the climax is a bit of a mess.

 

There's no real flow from shot to shot and the intercutting with the lightsaber battle is jarring. Drowning out the music with sound effects didn't help (but I guess we're all biased like that!)

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Probably mentioned in another thread when the TFA score was released, but ust in case, is anyone else jarred by the shortening of the rebel fanfare in the intro of the end credits? All six films had the same music up to that point, and the TFA version sounds edited without it.

 

 

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On ‎29‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 8:00 PM, Figrin D'aniel said:

What do you guys think about the Dies Irae notes being in Rey's theme?  You can hear it at 0:14 (and any other time where that section of the theme is repeated) in the track "Rey's Theme" on the soundtrack album.  They aren't the top notes but the inner notes of the chords. Intentional or just a coincidence?

Dies irae is quoted so frequently, with purpose, that I find it hard to imagine it was a total coincidence. At the very very least, he only noticed the similarity after writing it, and decided to keep it - there's no way that could have escaped his notice.

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5 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Probably mentioned in another thread when the TFA score was released, but ust in case, is anyone else jarred by the shortening of the rebel fanfare in the intro of the end credits? All six films had the same music up to that point, and the TFA version sounds edited without it.

 

 

 

All the various abridgings sadden me a little, yet the "complete" original borders on overbearing, so I'm really just not sure what I want. :P

 

What really bugs me about the start of the TFA credits is the trombones' performance of the main theme. In the past, that moment has been bold and brassy...here, it's kinda weak. The trombones in this score are otherwise fantastic, so I really wonder what happened here.

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i dont know... the end credits sound like the album edit of the main title in the SW ost from 1977...

 

I was also shocked by the absence of a new opening fanfare for the film. Sad.

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Yes I really don't get why they didn't have Williams compose something for the Lucasfilm logo

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6 hours ago, Jay said:

Yes I really don't get why they didn't have Williams compose something for the Lucasfilm logo

 

While I'm always happy to hear more Williams music - and I really love great logo music, actually - I thought the silent treatment worked well. Anything Williams wrote would have been instantly compared to the iconic, superlative Newman fanfare, anyhow. :P

 

Of course, the preferred route would have just included the Fox logo, but obviously that wasn't going to happen.

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