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The Force Awakens ALBUM Discussion (No Film Spoilers)


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That's something I have considered.  In the prequels, Williams was compensating.  Now he is supporting.

The only thing Plagious was truly afraid of was losing his hair. Which eventually of course he did. Ironic, he could save the hair of those he cared about, but not his own.

4 hours ago, Sharky said:

When people are talking about the parallel to the Darth Plaguieus chorale in ROTS, do they mean the second half of Snoke's theme, the bit harmonized in thirds? Db/E->C/Eb->D/F#->C/Eb.

 

I think it's just the overall similarity in texture. Most people expected The Emperor's Theme V2.0 for Snoke, but it ended up more reminiscent of the nondescript deep male chorus at the start of Palpatine's Teachings.

 

As far as I know, no one's ever pressed Williams about this specific moment in ROTS, and what the short motif starting at 0:20 represents:

 

Is it specifically for Plageuis? A more general 'Seduction of the Sith' theme? I did notice a vague similarity of this passage to an eerily similar scene in ROTJ where the Emperor seduces Luke with the dark side, but most here considered it unintentional. 

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For me it was the whole 

 

Spoiler

giant thing. Of course I was hoping to all hope that he was a hologram, so when he disappeared there was a sigh of relief that he was. But after the whole realism of the first act being such great practical effects and all based on grounding it in reality, to then have a giant CGI character in your face made it too jarring for me. I was hoping Snoke would be Serkis himself, so when he was revealed as performance capture character in production, I was already disappointed before seeing it, then when I saw Snoke I didn't understand what they were trying to accomplish. His design is boring and unoriginal, very similar to the Gollum/Voldemort look of villains today, and he's completely humanoid. Serkis could have EASILY played it with a bit of make-up. Either cast a physical actor to play him or make him so crazy looking that it has to be CGI. Don't just cast a brilliant physical and emotional actor, for him to them play a bland, seated, human looking villain. Sloppy idea. Even Maz could have been a puppet. Yoda spoke, emoted, and drew us in more as a puppet than he ever did as CGI. 

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From a visual effects standpoint, both characters were disappointing departures from the practical-effects-only philosophy Abrams kept talking about. Same goes for Simon Peggs' CG face. Just doesn't look real. Puppetry, prosthetics, and animatronics may have some real limitations in what they can do, and they may cost a lot of time and effort and money, but at least you invariably end up with something that looks real, like it was physically there on the set.

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51 minutes ago, Jay said:

Maz looked super real. Snoke looked super fake.

 

CGI is a tool like any other that can be used well or poorly.

 

I would at least agree that Maz looked better than Snoke. But I could never fully believe that she was an actual physical being who was there in the same environment as the characters. That's just really tough to accomplish with an organic humanoid being. Davy Jones is one of the very few instances I've found convincing.

 

You're absolutely right that CG is nothing more than a tool. I've seen a lot of fantastic uses of it, even just within this film. But when it comes to creating animals with appearance and (especially) motion that are indistinguishable from the real thing...well, our brains are unfortunately really good at picking up on even the most subtle differences. We have billions of years of evolution to thank for that.

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I think the only CGI character I've seen that interacted with real actors perfectly, and that I didn't care one bit about being CGI, was Paul the alien. Flawless design, flawless effects, flawless integration into the real world, and the comedic writing combined with Seth Rogen giving him a personality, I was totally convinced.

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4 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

I think the only CGI character I've seen that interacted with real actors perfectly, and that I didn't care one bit about being CGI, was Paul the alien. Flawless design, flawless effects, flawless integration into the real world, and the comedic writing combined with Seth Rogen giving him a personality, I was totally convinced.

If only Williams had scored that film as originally intended... 

 

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9 minutes ago, Mr. Big said:

If only Williams had scored that film as originally intended... 

 

 

Arnold does a kick ass tribute to Williams in the finale.

 

I mean come on Hollywoodland! He wrote this for a comedy film about a stoner alien named Paul.

 

 

 

Arnold is so underutilised that it hurts my mind palace. Someone needs to get him back into big fantasy and sci-fi films asap.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

Arnold does a kick ass tribute to Williams in the finale.

 

I mean come on Hollywoodland! He wrote this for a comedy film about a stoner alien named Paul.

 

 

 

Arnold is so underutilised that it hurts my mind palace. Someone needs to get him back into big fantasy and sci-fi films asap.

 

 

 

Hey, that was good.  What do you guys think of Aaron Zigman's Escape from Planet Earth?  Very Williamsy:

 

 

 

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So,I have a general question for everyone:

 

Are there microedits that bother anyone?  It seems like there are quite a few microedits, but are there any that people are actually put off by, either because of good material missing or the edits themselves being jarring? I haven't found any that I thought actually disrupted the flow of the music.

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Everybody thinks Sknoke is Plagueis because of the music.

 

Last week, I listened a soundtrack of John Williams, not a Star Wars one, and there was a similar cue with male voices.  It seems a recurrent pattern or a trick John Williams already used after or before ROTS for a threatening effect.

 

But I don't recall in which soundtrack I heard that cue, maybe "War of Worlds"?

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3 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

So,I have a general question for everyone:

 

Are there microedits that bother anyone?  It seems like there are quite a few microedits, but are there any that people are actually put off by, either because of good material missing or the edits themselves being jarring? I haven't found any that I thought actually disrupted the flow of the music.

 

There's one edit - at least I think it's an edit - that sounds very jarring to me. It's near the beginning of "The Ways of the Force", right before the unused statement of the Force theme. I don't know what they would have edited out there, since it matches up with the film, but it doesn't sound right.

 

A detailed comparison with the FYC reveals a multitude of so-called microedits, none of which omit anything truly essential, but I still prefer the full-length original cues. Or at least, as close as we can currently get to them.

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Just now, Datameister said:

There's one edit - at least I think it's an edit - that sounds very jarring to me. It's near the beginning of "The Ways of the Force", right before the unused statement of the Force theme. I don't know what they would have edited out there, since it matches up with the film, but it doesn't sound right.

 

I agree that that one does sound awkward, but since I don't see where any material could have been edited out, I suppose it doesn't bother me.

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On 12/16/2015 at 5:55 AM, Stefancos said:

It's such a pity this wasnt done by the LSO. You can hear the incompetent oafs in Hollywood stuggling to play this. Some of them sound like they dont even have thumbs!

 

Don't be ridiculous. The studio musicians in Hollywood are some of the best in the world. Not many professional symphony orchestra players could do what they do on a regular basis. Many cues/scores are sight-read and recorded on the first take with no rehearsal.

 

On the other hand, even the vaunted London Symphony has had its screw-ups. There are so many split notes in the French horns in New Hope's "TIE Fighter Attack", I'm amazed to this day that Williams let that take stand without doing it again. And at 3:57 in Last Crusade's "Belly of the Steel Beast", the trumpets are so flat in makes me cringe every time I hear it.

 

Every performance of every score has it's minor flubs, no matter the orchestra playing it. People aren't computers and don't deliver perfect performances. Thank god.

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6 hours ago, Mr. Big said:

 

This might be a stretch but I'm hearing Kylo Ren's theme at 2:59-3:06 of Main Title & Attack on Jakku

 

 

Yes, you're right. It's like a calmer distortion of the theme, based on its main line, but changing the notes conveniently to create the appropriate mood. Williams does this same distortion in the "happy fanfare" in Farewell and the Trip, where he uses the introduction motif of Rey's Theme, but altering the notes as he sees fit.

 

The more we find out about these little details, the greater is my consideration for this excellent score.

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I am wondering how this soundtrack would have been released in 1983, in the times of 40 something soundtrack albums. Perhaps something like:

 

Side A

Main Title and the Attack on the Jakku Village (6:25)

Rey's Theme (3:11)

March of the Resistance (2:35)

Snoke (2:03)

I Can Fly Anything (3:11)

The Starkiller (1:51)

Han and Leia (4:41)

 

Side B

Scherzo for X-Wings (2:32)

Torn Apart (4:19)

Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle (2:01)

The Ways of the Force (3:15)

Farewell And The Trip (4:55)

The Jedi Steps and Finale (8:51)

 

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I'd toss out Snoke. Zzzzzzzz!

 

My preferred 42 minute list is:

 

1. Main Title and the Attack on the Jakku Village

2. Rey's Theme 

3. March of the Resistance

4. The Falcon 

5. The Starkiller 

6. Han and Leia

7. Scherzo for X-Wings

8. The Ways of the Force 

9. Farewell and the Trip 

10. The Jedi Steps and Finale

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To clarify:  I did not make a list of the best tracks, but tried to imagine how an album of this length might have been produced. As we know, not always the best tracks are included, because of other considerations like variety etc., but also reprise of known themes.

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59 minutes ago, Drax said:

I'd toss out Snoke. Zzzzzzzz!

 

My preferred 42 minute list is:

 

1. Main Title and the Attack on the Jakku Village

2. Rey's Theme 

3. March of the Resistance

4. The Falcon 

5. The Starkiller 

6. Han and Leia

7. Scherzo for X-Wings

8. The Ways of the Force 

9. Farewell and the Trip 

10. The Jedi Steps and Finale

The 77 minute original soundtrack album is the way John Williams intended this music to be heard! How dare you to undermine his efforts by producing some 40+ minute programme!! Please respect the intentions of the composer!

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51 minutes ago, Gistech said:

Yeah, who do you think you are? Varese Sarabande? :P

 

Well I could shave it down to 30 minutes.

 

55 minutes ago, Incanus said:

The 77 minute original soundtrack album is the way John Williams intended this music to be heard! How dare you to undermine his efforts by producing some 40+ minute programme!! Please respect the intentions of the composer!

 

As opposed to everyone else who wants the composer's intended album length expanded to complete and chronological?!

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8 minutes ago, Drax said:

As opposed to everyone else who wants the composer's intended album length expanded to complete and chronological?!

 

Well, that scenario is totally different because we know better than John Williams does, but only when it comes to complete scores!

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