The Force Awakens The Force Awakens SCORE Discussion (Film Spoilers Allowed)

[mrbellamy 6,272]

I expect all those questions answered when you see it tomorrow! You're on deck, BB!

[Lewya 360]

Full lyrics for Snoke's Theme pls. U wrote them down I hope?

[Ricard 2,242]

Going to bed now, but I tried to answer some of these questions without spoiling anything.

Tomorrow, many of you are going to see it. It will be interesting to see if some of my observations here will be corrected (I'm sure they will), or if people feel totally different about the score. Exciting!

You can't go to bed now! Too many questions left unanswered!

Does the droids' motif appear in the film? Does Jabba's theme appear in the film? Does Yoda's theme appear in the film? Does Kylo Ren's theme has similarities with the Imperial March? Does Hux has a theme? Does Phasma has a theme? Does Poe has a theme? Does BB8 have one? Does Finn's theme sound hip and cool? Why doesn't Hux have a theme? And why does Phasma's theme sounds so similar to Boba Fett's motif? How long is the fugue you mentioned? Is the Scherzo for X-Wings really awesome or just OK? If you were to be stranded on a desert island and you could only bring one score with you, would it be TFA? If not, does that mean it sucks? If it doesn't suck, then why wouldn't you bring it with you on the island? You're not making any sense! Stop lying! Tell us the truth!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Going to bed now, but I tried to answer some of these questions without spoiling anything.

Tomorrow, many of you are going to see it. It will be interesting to see if some of my observations here will be corrected (I'm sure they will), or if people feel totally different about the score. Exciting!

You can't go to bed now! Too many questions left unanswered!

Does the droids' motif appear in the film? Does Jabba's theme appear in the film? Does Yoda's theme appear in the film? Does Kylo Ren's theme has similarities with the Imperial March? Does Hux has a theme? Does Phasma has a theme? Does Poe has a theme? Does BB8 have one? Does Finn's theme sound hip and cool? Why doesn't Hux have a theme? And why does Phasma's theme sounds so similar to Boba Fett's motif? How long is the fugue you mentioned? Is the Scherzo for X-Wings really awesome or just OK? If you were to be stranded on a desert island and you could only bring one score with you, would it be TFA? If not, does that mean it sucks? If it doesn't suck, then why wouldn't you bring it with you on the island? You're not making any sense! Stop lying! Tell us the truth!

What does God need with a starship? Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God? Why is God angry?

[Damien F 1,742]

This may be a silly question, but was the music from the official trailer (the special rendition of han and leia's theme, the force theme etc.) in the movie?

No, not that I can recall. But there were some other neat versions of the "Force" theme. Especially one showdown scene in the third act of the movie.

I forgot to ask, do we get to hear Han and Leias theme on choir? Or the Force Theme?

Nope.

God I hope that showdown force cue is on the OST!

[Muad'Dib 1,800]

What does God need with a starship? Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God? Why is God angry?

Finally, a Star Trek reference I understand!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[WilliamHorne97 16]

Tomorrow I will be seeing the movie. Tomorrow you will know all If you want to know all ;P

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Going to bed now, but I tried to answer some of these questions without spoiling anything.

Tomorrow, many of you are going to see it. It will be interesting to see if some of my observations here will be corrected (I'm sure they will), or if people feel totally different about the score. Exciting!

You can't go to bed now! Too many questions left unanswered!

Does the droids' motif appear in the film? Does Jabba's theme appear in the film? Does Yoda's theme appear in the film? Does Kylo Ren's theme has similarities with the Imperial March? Does Hux has a theme? Does Phasma has a theme? Does Poe has a theme? Does BB8 have one? Does Finn's theme sound hip and cool? Why doesn't Hux have a theme? And why does Phasma's theme sounds so similar to Boba Fett's motif? How long is the fugue you mentioned? Is the Scherzo for X-Wings really awesome or just OK? If you were to be stranded on a desert island and you could only bring one score with you, would it be TFA? If not, does that mean it sucks? If it doesn't suck, then why wouldn't you bring it with you on the island? You're not making any sense! Stop lying! Tell us the truth!

What does God need with a starship? Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God? Why is God angry?

Don't wait for the translation! Answer me now!

[Will Tasker 21]

I would like to thank Thor for all his insight in this thread.

I'd also like to thank the people who made that Star Trek V joke because I love Star Trek V.

The rest of you are okay, I guess.

[WilliamHorne97 16]

I'm just glad we are getting a good star wars movie again

[Will 2,215]

So the Lucasfilm logo really just plays SILENTLY, with no music at all?

What's your source? Did Thor say that?

[Unofficial But True 39]

Correct me on this, but isn't "The Immolation Scene" from ROTS just Anakin's Theme trying to "form" and failing?

Maybe you're right, but not obvious to my ear - I just listen to it and I struggle to find a connection

Quote

I think there is writing on this film that harkens back to the OT

I would much rather listen to TFA than any of the prequel scores.

[WilliamHorne97 16]

Can someone tell me if the score in this movie is like the OT. Is there heart pounding moments like ' The asteroid field' or is it more emotional slow themes. And please for the love of god don't be like the kotcs soundtrack where its nothing but 'raiders march' and boring same old, same old motifs.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

So the Lucasfilm logo really just plays SILENTLY, with no music at all?

What's your source? Did Thor say that?

Yes.

[TownerFan 4,983]

SPOILERS!!

You have been warned.

Saw the film tonight. I didn't like it, sorry. Its a big letdown. It's essentially a remake of ANH to the point it really reprises most (if not all!) of its story beats and plot elements, adding a few other plot turns from both TESB and ROTJ. Abrams pulled another "Into Darkness" here and I can see already a lot of fans being both exhilarated OR disappointed. Anyway, this is gonna be a loooooong debate among fans, so I'll leave it there.

Okay, let's talk about JW. The music is great of course, because it's JW writing in his usual SW mode, but keep this in mind: this is much more in line with the prequels than the OT. It's a natural extension of SW music from where JW left the discourse in 2005. So keep this in mind if you're reading it before hearing or seeing anything.

Here's a few ramblings about it, given the fact I listened to it for the first time within the film itself. I'm writing all this fresh from my memory, so I can definitely be wrong or inaccurate about a few things:

- The new themes are all good, but imho they aren't let to shine and develop much because the narrative is so disjointed and quick that JW cannot do more than underscore the simple action, very much like he did in the prequels. Every scene is a set-up for the next one, hence there isn't much time to develop a leitmotiv-driven approach.

- Rey's Theme is probably the major new theme and it gets some REALLY lovely statements in the introductory sequence for the character, with some unusual orchestration for the SW music universe. Flute is the key instrument of the character.

- Kylo Ren's theme is more a motif than an actual long developed theme, but you can surely recognize it by the end of the film.

- Finn and Poe seem to share a sort of heroic thematic figure, related more to the first character than the second. But it sounds very nice and exciting.

- The choral music for Snoke sounded like an extension of "Palpatine's Teachings" from Episode 3. Very low writing for men's choir.

- The march of the Resistance reminded me a lot of another martial/heroic JW theme, but I didn't have the time to grasp which one in particular. This theme does get an extensive workout during the end credits suite.

- Concerning the old themes, you get quotes of Luke's Theme (a very clear and lovely quote in one of the early sequences when Finn and Poe escape the First Order), the Force Theme (a lot of that all throughout the film), Rebel Fanfare (mostly with sequences concerning the Falcon), Leia's Theme, Han & Leia love theme, Vader's theme (just one brief quote exactly when you expect) and of course the main/end title fanfare.

- There are at least a couple of verbatim quote from the original trilogy: the first one is a direct quote of Han and Leia love theme when they first meet (from TESB, I think it's the beginning of the cue named "Betrayal at Bespin" in the Special Edition) and the other is a blatant (and very distracting for me, it seems almost tracked) of "Burning Homestead" (i.e. when Luke finds the corpses of Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen) during a key moment of the final duel between Rey and Kylo.

- The theme heard in the ABC 60 sec TV spot is at the very end of the film and it's really a variation of Rey's Theme combined with Luke's theme (and it makes sense given what we're seeing). It's probably the single moment where the music really shines the most in the film, imho.

- While the music is given a pretty generous mix overall, a lot of the action music (and there's quite a lot of it) gets drowned by very loud sound FX to the point I asked myself if this style of contemporary filmmaking really can still bear the complex writing/orchestrations of Williams. He still writes within his very own style and didn't change any of it. There's nothing streamlined or "zimmerified" in it. I really admire he still has the guts of proposing this kind of very busy, intricate and complex action music to directors and producers. "Scherzo for X-Wings" will probably play A LOT better on the album than in the film, because everything is just too loud in that sequence.

- Overall, I think it's a very good score, but I think you can appreciate a lot more of its subtleties when heard on its own in the album, very much like the prequels. At this very moment, I would put it just a notch under ROTS (the prequel score I like the most), above TPM and AOTC.

[TownerFan 4,983]

So the Lucasfilm logo really just plays SILENTLY, with no music at all?

What's your source? Did Thor say that?

Yes, it does plays silently (and NO Disney castle before it).

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

SPOILERS!!

You have been warned.

- There are at least a couple of verbatim quote from the original trilogy: the first one is a direct quote of Han and Leia love theme when they first meet (from TESB, I think it's the beginning of the cue named "Betrayal at Bespin" in the Special Edition) and the other is a blatant (and very distracting for me, it seems almost tracked) of "Burning Homestead" (i.e. when Luke finds the corpses of Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen) during a key moment of the final duel between Rey and Kylo.

That might explain the absence of the operatic cantilena.

[Will Tasker 21]

Townerfan: I am both exceedingly pleased and let down by your review, as it was as I feared.

Just a quick question: The Jedi Steps cue - in the film, does it have any musical connection to the Throne Room cue from ANH?

[Unofficial But True 39]

SPOILERS!!

You have been warned.

You killed me..., because I can feel you're right

[TownerFan 4,983]

SPOILERS!!

You have been warned.

- There are at least a couple of verbatim quote from the original trilogy: the first one is a direct quote of Han and Leia love theme when they first meet (from TESB, I think it's the beginning of the cue named "Betrayal at Bespin" in the Special Edition) and the other is a blatant (and very distracting for me, it seems almost tracked) of "Burning Homestead" (i.e. when Luke finds the corpses of Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen) during a key moment of the final duel between Rey and Kylo.

That might explain the absence of the operatic cantilena.

I dunno. Most of those reports sound now like pure bogus given what I heard in the film, unless JW recorded an entire different score in June

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

SPOILERS!!

You have been warned.

- There are at least a couple of verbatim quote from the original trilogy: the first one is a direct quote of Han and Leia love theme when they first meet (from TESB, I think it's the beginning of the cue named "Betrayal at Bespin" in the Special Edition) and the other is a blatant (and very distracting for me, it seems almost tracked) of "Burning Homestead" (i.e. when Luke finds the corpses of Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen) during a key moment of the final duel between Rey and Kylo.

That might explain the absence of the operatic cantilena.

I dunno. Most of those reports sound now like pure bogus given what I heard in the film, unless JW recorded an entire different score in June

Damn, Those rumors were incredibly enticing.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Townerfan: I am both exceedingly pleased and let down by your review, as it was as I feared.

Just a quick question: The Jedi Steps cue - in the film, does it have any musical connection to the Throne Room cue from ANH?

Not at all. It reprises almost verbatim the final Force Theme statement as heard in the very final cue of ROTS.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Townerfan: I am both exceedingly pleased and let down by your review, as it was as I feared.

Just a quick question: The Jedi Steps cue - in the film, does it have any musical connection to the Throne Room cue from ANH?

Not at all. It reprises almost verbatim the final Force Theme statement as heard in the very final cue of ROTS.

Is this before or after the end credits start?

[TownerFan 4,983]

Townerfan: I am both exceedingly pleased and let down by your review, as it was as I feared.

Just a quick question: The Jedi Steps cue - in the film, does it have any musical connection to the Throne Room cue from ANH?

Not at all. It reprises almost verbatim the final Force Theme statement as heard in the very final cue of ROTS.

Is this before or after the end credits start?

Just before the end credits start.

[crumbs 14,300]

Please refrain from indicating what theme renditions occur at key points in the film. It's easily construed as a spoiler.

Keep that specific stuff in the spoiler thread please.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Just before the end credits start.

Shit. I was really looking forward to what Williams was going to come up with for that scene. I wonder if he was pressured to reuse it...

[Will Tasker 21]

Please refrain from indicating what theme renditions occur at key points in the film. It's easily construed as a spoiler.

Keep that specific stuff in the spoiler thread please.

That was entirely my fault, my apologies.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Another thing: given the tracklist, I'm sure we'll get most of the true highlights in the OST already.

Just before the end credits start.

Shit. I was really looking forward to what Williams was going to come up with for that scene. I wonder if he was pressured to reuse it...

Overall, I think the finale is really one of the true highlights of the entire score

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Another thing: given the tracklist, I'm sure we'll get most of the true highlights in the OST already.

Just before the end credits start.

Shit. I was really looking forward to what Williams was going to come up with for that scene. I wonder if he was pressured to reuse it...

Overall, I think the finale is really one of the true highlights of the entire score

Does it also have that awkward transition to the end credits that ROTS has?

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

So it looks like the score and film are shaping up to be a disappointment.

[Balahkay 627]

Maybe the general American audience will have a different opinion? I haven't heard or seen the score and film yet, but if people are expecting the OT in any way shape or form, they are going to be disappointed. Especially in regards to the score... those years are long gone. That's not to say Williams still doesn't write excellent music... it's just... different than his OT years.

[TownerFan 4,983]

The film is disappointing for me, imho. But I can't wait to hear the score properly on CD to get most of its subtleties.

[King Mark 3,625]

So it looks like the score and film are shaping up to be a disappointment.

has there been more negative tweets since this morning?

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

So it looks like the score and film are shaping up to be a disappointment.

has there been more negative tweets since this morning?

No, just TownerFan's general description of it coupled with Thor's.

[Balahkay 627]

I have a feeling opinions about the score will change once the OST is released.

[King Mark 3,625]

i can't find Townerfan's

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I have a feeling opinions about the score will change once the OST is released.

Yeah, what was that "30 minutes of unreleased music" business?

TownerFan,

What was the music like for Han's death? Was there a statement of Han and the Princess? Was there any music at all?

[King Mark 3,625]

there's 175 minutes of music recorded

75minutes OST

100 minutes of unreleased music

1 hour of unused music(? some included in OST?)

[Will 2,215]

So the Lucasfilm logo really just plays SILENTLY, with no music at all?

What's your source? Did Thor say that?

Yes.

Thanks, I hadn't checked that thread today.

I have a feeling opinions about the score will change once the OST is released.

Me too. I still have faith in the maestro, even after all these score reviews that have leaned to the negative side. I'm trying to keep an open mind toward the score until I hear it for the first time on Friday, on the OST.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

So it looks like the score and film are shaping up to be a disappointment.

has there been more negative tweets since this morning?

No, just TownerFan's general description of it coupled with Thor's.

Well, Thor did like the film, and to be fair TF has been expressing some pessimism about it in his posts over the last few months. Even though I am sure he was ultimately hoping to enjoy it, I'll take his opinion on it with a grain of salt if he doesn't mind but I am really encouraged by his thoughts on the score.

But so just to confirm because this ABC spot thing is still a little confusing to me, what you are saying is the melody is not actually Rey's theme in its "original" form but a variation of it? So we still have yet to hear the theme as it's heard throughout the film?

[Will 2,215]

But so just to confirm because this ABC spot thing is still a little confusing to me, what you are saying is the melody is not actually Rey's theme in its "original" form but a variation of it? So we still have yet to hear the theme?

Where was that information about Rey's theme you mention? Was this something said under one of the spoiler tags?

[mrbellamy 6,272]

But so just to confirm because this ABC spot thing is still a little confusing to me, what you are saying is the melody is not actually Rey's theme in its "original" form but a variation of it? So we still have yet to hear the theme?

Where was that information about Rey's theme you mention? Was this something said under one of the spoiler tags?

Oh yes, sorry, it was in TownerFan's reaction hidden under spoiler tags.

[Will 2,215]

But so just to confirm because this ABC spot thing is still a little confusing to me, what you are saying is the melody is not actually Rey's theme in its "original" form but a variation of it? So we still have yet to hear the theme?

Where was that information about Rey's theme you mention? Was this something said under one of the spoiler tags?

Oh yes, sorry, it was in TownerFan's reaction hidden under spoiler tags.

OK, thanks. Part of me really wants to read what's under those spoiler tags, but I'm going to try very hard not to. That Rey's theme bit wasn't really a spoiler, but I can imagine there are plenty of real spoilers on the forum right now that I should try to stay away from.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Yeah, I figured as long as I just addressed the part about it being a variation it'd be safe to put out in the open

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

- While the music is given a pretty generous mix overall, a lot of the action music (and there's quite a lot of it) gets drowned by very loud sound FX to the point I asked myself if this style of contemporary filmmaking really can still bear the complex writing/orchestrations of Williams. He still writes within his very own style and didn't change any of it. There's nothing streamlined or "zimmerified" in it. I really admire he still has the guts of proposing this kind of very busy, intricate and complex action music to directors and producers. "Scherzo for X-Wings" will probably play A LOT better on the album than in the film, because everything is just too loud in that sequence.

When I suggested that the music is not very audible in the released clip, I was told to get my ears checked! But I knew this was going to happen. Modern movies simply don't support this kind of scores anymore. That's why I loved War Horse, where there were a lot of scenes where the score played without sound effects. Or the scores by Giachhino win awards, because very little if any sound effects obscure the music and the emotion flows through.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Here, I went ahead and made TF's reaction spoiler free:

Saw the film tonight. I didn't like it, sorry. Its a big letdown. I can see already a lot of fans being both exhilarated OR disappointed. Anyway, this is gonna be a loooooong debate among fans, so I'll leave it there.

Okay, let's talk about JW. The music is great of course, because it's JW writing in his usual SW mode, but keep this in mind: this is much more in line with the prequels than the OT. It's a natural extension of SW music from where JW left the discourse in 2005. So keep this in mind if you're reading it before hearing or seeing anything.

Here's a few ramblings about it, given the fact I listened to it for the first time within the film itself. I'm writing all this fresh from my memory, so I can definitely be wrong or inaccurate about a few things:

- The new themes are all good, but imho they aren't let to shine and develop much because the narrative is so disjointed and quick that JW cannot do more than underscore the simple action, very much like he did in the prequels. Every scene is a set-up for the next one, hence there isn't much time to develop a leitmotiv-driven approach.

- Rey's Theme is probably the major new theme and it gets some REALLY lovely statements in the introductory sequence for the character, with some unusual orchestration for the SW music universe. Flute is the key instrument of the character.

- Kylo Ren's theme is more a motif than an actual long developed theme, but you can surely recognize it by the end of the film.

- Finn and Poe seem to share a sort of heroic thematic figure, related more to the first character than the second. But it sounds very nice and exciting.

- The choral music for Snoke sounded like an extension of "Palpatine's Teachings" from Episode 3. Very low writing for men's choir.

- The march of the Resistance reminded me a lot of another martial/heroic JW theme, but I didn't have the time to grasp which one in particular. This theme does get an extensive workout during the end credits suite.

- Concerning the old themes, you get quotes of Luke's Theme, the Force Theme, Rebel Fanfare, Leia's Theme, Han & Leia love theme, Vader's theme, and of course the main/end title fanfare.

- There are at least a couple of verbatim quote from the original trilogy: the first one is a direct quote of Han and Leia love theme and the other is "Burning Homestead"

- The theme heard in the ABC 60 sec TV spot is really a variation of Rey's Theme.

- While the music is given a pretty generous mix overall, a lot of the action music (and there's quite a lot of it) gets drowned by very loud sound FX to the point I asked myself if this style of contemporary filmmaking really can still bear the complex writing/orchestrations of Williams. He still writes within his very own style and didn't change any of it. There's nothing streamlined or "zimmerified" in it. I really admire he still has the guts of proposing this kind of very busy, intricate and complex action music to directors and producers. "Scherzo for X-Wings" will probably play A LOT better on the album than in the film, because everything is just too loud in that sequence.

- Overall, I think it's a very good score, but I think you can appreciate a lot more of its subtleties when heard on its own in the album, very much like the prequels. At this very moment, I would put it just a notch under ROTS (the prequel score I like the most), above TPM and AOTC.

[Balahkay 627]

Would the verbatim quotes make the score ineligible for the Oscars? Or the use of existing themes? I'm not sure about the rules anymore.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Would the verbatim quotes make the score ineligible for the Oscars? Or the use of existing themes? I'm not sure about the rules anymore.

Strictly speaking, it probably should, but they are very inconsistent about their own rules. It really just depends on popular whim.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Well, Thor did like the film, and to be fair TF has been expressing some pessimism about it in his posts over the last few months. Even though I am sure he was ultimately hoping to enjoy it, I'll take his opinion on it with a grain of salt if he doesn't mind but I am really encouraged by his thoughts on the score.

I reckon this is the key to interpreting reviews here. Do your sensibilities align more with Thor, who to me seems determined to give everything a neutral, fair shake and consequently enjoys a lot of stuff (and I share this sentiment), or TownerFan, who represents more those who long for a bygone era and are let down by most things because of it? I'm not trying to be harsh with that, it's just how I observe things. There are many here on both sides. What I'm saying is, it's obvious to me who will like this film and score, and who won't. Search your feelings, and you will know what's in store for you.