Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Well, Thor did like the film, and to be fair TF has been expressing some pessimism about it in his posts over the last few months. Even though I am sure he was ultimately hoping to enjoy it, I'll take his opinion on it with a grain of salt if he doesn't mind but I am really encouraged by his thoughts on the score.I reckon this is the key to interpreting reviews here. Do your sensibilities align more with Thor, who to me seems determined to give everything a neutral, fair shake and consequently enjoys a lot of stuff (and I share this sentiment), or TownerFan, who represents more those who long for a bygone era and are let down by most things because of it? I'm not trying to be harsh with that, it's just how I observe things. There are many here on both sides. What I'm saying is, it's obvious to me who will like this film and score, and who won't. Search your feelings, and you will know what's in store for you.True. In fact, I can't think of any poster here who's general stance lines up with mine. But the descriptions of tracked music and a "flightier" feel for the action cues sound relatively unappealing on their own merit, regardless of who's posting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Would the verbatim quotes make the score ineligible for the Oscars? Or the use of existing themes? I'm not sure about the rules anymore.It wouldn't if the new work is not "diluted by the old themes". He was nominated for sequels before... namely Harry Potter 3, Indy 2 and 3, Star Wars 5 and 6, all of which re-state themes from the first score.Shore won for LOTR 3 which stated themes from the previous 3 films.Nino Rota won for Godfather 2 which stated themes from the previous score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Let me put it this way: the score is a very nice addition to the overall SW musical lexicon and it surely will grow on me when I'll listen to its own on the album. Heard within the film it maybe lacks some extra "punch", even though JW accompanies the narrative with his usual flair and prowess like only him can do.I'm pretty sure a lot of people here will compare it to Crystal Skull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,463 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Read your comments in the spoiler tags earlier, TownerFan, and seems we have a LOT of overlapping opinions on and observations of the score.We disagree quite a bit on the film, though, which I seemed to like a lot more than you. TownerFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 But so just to confirm because this ABC spot thing is still a little confusing to me, what you are saying is the melody is not actually Rey's theme in its "original" form but a variation of it? So we still have yet to hear the theme?Where was that information about Rey's theme you mention? Was this something said under one of the spoiler tags? The theme heard in the ABC spot is really the final scene of the movie. It's not Rey's theme, but imho a sort of variation of it. Rey's theme is a longer, more developed melody typical of late JW scores. It's not instantly memorable imho (I cannot remember it right now), but it's definitely lovely. It's probably the new theme that gets more developed throughout the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Read your comments in the spoiler tags earlier, TownerFan, and seems we have a LOT of overlapping opinions on and observations of the score.We disagree quite a bit on the film, though, which I seemed to like a lot more than you.Sure, the film is getting mostly positive reviews. During my screening yesterday I saw more than one perplexed face, but overall it's surely a well-done action/adventure film. My own biggest problem with the film is the writing and some narrative choices, but I don't have time now to go deep into it.Regarding the music I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to analyze every nook and cranny of it. There is surely a lot to grasp into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 A very, very quick writedown of my experience of the score (on the way home): The Resistance fugue is brilliant (almost sounds like an unused, more mature Hook cue). There's a lot of classic OT brass writing in here - chromatic trumpet whirls a la ESB/ROTJ, lots of 'blasts', etc. Very different from what we heard in the Prequel trilogy, except perhaps the xylophone/woodwind writing in some places! Of course, there are trademark Williams moments (e.g. parallel major chords during the battles, the Hook-esque fugue I mentioned, and most notably, by far (!), ROTS-esque string writing (along the lines of the several Requiem-ish cues that score has to offer) and a couple of quartal moments). What I couldn't appreciate, though, is the cliché feel of much of the First Order underscore (think Giacchino's low brass moments) and the overly frequent use of the Rebel Fanfare. Yes, it's great and nostalgic, but it doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the action material. Of note is that the film is pretty much scored wall-to-wall (rendering one spine-tingling moment of silence near the end of the film very effective). That's it!This is very intimidating, as I'm just 17 years old and attempting to write something intelligent concerning the score!Also, Rey has a brilliant motif! Sounds like some of AOTC's playful moments, but far more mature! Also, lots of AOTC-esque woodwind moments for BB-8 (think the end of Shmi's Funeral).Oh , and there's a gorgeous woodwind chord for BB-8 near the beginning of the film, along the lines of the end of ROTS's 'Dialogue With Mace'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,300 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 That's an amazing rundown of the score Alexander! I'm really excited again now! It sounds like a hybrid of both trilogies, so he's forging ahead in a new direction. Everyone seems to be raving about Rey's Theme so I'm relieved to know how effective it is in the film. Great stuff! And totally unsurprised to read Abrams had the film scored almost wall to wall. I'd do the same in his position as an unabashed Williams fanboy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I was a bit dissapointed, though. None of the awesome polytonal moments ROTS had (think 'Get 'Em R-2'). There is a little bit which I think is semi-quartal, semi-tertian though - two brass chords for a scene involving the Falcon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,281 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Discuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Also, One of the videos showing Williams conducting had a marcato trombone rendition of Kylo Ren's theme (E-D#-G-F#) which did not appear in the film! Aside from that, I believe 'Sherzo For X-Wings' has an insert in the film! The bold rendition of Luke's theme we heard in the clip was interrupted rather oddly, followed by a bit of score not heard in the clip and later re-stated and completed. Sorry, Jay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Joni Wiljami and alicebrallice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 The score really works well in the film. I noted the three new themes, and there's some really nice and appropriate use of classic Star Wars music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marcus 390 Posted December 16, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 16, 2015 Just saw the film. I will focus on the score, and refrain from addressing much about the film per se, except that it is easily the most well-written, well-executed Star Wars film since ESB.The new characters are very memorable, and the film has a welcome sense of discovery to it.The score is gorgeous, but builds rather slowly. There's a LOT of thematic development, and much more than in the prequels, as Williams has been afforded the luxury of composing on a structural macro-scale in a way that the prequels denied him.The new themes (most prominently Rey's Theme, Kylo Ren's excellent sinister five note motif and the fugal march for the Resistance) co-exist comfortably with the rest of the saga's musical glossary. But keep in mind: The film is very much about self-discovery, and the score reflects this.There are many hidden allusions to the Imperial March, but only one actual quote. Tonally, it feels more like a contemporary take on 70's Williams (not 80's or 90's); it's mostly rather serious and severe. The most prominent new color is the emphasis on piano and celesta in Rey's theme, a theme that also offers an extension of Star Wars' harmonic palette into more pentatonic, contemporary Williams writing. Unlike the film, though, the score -despite its meticulously crafted pacing- has a sense of being an epilogue. And how could it not? Revisiting that far,far away galaxy for the seventh time, now as an octogenarian, Williams must obviously feel how deeply connected his own career, development and musical life are with this cultural phenomenon. There's something retrospective about the score, even though it relies heavily on new material.I can't wait to discover the score on disc, as its subtleties seem to be legion, and I have but briefly heard it on a surface level. Ricard, mbrannon47, Once and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,300 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Amazing analysis Marcus! I, too, think the score will be an entirely different experience on soundtrack than just in the film, especially if Williams crafted his usual listening experience for it.Glad to hear the piano finally gets a workout in a Star Wars score; it's about time the palette of his orchestra was expanded for these films and piano has been all-too-rare a contributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yes, the Force Theme is only again the central recurring theme. It long ago lost its connection to Obi-Wan.For the most part all the instances of old themes appearing seemed newly composed. Except one notable cue which was essentially Burning Homestead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 How did people feel regarding (MAJOR SPOILER!) the music for Han's death? I thought it was quite underwhelming, for what is supposed to be a big moment in the saga.I liked that it was scored as a personal tragedy, and not an intergalactic one. Joni Wiljami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 How did people feel regarding (MAJOR SPOILER!) the music for Han's death? I thought it was quite underwhelming, for what is supposed to be a big moment in the saga.I liked that it was scored as a personal tragedy, and not an intergalactic one.Which track is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I very much agree with all of what Marcus said about the score. Great thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 How did people feel regarding (MAJOR SPOILER!) the music for Han's death? I thought it was quite underwhelming, for what is supposed to be a big moment in the saga.I liked that it was scored as a personal tragedy, and not an intergalactic one.I'm not saying I would have wanted something grand, just something that felt a bit memorable, instead of (what sounds to me like) anonymous underscore. Maybe I'll change my mind once I listen to the OST, but right now, I thought that moment was a bit of a letdown. Trumpeteer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'm going to listen to the OST now. Complete cue list and musical analysis of the music as used in the film coming later! Stay tuned!In favor of a more qualitative rundown, it might take some time to assemble the list and analysis. I can't guarantee it will be finished by tonight (GMT + 1), but I'll do my absolute best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Come on! That was so obvious! During the duel between Kylo Ren and Rey, when Rey got hold of Luke's lightsaber!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Can anyone remind me when the Burning Homestead quote was heard in the film? I've noticed Maurizio mentioned that, but don't remember hearing it in the film.Final showdown between Kylo Ren and Rey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 You have failed me for the last time, Alvar. (Force chokes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Apology accepted Bloodboal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indyyy72 0 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hi I have see the film this morning, and Hear the music by John Williams. Confirm in end titles the conducting by Williams and Ross.Great theme from Ray and March of the Resistance. I expected somthing more for Kylo Ren theme. nothing reference music to darth vader theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Huh? Vader's theme was quite obviously quoted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 dead_lizard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yes it was. Just once, but it was obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 That scene was atrocious anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Just to make sure nobody who wants to read about the music as heard in the film gets spoiled in any way. I mean, it's totally possible some people are interested in reading the comments here, not willing to read any spoilers at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Wouldn't go as far as calling it that, but it did feel useless.It's useful in reminding viewers that Star Wars is all about the Skywalker family! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,281 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Just to make sure nobody who wants to read about the music as heard in the film gets spoiled in any way. I mean, it's totally possible some people are interested in reading the comments here, not willing to read any spoilers at the same time.This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Just to make sure nobody who wants to read about the music as heard in the film gets spoiled in any way. I mean, it's totally possible some people are interested in reading the comments here, not willing to read any spoilers at the same time.OK, fair enough.Your last spoiler tag was unnecessary, though. You never know! It might get some hopes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Just to make sure nobody who wants to read about the music as heard in the film gets spoiled in any way. I mean, it's totally possible some people are interested in reading the comments here, not willing to read any spoilers at the same time.This.Luke dies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Obviously you can't count! He was killed thrice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Wow, I just got out. A lot of thoughts. On my way home so won't even try to write it with my mobile. Yeah, that music in that tv spot was used before the credits. I liked it and thought it was Williams right from the start. I agree that the score was a minor disappointment but I still find it great. Too early to rank the scores just from one viewing too and without several album listens. I bet it has leaked now. I have a lot to catch up with I bet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 all I want to know is what the biggest musical crimes are (AKA what was left of the album, what really shouldnt have been) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 What a horrible and negative attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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