The Force Awakens The Force Awakens SCORE Discussion (Film Spoilers Allowed)

[Demodex 557]

Thanks.  For some reason I don't remember much from the end.  I remember Starkiller base exploding, then the droids putting the map together, then Rey climbing steps and finding Luke.  The rest is a total blur.  

[Henry B 50]

Just going to speculate a little.

 

In the middle of "Torn Apart" we hear essentially an exact reprise of "The Starkiller." It's certainly effective, but I do wonder whether Williams wrote some other options for that scene - maybe even the tragic version of Han and Leia's theme that we all expected. Another reason I'm looking forward to the unreleased, unused music.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Could be an intentional connection, the tragedies of the Starkiller destruction and Han's death inside the base.

[Demodex 557]

3 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

The destruction of the Starkiller base through Rey's hyperspace trip in the Falcon.  I believe there is a bit of music in the middle cut out for the album, but I believe it is heard elsewhere in "Rey Meets BB-8."

 

Wait a minute.  How does The Journey Home from the FYC tracks fit into this?

[Jay 37,287]

This might help with that: http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25940-the-force-awakens-fyc-release-discussion-film-spoilers-allowed/

[Demodex 557]

It might once I see the movie a few more times.  I just can't visualize what happens onscreen in those sections.

[DominicCobb 194]

22 hours ago, Demodex said:

 

Wait a minute.  How does The Journey Home from the FYC tracks fit into this?

 

The Journey Home is from when Rey and unconscious Finn get picked up by Chewie in the Falcon, through Starkiller being destroyed, and up to the end of Leia and Rey hugging. It is also represented as the first half of Farewell and the Trip on the OST.

 

Go see the movie again if you need to, it's good.

 

 

[rpvee 805]

Not really sure which thread this belongs in, but you can hear a few words from Williams at the premiere at 18:53 of this:

 

https://vimeo.com/149706607

[Demodex 557]

2 hours ago, DominicCobb said:

 

The Journey Home is from when Rey and unconscious Finn get picked up by Chewie in the Falcon, through Starkiller being destroyed, and up to the end of Leia and Rey hugging. It is also represented as the first half of Farewell and the Trip on the OST.

 

Go see the movie again if you need to, it's good.

 

 

 

So it's a completely redundant track. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

There's nothing redundant on the OST.

 

The lamentation in "The Starkiller" and "Torn Apart" is some of the best stuff.

[Demodex 557]

DominicCobb just said that The Journey Home is the same as the first half of Farewell and The Trip. Or am I misunderstanding?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

On the OST, they are combined into one track called "Farewell and The Trip". On the FYC, "Farewell and The Trip" begins with "Rey Meets BB-8". There is no repeated material on either version.

[artguy360 1,843]

Today I saw the film for a second time and I love the score even more as a result. JW's timing is absolutely perfect. I love the opening, how the horn introduces the new Star Destroyer and then the up-tempo music starts the moment the transports appear. During Han's scene with Kylo, the music slowly starts only after Kylo takes his helmet off and just melts my heart. When Starkiller fires for the first time the sound mix makes way for those beautiful strings just in time for the quick zoom on the back of Kylo Ren as the red laser passes his view. 

 

The first time around I thought some of the musical flourishes were out of place but I had no such issues this time. And the Burning Homestead music totally works for the scene when Rey makes the lightsaber come to her, even though the horn portion does sound a little, I don't know, low quality or too quiet. But seriously, this second viewing really brought the score to life. Every time Kylo Ren shows up his theme just kills it. 

[Foundling 11]

Any thoughts on the similarities between 'Snoke' and the music which accompanied Palpatine's discussion of Dark Plageuis with Anakin in RotS? 

 

It may have been discussed on here elsewhere, but I haven't found it!

 

I don't believe the music features anywhere on the RotS OST.

 

Link: http://comicbook.com/2015/12/26/star-wars-the-force-awakens-soundtrack-might-provide-hint-at-sup/ 

[nightscape94 965]

Saw the movie again yesterday, noticed some great subtle Resistance theme usage during the underscoring of the attack plan meeting.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

That's our new most wanted unreleased cue, and it won't even be on the expanded edition!

[nightscape94 965]

It might be on the Ultimate Edition!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Great score to a great film. I have seen it 3 times and will now eagerly awake the Blu Ray and the hopefully expanded score. 

 

Finally saw Michael Giacchino's name in the credits. Thank God it was not listed under music by.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I saw it again today as well.  Maybe it was the theater I was in, but the sound mix seemed particularly brutal.  Honestly, the complaints among many fans that there is nothing memorable seems likely attributable to sound effects washing out the most beautiful of Williams' passages.  I'm thinking the end of "The Journey Home and the Trip," where much of Rey's theme is inaudible, except perhaps to us who are listening for it.  The opening of Scherzo is also nearly inaudible, and I think that is a moment that would truly have roused fans.  How unfortunate.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yeah, I don't understand why people are saying the score was more prominent in the sound mix. It was very low to my ears and a lot of the bigger moments were buried underneath sound effects and yelling. Even the main title seemed too low, just like with the prequels. Can we turn up the volume, please?

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Well, I saw it first in an imax screening, and the score really seemed to pop there.  I'd just imagine most theaters are not equipped with the sound system to properly display all elements of the sound mix properly.  In smaller theaters, those finer elements probably just get drowned out in favor of effects...

 

I suppose that is something the sound mixers could have planned for, but who cares about John Williams when you have 'splosions!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

19 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

Well, I saw it first in an imax screening, and the score really seemed to pop there.  I'd just imagine most theaters are not equipped with the sound system to properly display all elements of the sound mix properly.  In smaller theaters, those finer elements probably just get drowned out in favor of effects...

 

I suppose that is something the sound mixers could have planned for, but who cares about John Williams when you have 'splosions!

I'll be seeing it in the Imax too, this coming Tuesday.  And not one of those sissy converted "Digital Imax" theaters that are plaguing theaters around the world.  Hopefully the score will be well mixed like you said.  
 

[Taikomochi 1,136]

So, it seems Reddit is capable of some interesting discussion.

 

I dare not look at the comments, though.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

5 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

So, it seems Reddit is capable of some interesting discussion.

 

I dare not look at the comments, though.

I noticed the incomplete Force theme statements too.  Nice storytelling on Williams' part.  

[BloodBoal 7,538]

9 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

I dare not look at the comments, though.

 

No reason to be afraid.

 

Quote

John Williams is IMHO the greatest movie scorer of all time. He makes Star Wars (and the Harry Potter films, etc.) so much better by injecting his chill-inducing scores that really portray and accentuate the emotions on the screen.

 

Quote

And Indiana Jones, schindler's list, ET, jaws, Jurassic park, hook, home alone, superman.

His repertoire is incredible. He's a melodic genius.

 

Quote

The first album I ever owned was the original 1977 Star Wars soundtrack double record. It was the background music of my childhood, and colored my musical tastes forever. More folks should just listen to the original Star Wars and Empire soundtracks as pure musical works. They are true genius. Williams absolutely abuses the London Symphony Orchestra with the Empire soundtrack. It's just brutal, and must be incredibly fun and challenging to perform.

 

 

Quote

The Star Wars Oxygen podcast was recommended to me on this subreddit a few days ago. It's incredible how much detail and layering that went into all of the music.

I wish I had more training to fully appreciate how crazy the music is

 

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I shall not associate with those peasants!

[artguy360 1,843]

52 minutes ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

Yeah, I don't understand why people are saying the score was more prominent in the sound mix. It was very low to my ears and a lot of the bigger moments were buried underneath sound effects and yelling. Even the main title seemed too low, just like with the prequels. Can we turn up the volume, please?

I saw the movie once in Seattle's Imax and once at the Cinerama which has one of the best theater setups in the country. The score was great both times. From the opening crawl to the last note of the end credits. Kylo Ren's theme was especially fantastic. There were some moments where the sound effects were prioritized over the music, especially in some of the X-Wing sequences. But overall the sound mix is way better than the prequels. I thought it featured the score wonderfully.

[nightscape94 965]

9 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

20 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

I dare not look at the comments, though.

 

No reason to be afraid.

 

Quote

John Williams is IMHO the greatest movie scorer of all time. He makes Star Wars (and the Harry Potter films, etc.) so much better by injecting his chill-inducing scores that really portray and accentuate the emotions on the screen.

 

Quote

And Indiana Jones, schindler's list, ET, jaws, Jurassic park, hook, home alone, superman.

His repertoire is incredible. He's a melodic genius.

 

Quote

The first album I ever owned was the original 1977 Star Wars soundtrack double record. It was the background music of my childhood, and colored my musical tastes forever. More folks should just listen to the original Star Wars and Empire soundtracks as pure musical works. They are true genius. Williams absolutely abuses the London Symphony Orchestra with the Empire soundtrack. It's just brutal, and must be incredibly fun and challenging to perform.

 

Quote

The Star Wars Oxygen podcast was recommended to me on this subreddit a few days ago. It's incredible how much detail and layering that went into all of the music.

I wish I had more training to fully appreciate how crazy the music is

 

 

Those monsters

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I saw some of the most obnoxious "it's shit cuz there's no Duel of the Fates" whining on Reddit, so I don't feel my caution is unwarranted!

[artguy360 1,843]

I'm seeing reactions across the internet saying JW is done. Saying Zimmer or someone else should score Ep 8. So sad.

[Demodex 557]

22 hours ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

On the OST, they are combined into one track called "Farewell and The Trip". On the FYC, "Farewell and The Trip" begins with "Rey Meets BB-8". There is no repeated material on either version.

 

What I meant was that if i have the OST then I don't need that track. I only downloaded tracks from the FYC site if they were different from, or not on, the OST. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yes, you're right.

 

If you're combining music from both versions, you need to edit extensively.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

After seeing the film again today, I have decided that the tracking in of "Burning Homestead" was a very bad decision artistically.  A lot of fans seem to like it, but to me, it almost seemed like self parody.  It reminded me of when Tarantino used old Morricone scores in Kill Bill, in which part of the humor is how out of place the music is, played for irony.  I don't think that is the experience the film makers wanted to create, but that bit of tracked music is sorely out of place with the rest of Williams' writing.  Even the recording quality, under all the sound effects, sounds starkly different from the rest of the score.  It hugely took me out of that moment of the film.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I get why they did it. To provoke feelings of familiarity and elicit cheers from audience members who recognise it at such a charged and significant moment. Of course this move didn't work in my cinema because Australians don't cheer at movies.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I mean, I understand why, but it was a cheap move and betrayed the tone of the film.  I think it will satisfy hyped fanboys on first viewing, but I think it will date badly, which is a concern, given the timeless quality of the original trilogy.  At least when the prequels used tracked music, they pulled from their own trilogy, so it didn't sound completely out of place.

[artguy360 1,843]

18 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

After seeing the film again today, I have decided that the tracking in of "Burning Homestead" was a very bad decision artistically.  A lot of fans seem to like it, but to me, it almost seemed like self parody.  It reminded me of when Tarantino used old Morricone scores in Kill Bill, in which part of the humor is how out of place the music is, played for irony.  I don't think that is the experience the film makers wanted to create, but that bit of tracked music is sorely out of place with the rest of Williams' writing.  Even the recording quality, under all the sound effects, sounds starkly different from the rest of the score.  It hugely took me out of that moment of the film.

I thought this after my first viewing, but after my second viewing, it just works. In fact it really works. The strings are so good when they enter sharply to start the force theme. The horns at the end sounded a little too muted, they would have been better if they were louder but that may have been a sound quality issue.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Doesn't fit in with the rest of the score.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

4 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

I thought this after my first viewing, but after my second viewing, it just works. In fact it really works. The strings are so good when they enter sharply to start the force theme. The horns at the end sounded a little too muted, they would have been better if they were louder but that may have been a sound quality issue.

 

I am the inverse.  I thought it worked the first time, but, the second time, it seemed extremely jarring.  I think when time has passed about this film and people are able to reconcile its actual merits ins

[DominicCobb 194]

The large majority of people who see the film will never even know that the piece was tracked. Fans included.

 

First time I saw it I recognized it immediately and took me out of it for half a sec, but was brought back in quickly because it's a powerful piece of music and a powerful scene. Didn't bother me the other two times I saw it because I knew it was coming.

 

Do I think it was a good idea? No, they obviously should have used an original piece or at least a new recording that fit in better. But, having heard what Williams originally intended on the OST, I can't honestly say that it would have had the same impact as Burning Homestead. Given the choice between the two, I'd probably go with Burning Homestead.

[artguy360 1,843]

Just now, Taikomochi said:

 

I am the inverse.  I thought it worked the first time, but, the second time, it seemed extremely jarring.  I think when time has passed about this film and people are able to reconcile its actual merits instead of projecting their own expectations as fanboys are wont to do, not that that is what you are experiencing, they will realize it is a very bad and jarring edit that removes viewers from the film.

Concerning both the score and the film as a whole I think I have a good grasp on what works and what doesn't in my opinion of course. I think the force theme was quoted a few too many times in the score but that moment is not one I have issue with. It definitely would have been better if the music was re-recorded and I would love to hear what JW originally had there. Generally I am against tracked music, especially the awful use of it in the PT, but this moment didn't kill my ears.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I have seen a lot of fans specifically commenting on it, mostly positively, but they did notice that it was out of place.  That is enough for my prediction.

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

On 12/15/2015 at 3:45 PM, Will Tasker said:

Correct me on this, but isn't "The Immolation Scene" from ROTS just Anakin's Theme trying to "form" and failing?

Whoa!

 

On 12/18/2015 at 2:31 PM, leeallen01 said:

I think the old stuff was poorly integrated and just wrongly placed in the film. Luke's theme for when Han enters the cockpit of the Falcon...silly. the Force theme was overused. Basically every single time the force was used or mentioned it was 'insert mournful horn rendition of force theme here.' Also they had a great opportunity to use the Falcon fanfare from 'Asteroid field' during the Jakku escape. Instead the rebel fanfare was used multiple times which felt forced.

Yeah.  After all the cool variations on the force theme in ROTS, the static nature of it in TFA was pretty underwhelming.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

5 hours ago, artguy360 said:

Concerning both the score and the film as a whole I think I have a good grasp on what works and what doesn't in my opinion of course. I think the force theme was quoted a few too many times in the score but that moment is not one I have issue with. It definitely would have been better if the music was re-recorded and I would love to hear what JW originally had there.

 

The Ways Of The Force: 00:13 - 00:33

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

There will be YouTube opportunities to hear it in context when it comes out on video.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

i really thought it was a re-recording.

 

In fact i really dont f****ing understand why it isnt.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

No need to go to all the effort when the work was already done in 1977!

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Anybody also thinking that when JJ listened to the new recording of the main title he should have siad , sorry John, William ross has to go to london and record this with the LSO.

 

The main score is OK, but the main title is so 'pedestrian'...

 

The raiders march in KOTCS sounded really good with the same orchestra...i dont know what happened here.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yeah it was obviously performed by musicians while crossing the street.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Luke is insane!

 

The performance of the score is phenomenal!

[publicist 4,643]

The 1'28 of the opening crawl is the first thing i cut out in a new SW score.