The Official Sir Christopher Nolan Church Thread - Oscar-winning Saviour of the Celluloid

[Nick1Ø66 8,355]

4 hours ago, Mephariel said:

 

I shouldn't have to. It is obvious that a large group of the online film music community isn't interested in film music. If you look at end of year awards, general conversations, even IFMCA, 90% of the people think if you sit in a chair and the music sounds great, it means it is great film music. The fact that The Piper by Christopher Young got so many end of the year award nominations should tell you that. How many people do you think saw that film? 

 

"Yeah, but will it be something that personally interests you to listen to outside the movie?"

 

This to me is it. I grew up playing games like Super Mario World, and to me, that is video game music. It is quirky, addicting, and fits that world to a T. Today, you have Bear McCreary making video game music like God of War. Look, the composition and recording is obviously light years ahead of the compressed electronic thing that is SMW, but I honestly say I found SMW much more listenable. There is a certain charm to that score. It is not about who writes the most complex music, or have the most sophisticated instrumentation, but who builds the better sonic world.

 

To me, a film music fan would recognize that and accept many different types of music and ideas. 

 

I been posting in multiple film music forums for a long time, and I think you have too. I don't think I need to tell you how many times you see comments like "I don't listen to anything that isn't neo-romantic." Or "how can he be a better composer when he can't even orchestrate and conduct?"

 

Do people on this board even get excited when hearing a cool spotted scene in film? This is why I said the general movie goers loves film music more than this board. When a movie goer sees the F1 title sequence, they say, "that is a cool, fun track." When this board sees that, they go "How dare Zimmer write something so simplistic.  Maurice Jarre would have written 250 more notes!" Like dude, it is ok to be a film music fan and just enjoy the ride. You don't have to act like you are the smartest guy in the world every second you listen to a cue.

 

To be honest...and I really am trying to follow along...I'm not just quite sure what you're on about. I'm not being glib, I'm truly not understanding what your point is.

 

On 17/5/2026 at 11:48 AM, Edmilson said:

Yeah, but will it be something that personally interests you to listen to outside the movie? Maybe it is, maybe not. Maybe you're more of a movie fan, who gives more importance to whether the score serves and improves the movie than to whether you'd like to listen to it  (ala Glóin or Alex). Maybe you give equal importance to both: if the score serves the movie AND it is something you'd like listening to, then great; if it serves but you consider unpleasant in OST form, then at least the movie has a fitting score.

 

There are plenty of movies I love with scores that I wouldn't even try to listen to, mostly from the horror genre. And plenty of scores I love from movies I consider mediocre.

 

But, overall, I consider myself more of a film score fan than a movie fan, at least these days... So yes, I'm sad that most modern day scores don't appeal to me personally but rather to the fanboy who listens to Epic Cover of the Man of Steel Theme on YouTube.

 

But what are you gonna do? Be sad that modern music is not good to my ears? Honestly, there are so many modern things that aren't good for me in any capacity; this is just one more. So I just won't waste my time with that, and instead focus on scores from the past and/or from outside Hollywood who are more aligned with my tastes.

 

Am I happy that modern day scores for an ancient epic are gongs manipulated with synths and combined with Travis Scott rapping? No, but it is what it is. Those who like this sort of music, be happy and enjoy it, as for myself, there are other kinds of music that I can look after.

 

Internet may have done more harm than good to humanity overall, but one of the bright sides is that it gives you easy access to so much stuff from so many different eras that, if you aren't interested in modern day stuff or what is hip and trendy amongst people nowadays, you can shut them off completely from your life. And the best part: it also offers you lots of places where you can complain about "things today"!

 

To be honest...and I really am trying to follow along...I'm not just quite sure what you're on about. I'm not being glib, I'm truly not understanding what your point is.

[Edmilson 12,417]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

To be honest...and I really am trying to follow along...I'm not just quite sure what you're on about. I'm not being glib, I'm truly not understanding what your point is.

Now, I'm gonna make it perfectly clear. The point of all of this is:

 

Spoiler

 

[Mr. Hooper 9,050]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Now, I'm gonna make it perfectly clear. The point of all of this is:

 

  Hide contents

 

Homer Simpson's eye?

 

 

[BloodBoal 8,724]

God, The Simpsons used to be great...

[Smeltington 2,020]

On 17/05/2026 at 5:49 AM, Nick1Ø66 said:

If you're not captivated by Interstellar's science you have no head.

If you're not touched by Interstellar's message about love, you have no heart.

If you're not moved by Interstellar's beauty, you have no soul.

 

If you're not overcome by The Odyssey's epic length, you have no huge, bulging cock.

[Mr. Hooper 9,050]

Just now, Smeltington said:

 

If you're not overcome by The Odyssey's epic length, you have no huge, bulging cock.

I can see the reviews now...

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,458]

The longer the better I always say!

[Smeltington 2,020]

On 16/05/2026 at 10:20 PM, Mephariel said:

The opposite. The people who are interested in film music are not interested in film music. They are often times symphonic music snobs who pretend to like film music. 

 

Ironically, we JWFans worry about classical fans looking down on our guys, like John, Jerry, etc. But we do basically the same with the modern crop of composers. I mean, I feel the same way many here do. But I guess many of us would rank classical music above most film music if we were born earlier in history, and we might think the orchestral film score supremacy line of thinking was snobby if we were born later.

[BloodBoal 8,724]

1 minute ago, Smeltington said:

But we do basically the same with the modern crap of composers.

 

Let's try to remain polite, Smeltington...

[Smeltington 2,020]

Lol. Are there actually any communities based around the modern crap of composers? Or do people who like that stuff only express it on Reddit and YouTube?

[Mr. Hooper 9,050]

6 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

 

Ironically, we JWFans worry about classical fans looking down on our guys, like John, Jerry, etc. But we do basically the same with the modern crop of composers. I mean, I feel the same way many here do. But I guess many of us would rank classical music above most film music if we were born earlier in history, and we might think the orchestral film score supremacy line of thinking was snobby if we were born later.

Pointing out our obvious hypocrisy will not win you friends here. 

[BloodBoal 8,724]

3 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

Lol. Are there actually any communities based around the modern crap of composers? Or do people who like that stuff only express it on Reddit and YouTube?

 

I'm sure there's some CRAPFAN.com forum somewhere on the Internet.

[Chen G. 6,166]

1 minute ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Pointing out our obvious hypocrisy will not win you friends here. 

 

One could argue it's not hypocrisy. Do people here militate against the idea of snobbishness, or merely argue on aesthetic grounds that it's poorly applied to film music?

[Smeltington 2,020]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Pointing out our obvious hypocrisy will not win you friends here. 

 

Forgive me... I hereby renounce Brian Tyler, JunkieXL, and especially Lorne Balfe!

 

5 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

I'm sure there's some CRAPFAN.com forum somewhere on the Internet.

 

We need to find it so we can mine it for stuff to complain about over here!

[Edmilson 12,417]

4 hours ago, Smeltington said:

 

If you're not overcome by The Odyssey's epic length, you have no huge, bulging cock.

Chicks dig when your odysseus has epic length.

 

4 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

I'm sure there's some CRAPFAN.com forum somewhere on the Internet.

You won't like what you will find there.

[Naïve Old Fart 13,070]

10 hours ago, Smeltington said:

If you're not overcome by The Odyssey's epic length, you have no huge, bulging cock.

Hey! That's my line 

[Nick1Ø66 8,355]

17 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

One could argue it's not hypocrisy. Do people here militate against the idea of snobbishness, or merely argue on aesthetic grounds that it's poorly applied to film music?

 

I don't know. But I remember being vaguely insulted when I first read the liner notes to the (superb) Star Wars Soundtrack Anthology.

 

There was a line in there, written by Lukas Kendall Nicholas Meyer, saying "In listening to the Star Wars music, listeners can immerse themselves in the sound of a symphony orchestra to a degree unprecedented, and in the process, they may acquire a taste for more sophisticated fare."

[Richard P 5,319]

I would be too! 

 

While film music can be described broadly objectively in terms of varying levels of orchestration, complexity and skill, no liner notes writer can tell me how much emotion I get from a piece, no matter how simplistic it may be. The complexity and cleverness of a piece always takes second place to pure emotive power for me.

 

I've never been that aware of the snobbishness of classical listeners to film music, but there's definitely a tendency in our circles to want to demonstrate how far above a composer one is in terms of taste. Feels like that's where a lot of the conflict on this forum originates from, when someone goes out of their way to trash a composer.

[Nick1Ø66 8,355]

2 hours ago, Richard P said:

While film music can be described broadly objectively in terms of varying levels of orchestration, complexity and skill, no liner notes writer can tell me how much emotion I get from a piece, no matter how simplistic it may be. The complexity and cleverness of a piece always takes second place to pure emotive power for me.

 

As it should be, and that goes for all art.

[Naïve Old Fart 13,070]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

"hopefully the music of Star Wars will lead listeners to seek out more sophisticated fare". 

That's nothing to what Nick Meyer wrote!

[Richard P 5,319]

Quote

Avoid it... if you're a sourpuss or a picklepuss, and you'd rather be clubbed over the head by far more simplistic scores.

 

Clemmenson - regarding Lady in the Water.

 

That man does not shy away from telling a reader that he doesn't approve of their tastes. And then there's his infamous parody 'review' of Clash of the Titans, both simultaneously hilarious, and tragically, epically snobbish.

[Nick1Ø66 8,355]

 

1 hour ago, Richard P said:

That man does not shy away from telling a reader that he doesn't approve of their tastes. And then there's his infamous parody 'review' of Clash of the Titans, both simultaneously hilarious, and tragically, epically snobbish.

 

Well apparently Clemmenson doesn't care for Djawadi, and I guess some people have mixed feelings about him here, but damn if the guy didn't write what is possibly the greatest TV main theme of all time. 

[Romão 2,473]

17 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

 

Well apparently Clemmenson doesn't care for Djawadi, and I guess some people have mixed feelings about him here, but damn if the guy didn't write what is possibly the greatest TV main theme of all time. 

 

That theme? Really? Off all TV themes ever written?

[Nick1Ø66 8,355]

The GOT theme? Yes, I'd rank it among the greatest TV main themes ever written. And personally speaking, it's probably my favourite. 

[Romão 2,473]

2 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

The GOT theme? Yes, I'd rank it among the greatest TV main themes ever written. And personally speaking, it's probably my favourite. 

 

I find it incredibly generic and actually annoying. There's a sort of minor/major mode change at the opening ostinato that is the only mildly interesting thing about it (I'm probably getting my music terminology all wrong, I'm a layman)

 

If that's as good as a TV theme gets, that would be a really bleak scenario.

 

I can understand people liking it and having a fondness for it that is also carried by having a fondness for the show, but I just can't hear anything remarkable in that theme

[Richard P 5,319]

26 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

 

Well apparently Clemmenson doesn't care for Djawadi, and I guess some people have mixed feelings about him here, but damn if the guy didn't write what is possibly the greatest TV main theme of all time. 

 

That's massively understating it. Clemmenson's entire approach to anything RCP consists of finding the odd positive thing to mention, but an overwhelming tone of'wouldn't you rather listen to a real, classically-trained composer write some traditional orchestral music?'. No. No, I wouldn't, thank you 

[Nick1Ø66 8,355]

55 minutes ago, Romão said:

 

I find it incredibly generic and actually annoying. There's a sort of minor/major mode change at the opening ostinato that is the only mildly interesting thing about it (I'm probably getting my music terminology all wrong, I'm a layman)

 

If that's as good as a TV theme gets, that would be a really bleak scenario.

 

I can understand people liking it and having a fondness for it that is also carried by having a fondness for the show, but I just can't hear anything remarkable in that theme

 

What are your favorite TV main themes? And why are they less generic and annoying, and more complex, interesting and remarkable than GOT?

 

[gbatfatf 109]

48 minutes ago, Romão said:

I find it incredibly generic

Yeah, I don’t get the praise for it. It’s not even interesting in a minimalist sort of way. The balances are weird, and the tessituras of the strings make everything sound muddy. 

[Nick1Ø66 8,355]

3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

That's nothing to what Nick Meyer wrote!

 

It was Meyer! Thank you and fixed! (with apologies to Lucas Kendall).

[Jay 46,468]

1 hour ago, Romão said:

 

That theme? Really? Off all TV themes ever written?

 

Game Of Thrones?  Absolutely, without question.

[Naïve Old Fart 13,070]

 

7 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

It was Meyer! Thank you and fixed! (with apologies to Lucas Kendall).

Didn't Meyer call the score 'ingratiating'?

Bloody cheek.

[Jay 46,468]

1 hour ago, Romão said:

I find it incredibly generic and actually annoying. There's a sort of minor/major mode change at the opening ostinato that is the only mildly interesting thing about it (I'm probably getting my music terminology all wrong, I'm a layman)

 

If that's as good as a TV theme gets, that would be a really bleak scenario.

 

I can understand people liking it and having a fondness for it that is also carried by having a fondness for the show, but I just can't hear anything remarkable in that theme

 

This is a hot take!

[Nick1Ø66 8,355]

Yeah, I don't see the minimalism and supposed "simplicity" of the GOT theme as a bug, it's a feature. The simplicity is part of its greatness.

 

The rhythm is...what? Pure galloping momentum, that's what. Which beautifully pairs with the map animation in the opening titles, and the journey across vast distances that make up so much of the show.

 

The relentless repetition which seems "simple" superbly pairs with the "interlocking gearbox" in the animation, like it's an unstoppable machine..."the wheel".  I'm not sure I've ever seen such a perfect match of visuals and music in TV show's opening titles.

 

2 hours ago, Romão said:

There's a sort of minor/major mode change at the opening ostinato that is the only mildly interesting thing about it

 

The music never settles on a single emotion. That "minor/major mode change" is more than just interesting, it's a statement of the show's whole thesis...lots of shifting alliances, turns of fortune, no purely good or evil characters, etc. Every victory is followed by some gut wrenching tragedy. Oh, look, Eddard Stark's going to live. Ooops, not so much.  All is forgiven, Rob Snow, let's have a wedding! 

 

If you want to make beautiful music, you have to play both the black and white keys my friends.

 

Is it subversive? Absolutely. It doesn't tell us who to root for, there's nothing "heroic" about the theme, and it sounds nothing like what audiences normally associate with an epic fantasy theme. As it should be, given that both the show and book are a subversion of the genre.

 

2 hours ago, Romão said:

If that's as good as a TV theme gets, that would be a really bleak scenario.

 

If the point of a main theme isn't some nod to supposed "complexity" (ugh), but rather something that compliments the opening titles it accompanies, reflects the show's tone, and creates something memorable for audiences, it's hard to think of one that does it better than GOT.

 

 

[gbatfatf 109]

58 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

it's hard to think of one that does it better than GOT.

Voyager, written by a guy who knew the orchestra and didn't compose on a computer, and for non-orchestral, it's damn tough to beat Cheers.

[Nick1Ø66 8,355]

18 hours ago, Richard P said:

Clemmenson's entire approach to anything RCP consists of finding the odd positive thing to mention, but an overwhelming tone of'wouldn't you rather listen to a real, classically-trained composer write some traditional orchestral music?'.

 

All things being equal, would I "rather listen to a real, classically-trained composer write some traditional orchestral music?" The answer, as it is to most things is...it depends.

 

Mostly, yes. By a large I like scores that are orchestral, composed by classical trained composers. And even occasionally by some classically trained composers who also dabbled in jazz. What can I say, I'm a traditionalist. If I listed my Top ten scores, all ten would be orchestral composed by the usual and unsurprising list of great film composers everyone here knows and loves.

But...but...would I want every score to be like that? No way. There are plenty of films, many I love, that don't feature what we'd call a traditional orchestral score but are nonetheless superb, some of which I'm sure were composed on a computer. And for that reason I reject this, as Chen would put it, Luddism that a composer who writes on a computer, or doesn't use a full orchestra, is somehow lesser.

 

Before computers it was denigrating composers who used electronic instruments, before that it was mocking the synthesizer crowd as “button‑pushers,” before that it was sneering at electric guitars as “not real instruments,” before that it was complaining about amplified instruments corrupting the purity of the concert hall, before that it was grumbling about the piano being too loud and vulgar compared to the harpsichord, before that it was side‑eyeing the violin as an uncouth street instrument unworthy of serious music, before that it was accusing the organ of being an unnatural mechanical monstrosity, before that it was condemning polyphony as decadent noise that would surely doom Western civilization, before that it was denouncing musical notation itself as a dangerous new technology that would destroy the oral tradition, and before that I'm sure someone was complaining that artists were using fancy new charcoal instead of good old ochre to make their cave paintings.

 

TLDR: While AI is another kettle of fish altogether, as long as it's a human who's doing the composing and performing, I'm OK with whatever tools they want to use to do so and whoever disagrees is a knuckle-dragging luddite.

 

-Nick, who composed this on his MacBook Air.

 

 

 

[Chen G. 6,166]

15 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

ll, before that it was grumbling about the pianoforte being too loud and vulgar compared to the harpsichord, before that it was side‑eyeing the violin as an uncouth street instrument unworthy of serious music, before that it was accusing the organ of being an unnatural mechanical monstrosity, before that it was condemning polyphony as decadent noise that would surely doom Western civilization, before that it was denouncing musical notation itself as a dangerous new technology that would destroy the oral tradition…etc, etc, etc.

 

Also that period where valve horns and trumpets were looked at as inferior to "natural" horns and trumpets which literally required unscrewing and screwing different crooks for different keys, with the claim that these new instruments don't produce satisfactory legato.

[gbatfatf 109]

2 hours ago, Richard P said:

wouldn't you rather listen to a real, classically-trained composer write some traditional orchestral music?

Why yes, yes I would. This is a John Williams forum, correct?

[Richard P 5,319]

I don't have any strong affinity to the main title version of the GoT theme, but I do like the variations throughout the score. I've never seen a full episode of the show (I saw a bit of a battle scene while heavily jet lagged in my brother's apartment in 2015), so I have zero idea what is being scored, but I love all eight albums to bits.

 

Haunting, atmospheric... mythical: (mainly 1:10 onwards - those chords are gorgeous)

 

 

Energetic and exciting:

 

 

And I'd forgotten about this one:

 

 

[BloodBoal 8,724]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

TLDR: While AI is another kettle of fish altogether

 

Why? It's just the next step in human evolution. 

[Smeltington 2,020]

We had a good run, time to step aside for the new em-dash overlords.

[Chen G. 6,166]

The Game of Thrones thing is in effect just an ostinato. It's understandable that a John Williams forum will asser the primacy of a long-limbed, "quadratic" melody over a short, reiterated ostinato, but the fact of the matter is ostinati have their uses. Pieces like the Verwandlungmusik from Parsifal would scarcely be concievable as a melodic passage: its existence is wholly predicated on the "Bell" ostinato. To sit through a passage like this and grumble about the absence of melody would  be silly:

 

 

[Smeltington 2,020]

The Peter Gunn theme had a great ostinato!

[Chen G. 6,166]

Williams does ostinati, too, of course! But they're more prevalent as structural devices in his later oeuvre. "Classic" Williams is much more melodic.

[Smeltington 2,020]

He did start to lean on them more heavily, as trends in film scoring moved in that direction. In a score like Minority Report, he still sounded like he was adapting to the times, using ostinati to bring his sound closer to the modern idiom.

[Jay 46,468]

The GOT ostinato is very similar to this bit from Attack of the Clones

 

 

But what makes the GOT theme great is the main melody anyway, not the ostinato.

[Jill Sandwich 11,208]

He finally caught up with the 21st century.

[Chen G. 6,166]

4 minutes ago, Jill Sandwich said:

He finally caught up with the 21st century.

 

Also the 19th century. It's a basic component of the musical language of Haydn, Beethoven, Weber, Marschner, Wagner and to some extent Berlioz.

 

Williams in this sense has more in common with Mozart, Spohr, Mendelsohn, Chopin and the Italian "school"...

[Edmilson 12,417]

I mean, like him or not (and, to be honest, there's not that many stuff from him that I dig, one them being the one scored that caused this discussion: 2010 Clash of the Titans), but he does have a knack for writing themes that enter the public consciousness, especially among those who don't follow film scores.

 

There's the GoT theme, yes, but also Pacific Rim:

 

 

I remember back in the 2000s his Prison Break theme was pretty famous:

 

 

Even though the show has never been as popular as GoT, his Westworld theme was also noted by the non-film score fans who saw it.

 

 

And aside from the main theme from GoT, there was also this cue from Season 6 that also bursted our little bubble and became wildly popular. Even my mom paid attention to it, and she doesn't even know who John Williams, Hans Zimmer and Danny Elfman are:

 

 

Now, of course the guy has composed a lot of anonymous stuff, and he of course was lucky to be hired to some pretty popular productions. But yes, I do think he can write music that non-score fans actually take notice of.

[Jay 46,468]

Oh man, Pacific Rim, I used to love that score!  I haven't listened to it in ages now.

 

I always thought it was weird the way that track starts, mid-riff.  I was not surprised to learn later that the first 23 seconds in that track are just a portion of a film cue (1M3 The Becket Boys) while the rest of the track is Main On Ends.

 

Though strangely even in the film cue, the riff starts awkwardly (23 seconds in coincidentally)

 

 

 

 

[Jill Sandwich 11,208]

29 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Also the 19th century. It's a basic component of the musical language of Haydn, Beethoven, Weber, Marschner, Wagner and to some extent Berlioz.

 

Williams in this sense has more in common with Mozart, Spohr, Mendelsohn, Chopin and the Italian "school"...

 

Omg you're boring!