What to expect from Episode VIII's Score?

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Most impressive!

[Scarpia 132]

It's record time, considering the quality of the composition, and the basic means that were used to produce it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Basic means?

[Scarpia 132]

Chronometer, paper and pencil.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And a piano.

[Damien F 1,742]

With Luke back in the picture, I hope we finally get a theme for the power coverters from Tosche station.

[leeallen01 2,136]

We already have : 

 

 

 

 

Though I think Williams hired Daft Punk to score that scene.

[crumbs 14,306]

Daft Punk actually wrote Dex's Diner.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

Just had a little thought, does anybody think it would be kind of cool if Williams used those short rhythmic motifs for Han's death in "Torn Apart" as some kind of emotional signal for Kylo in 8? I know that's probably unlikely, but I just think it'd be interesting for it to make a reprisal at some point. I can imagine him talking to Snoke or something about Han and that motif coming back.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

6 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

Just had a little thought, does anybody think it would be kind of cool if Williams used those short rhythmic motifs for Han's death in "Torn Apart" as some kind of emotional signal for Kylo in 8? I know that's probably unlikely, but I just think it'd be interesting for it to make a reprisal at some point. I can imagine him talking to Snoke or something about Han and that motif coming back.

That was a great tension (and I guess horror?) piece. It seems to work well with Kylo Ren's other motifs in a way that it almost sounds like another signifier for his character/actions.

 

We have: 

- The theme accompanying him first landing in the shuttle as his Darth Vader-like authoritarian and evil theme

- The theme of conflict and tragedy of Kylo Ren's life similar to 'Anakin's Dark Deeds'

 

We could have:

- The theme of Kylo Ren's sin/fall.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'd love to see Williams return to the (long forgotten) B section of Luke's Theme. There were some killer variations in Battle of Endor but it's been strangely absent since.

 

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I only recall the variation in Into The Trap.

[nightscape94 965]

On Monday, January 04, 2016 at 7:35 AM, dfenton85 said:

Actually, he might even conduct it during that Philly concert in a few months.

 

I'm hoping for a few TFA performances during that concert!  Jedi Step would be cool.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

I guess now we know what the cover art will look like...

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

You forgot the emboss

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

Now is not the time for emboss. That comes later. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's not Star Wars without the emboss!

[crumbs 14,306]

What about the free screensavers?

[Arpy 4,145]

Maybe they'll release a 2 disc set upfront? I can dream...

[Will 2,215]

6 minutes ago, RPurton said:

Maybe they'll release a 2 disc set upfront? I can dream...

 

Well, they didn't do it for TFA, so don't get your hopes up. 

 

You have to imagine that it's Williams himself that doesn't want a two disc release. I mean, Disney would probably love to release one, right? Warner Bros. did for FB, and Disney released a vinyl and cassette TFA OST! They'd probably love to do a CD deluxe edition! 

 

In an interview about TFA he did mention being constricted by disc space, but I wonder if that was just an excuse. 

[Jay 37,346]

John Williams is too modest for that! 

[Arpy 4,145]

I'm not expecting anything other than the embossed packaging!

[King Mark 3,631]

I'm not expecting more than 59 minutes of music

[skyy38 21]

2 hours ago, Will said:

 

Well, they didn't do it for TFA, so don't get your hopes up. 

 

You have to imagine that it's Williams himself that doesn't want a two disc release. I mean, Disney would probably love to release one, right? Warner Bros. did for FB, and Disney released a vinyl and cassette TFA OST! They'd probably love to do a CD deluxe edition! 

 

In an interview about TFA he did mention being constricted by disc space, but I wonder if that was just an excuse. 

"Disc Space?"

Really?

THE TOWERING INFERNO can be fit on ONE disc and be in shape, and THAT is a movie that was re-issued 10 years ago!

And WHY would someone like John Williams be concerned about "Disc Space" when the man has worked with pencil and paper since day one?

[Arpy 4,145]

The Second Coming of Skyy38! He Is Risen!

 

Whether or not Williams truly was constricted by disc space is yet to be, if ever, revealed. 

[Incanus 5,714]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

John Williams is too modest for that! 

We should phone Mike Matessino and ask him to convince Williams that 2 discs is what the fans really want. They can do 1 disc release for casual SW fans.

[artguy360 1,843]

I wish we could know what new themes there are. I think The Last Jedi will have a new relationship theme like how ESB had Han and Leia's Theme, AOTC had Across the Stars, ROTJ had Luke and Leia. But what relationship will be in the film to get theme treatment? And will there be some new bad guy motif or something more developed like the Imperial March? I'd love to hear a counterpart to The March of the Resistance. 

[Incanus 5,714]

I'd love to hear Kylo Ren's theme expanded into something militaristic and more fully developed in the sequels. Perhaps some new idea for the First Order would also be in order.

[crumbs 14,306]

I think the First Order will get a proper, expanded new theme (the signature bad guy theme for the trilogy) while Rey and Luke will end up with a new theme that derives from both their solo themes and possibly becomes the New Jedi Order theme by Episode IX.

[artguy360 1,843]

Despite my above comment, I don't see a First Order theme coming outside of possibly a motif like the Trade Federation motif. The prequels went 3 movies without a major bad guy theme, instead relying on a collection of motifs like the Trade Federation stuff, General Grevious' bit, some Sith music, quotes of the Emperor's theme, etc. TFA played out that same way with Kylo Ren's 2 motifs, Snoke's droning choir, and possibly some descending brass material that someone mentioned in another thread. There's a general collection of bad guy music and I could see that being the direction for the rest of this trilogy. I really do hope we get a relationship theme though. 

[Incanus 5,714]

The Prequels really didn't have one overarching villain (Palpatine was in hiding most of the time) so there was no chance for a single villain theme to emerge as every episode had different villain in the spotlight. TFA was a bit like ANH in that it had a villain with a motif or motifs (Imperial motif and Death Star in ANH and Kylon Ren's two distinct motifs in TFA) so JW could well expand Kylo's material into a new more elaborate theme or create completely new one for him. I'd love to hear a long lined melody forged out of the established two ideas, which might perhaps take a most Imperial March like guise to double as an idea for the First Order. Hope springs eternal.

[artguy360 1,843]

That would be great but JW has never revisited prior motifs in this way as far as I know. We've speculated on this forum about how JW will "evolve" Rey's Theme as well but I don't see that happening either, even given JW's enthusiasm to continue to write for the character. There just isn't a track record of JW doing that kind of thing. Typically JW sequel scores feature quotes of previous themes within the context of new themes that make up the core of the new score. I imagine TLJ will play out the same way. That's why I could see a Rey and Luke type theme mentioned above. Although maybe an argument can be made that Han and Leia's theme and Luke and Leia's Theme are both built on the bones of Leia's Theme and so are evolutions of that music. Maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

6 hours ago, Will said:

You have to imagine that it's Williams himself that doesn't want a two disc release. I mean, Disney would probably love to release one, right?

 

Why would Disney love that?

[crumbs 14,306]

53 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

I really do hope we get a relationship theme though. 

 

I'd guess it'll be a relationship theme for Luke and Rey or just an entirely new theme for Rey. Williams was already pondering "what to write next" for her back in August -- that comment stuck out to me, as if he wasn't content merely rehashing the existing theme for VIII like he has for other characters (albeit brilliantly and with great diversity).

 

23 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Why would Disney love that?

 

Surely you realise how Star Wars merchandise works? There are fans who literally buy everything. Two different soundtracks means two revenue streams, especially if each one contains music not included on the other (see The Hobbit releases). There would be fans who actually bought the TFA OST on CD, casette and vinyl, for real.

 

It's the whole concept of double dipping on the same product, which studios embrace at every opportunity. Already got the Bluray? Get it again, in 3D! Already got it in 3D? Get it again with new special features and deleted scenes! Already got the special edition? Get the 4K HDR deluxe edition!

 

Lucas made billions doing this, Disney will be no different. Even better for them, this music already exists, they own it, and it's collecting dust on a hard drive until they slap it on a CD with new artwork.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crumbs 14,306]

What if the deluxe edition had embossed text and screensavers though?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crumbs 14,306]

Don't forget this marketing beauty:

 

 

Can you imagine how many suckers bought all 4 versions?

 

Would've been nice if they at least put a different bonus cue on each version. Jerks!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

4 hours ago, Incanus said:

I'd love to hear Kylo Ren's theme expanded into something militaristic and more fully developed in the sequels. 

 

This is what I'd love for the Resistance March, I want to hear that badass alternate with full snares and cymbal crash accompaniment. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Than we can be pretty sure Williams will never go near either theme again!

 

Bwahahahahaha!

[Will 2,215]

By the way you all are forgetting several First Order motifs from TFA -- Snoke's theme (one well known variation being choral) and two general First Order themes. 

 

@BloodBoal and @crumbs, I can't even remember exactly what I was suggesting, but you both made good points in your posts.

 

I do remember FB (regular with no exclusive content and deluxe).

 

Even if Disney didn't do that, which might not be good enough to get people to double dip, you'd think they'd release an isolated score or something (yes, I doubt it would be perfect) within a few months (or at just a version with a little more music). 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I doubt I would be able to recognize them unless they were pointed out.

[Will 2,215]

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

I doubt I would be able to recognize them unless they were pointed out.

 

Those themes I mentioned?

 

I can give time stamps when I get home. They are rather obscure, particularly because the biggest appearance of two was dialed out.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Cheers

[Will 2,215]

@Stefancos

 

Some examples (not quite all, although these themes aren't too prominent):

 

What I call "Snoke's theme" (thanks to Marcus for the discovery!):

 

The four notes heard over the ostinato here:

 

 

And here:

 

 

 

What I call "The First Order A theme" (sort of my discovery, I believe):

 

 

Also watch this (theme first heard at 0:24):

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jiql72jh7bppy3g/TFA - Parade Grounds (Score Restore).mp4?dl=0

 

And there's this:

 

 

The theme is four notes.

 

What I currently call the "First Order B theme" -- but could actually be for the Resistance, I suppose:

 

The melody heard at :02 --

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9cEg3TElmWGdUdW8/view (this awesome cue is from the opening village attack; seems a little too heroic to be a First Order theme, though? Perhaps actually underscored Poe running and fighting?)

 

And at :35 in the Dropbox score restore -- interestingly, while the scene is about the First Order, this is right after the Resistance is mentioned in the speech.

 

Most supporting a Resistance association is the usage here:

 

 

In the film, I just checked and that covers the scene where Han and Chewie enter the base and Finn and Rey open the doors from the control room. First Order personnel aren't even on camera when that theme is playing.

 

But it's bizarre because the Resistance already has a major theme! Maybe it's a variation of that? 

 

Hmmm.

[crumbs 14,306]

So... who thinks JW will top Rey's Theme in TLJ? I wouldn't be surprised if he created an entirely new theme for her escapades with Luke. He never seems particularly interested in reusing existing themes when he has a chance to write new ones, unless specifically asked to.

 

Considering he was pondering "what to write next" as far back as August, that seems to indicate he was intending to write an entirely new theme rather than just find new ways to present his old ones.

[artguy360 1,843]

Its an interesting situation. I too do not think JW will write an evolution of Rey's Theme or iterate on it significantly. He just doesn't have a history of revisiting themes like that. Personally, I am predicting the new major theme for TLJ will be a relationship theme like Han and Leia's theme or Luke and Leia. Rey's theme will be featured where appropriate in the score but I think it will also take a back seat to new material. 

 

I don't know if he can top Rey's theme though. The piece is so precise with all of its different components, it says so much about her character and its concert arrangement is both nearly exhaustive and very brisk. 

[crumbs 14,306]

Rey's Theme definitely personifies the maturity of JW's current output. He's long transcended the concept of "film music," but his concert pieces now transcend the films for which they are written. Their level of complexity, the depth of orchestration, the precision of his writing, he simply doesn't waste a note.

 

Personally, I don't believe Williams could write a piece like Rey's Theme even ten years ago. It's a work that reflects his stature and experience, without an inch of cynicism or the seeming ease of the bombastic writing he traditionally revels in with this series (see March of the Resistance).

 

Suffice to say, I might actually be anticipating The Last Jedi even more than I was The Force Awakens. Williams is now building off his solid base of musical foundations, alongside a director whose output surely ranks as some of the most promising of any young modern filmmaker.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I don't think any new TLJ theme will be able to top Rey's but the underscore/villain's material/action music/in-film presence can all be improved.