The Force Awakens Scherzo for X-Wings

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The more complex or daring music is, or the more different it is from what you expect/want it to be, the more time it takes to understand and appreciate.  Familiarity breeds fondness.  I'm sure we all love some music that at first hearing made us raise our eyebrows.  I love that experience, it's very rewarding.  This also makes it very exciting to be a composer in the 21st century.  Write whatever you want, or improvise freely, and listen to it repeatedly.  What at first might seem like nonsense starts to make sense.  Part of that is good underlying musical instinct dictating even our "random" choices, but even more of it is just this weird thing that happens when even the strangest or most incoherent things suddenly take on great logic and meaning once you're exposed to them enough.  I suppose it's because beyond the actual scientific, physical reasons for the "sense" of tonality, there's no inherent meaning in sound, only what we put onto it ourselves.  And we can do that with any sounds, as long as we're familiar enough with them.

 

Incidentally, I think that's the current key to writing fresh and substantial music: being willing to grope along in the dark a little bit, not knowing where you're going or what the heck it's going to sound like exactly.  As familiar musical structures become more and more saturated with equally familiar rhetorical/dramatic/psychological meaning, you have to be open to the unfamiliar to say anything new or different.  Just as verbal language evolves and grows to fit new expressive needs, so does musical language.

 

As a fun experiment for anyone interested, consider this piece I just posted in the classical music thread.  I reckon it'll be at least "challenging" to anyone on a first listen.  But listen to it a number of times, even just small sections since it's long, and see if it doesn't start to make perfect sense.  Maybe it won't, and I'm full of shit, but let's find out definitively.

 

 

 

[Hlao-roo 389]

Is it OK for a piece of film music to be growery? Or is it incumbent upon the composer to strive for a more immediate impact, especially if he's writing for mainstream fare?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

7 minutes ago, Hlao-roo said:

Is it OK for a piece of film music to be growery? Or is it incumbent upon the composer to strive for a more immediate impact, especially if he's writing for mainstream fare?

 

I suppose that depends on what the overall intentions of the director and composer and other filmmakers are rather than having an absolute yes or no answer.  Which is fine, since  music that makes an immediate impact and music that takes great time to understand are both desirable and enriching things.  Like in any art form, there's room for stuff that provides both of those experiences.

[Loert 2,511]

IMO the only requirement of a film score is that it has to support the film. Qualities such as "hummability" are merely incidental (no pun intended).

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Almost every score "supports the film". There's gotta be a bit more then that.

[Loert 2,511]

*supports the film well

[Datameister 2,041]

5 hours ago, Hlao-roo said:

 

 

What is it that makes this score so growery? And are there any JW scores that people find shrinkery?

 

I would certainly say there are some Williams scores that are more ungrowery, if not outright shrinkery.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

5 hours ago, Hlao-roo said:

Is it OK for a piece of film music to be growery? Or is it incumbent upon the composer to strive for a more immediate impact, especially if he's writing for mainstream fare?

To be honest I'm finding some of the prequel tracks quite dull now, specifically the big action set-piece moments. It doesn't have that dynamic and shifting turn that I've come to love in TFA and all falls rather flat for me now.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

2 hours ago, Hlao-roo said:

Is it OK for a piece of film music to be growery? Or is it incumbent upon the composer to strive for a more immediate impact, especially if he's writing for mainstream fare?

 

This relates to a thought I had after my second viewing, which was whether or not Rey's Theme is distinctive enough as a hook, especially the first 6 notes standalone. For one thing, you only really get three big, loud statements of the full theme in the film (and one of them -- The Abduction -- is nearly buried under loads of explosions), plus some quieter statements, but otherwise a lot of its recognition rides on those first 6 notes. How much do they say by themselves, especially in "Ways of the Force"? When he starts spinning variations, of course WE know what we're listening for, but how many viewers will realize that this is Rey's theme for example?

 

 

 

 

It's a little unusual for this series. Normally, a Star Wars theme is pretty much always the same whenever it appears. There's nothing to figure out, it's instantly identifiable. But Rey's theme is treated with more flexibility than I can remember with the other core material in this franchise. That's appealing to me as an active listener, but I feel like this score required more investigation on my part than usual for Star Wars. What does that say? Is it clever or just confusing?

 

These subtle variations that are harder to pick up on...is it a good thing that we have to really strain to hear Han/Leia's theme in Torn Apart, or as a piece of film music should we have known it was there the instant Leia reacted? Or is it even important that we hear it?

[DarthDementous 1,059]

7 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

These subtle variations that are harder to pick up on...is it a good thing that we have to really strain to hear Han/Leia's theme in Torn Apart, or as a piece of film music should we have known it was there the instant Leia reacted? Or is it even important that we hear it?

Examples like that are usually designed to work on a sub-conscious level. Through analysis we can appreciate this but its meant to subtly inform the emotion of the moment as its being watched.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's a stronger score than AOTC, but that's about it. It's thematically more cohesive than Sith, but it never quite reaches the epicness of that score.

[nightscape94 965]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

It's a little unusual for this series. Normally, a Star Wars theme is pretty much always the same whenever it appears. There's nothing to figure out, it's instantly identifiable. But Rey's theme is treated with more flexibility than I can remember with the other core material in this franchise. That's appealing to me as an active listener, but I feel like this score required more investigation on my part than usual for Star Wars. What does that say? Is it clever or just confusing?

 

These subtle variations that are harder to pick up on...is it a good thing that we have to really strain to hear Han/Leia's theme in Torn Apart, or as a piece of film music should we have known it was there the instant Leia reacted? Or is it even important that we hear it?

The nature of Rey's theme, how there's a rhythmic identifier as well as a proper multi-sectioned theme which is adaptable to extreme differences in mood and settings, is my favorite part of the entire score.  That theme is what makes the score sound fresh and alive.

[Miz 139]

I agree Rey's theme is the strongest part of the score, and possibly the only robust and lasting element of it. The action music is well-written and works in film, but continues to fail to hold me when listened alone. The old themes punctuating Falcon and Scherzo are too incongruous with Williams' modern style and even he can't blend them. They are satisfying signposts, but too spare to really 'make' each track.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I think there is a certain awkwardness to the rebel fanfare statements in those tracks, but I took it as intentional.  That is, it sounds a little off-key almost, though I wouldn't know how to describe it with no musical training, and I interpreted that as Williams inserting a little comedy about how the characters see the Falcon as a piece of junk.  I thought it was a great touch.

[Balahkay 627]

Those moments sound fine to me.  I hear a lot of vintage Williams throughout the score.

[Jilal 569]

The Rebel Fanfare (consisting of parallel major triads mostly a minor third apart) is essentially derived from the "Cowboy Half-Cadence" (bVII - V - I), formally known as the Subtonic Half-Cadence (S-HC), in Luke's theme, which does have a bit of an Americana sounding jumpiness to it (mostly due to its use in a lot of western scores, including Williams's The Cowboy) so that might explain why it sounds a bit awkward to your ears, Taikomochi.

[Loert 2,511]

What might also be "quirky" about the usage of the Rebel fanfare in those tracks is the choice of instrumentation, e.g. muted trumpets instead of trumpets in The Falcon.

[Nemesis 245]

20 hours ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

It's a stronger score than AOTC, but that's about it. It's thematically more cohesive than Sith, but it never quite reaches the epicness of that score.

 

So, epic is better?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Star Wars isnt as epic as ROTS either. I guess thats no good then.

 

 

[Nemesis 245]

Hmm...I think you're right.

[Balahkay 627]

Star Wars was considered epic at the time but Williams gave us a different epic (and apparently now modern epic) with TPM.  I'm glad Williams given us a new, different yet familiar Star Wars sound for TFA without relying on loud and in your face music.

[steb74 53]

3 hours ago, Alexander said:

The Rebel Fanfare (consisting of parallel major triads mostly a minor third apart) is essentially derived from the "Cowboy Half-Cadence" (bVII - V - I), formally known as the Subtonic Half-Cadence (S-HC), in Luke's theme,

 

Yeah, you bring up one of my favourite points about Luke's theme, it seems the OT has never been deconstructed here the way TFA has with regards to connections between themes and motifs and how they may be derived from each other, etc.

 

Maybe it hardly registers consciously but by sharing such identifiable and intervallic characteristics, having the A section of the Rebel Fanfare derived from the cadence you mentioned in Luke's theme is so key in helping to glue those two ideas together .....even though at the beginning of the movie Luke's heroic dreams feel so out of reach for him..

He fantasizes about them but more than likely believes that there is no hope of ever leaving the farm. Destiny has other plans.

The melody which plays over that cadence is one of variations of the fate/destiny motif (dies irae), like the almost apocalyptic rendition during Burning Homestead, so most of Luke's journey is written into his musical DNA, by superimposing the fate motif over the rebel fanfare we have part of Luke's theme, it's incredible and it's almost impossible for those ideas not to have a feeling of inevitability while working together throughout the whole score's musical journey ....and Luke's!

 

There are Force Theme connections too but that's another story.

 

 

https://www.noteflight.com/scores/view/99f7741cb59c958bd826037aee8a1b78a32e182d

 

 

[Nemesis 245]

Interesting!

Is this also Dies Irae?

[pro-arte 22]

On 14/1/2016 at 7:55 PM, nightscape94 said:

Opposite from most people's reaction, I loved it immediately.  The tempo is fine, doesn't need to be, and doesn't sound better at, a faster tempo.  Love that he uses the main/Luke theme as an action set piece, which he had never done in this way before.

Here is a version with a faster tempo

 

 

[aj_vader 534]

39 minutes ago, pro-arte said:

Here is a version with a faster tempo

 

 

Is that digitally time stretched? or a real take?

[pro-arte 22]

I did time stretched a bit at the 4 tuttis at the begening of the track and added harp glissandi before the end of the track

[Nemesis 245]

Hmm, I'm not very fond of the faster tempo. I like it when the little things that are going on are played out well.

[nightscape94 965]

Appreciated the upload of the faster version for the sake of comparison, but my original opinion stands!

 

 

 

[Taikomochi 1,136]

It's nice to hear in higher tempo, but, yeah, it sounds a little awkward, too much happening too fast.  I am glad it was performed in the tempo it is on album.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed! 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Here's a real performance at a faster tempo, for comparison:

 

 

 

[Nemesis 245]

Thing is, many people think faster is better.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

In that case, it is!

[Jay 37,346]

Cremeritis, BloodBoal!

On 1/14/2016 at 10:24 AM, Jay said:

Like this?

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25891-the-united-states-army-field-band-premieres-force-awakens-music-live/

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

No, I know it was posted before, but I reposted it because it seemed pro-arte, Nemesis, nightscape and co didn't see that one.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's not Cremeritis!

 

You have Cremeritis is you link to a website that another member linked to in that same thread not too long ago.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

LeBlanc is just mad at me for saying he had Cremeritis after he posted that link in the Poster Trend thread.

[Jay 37,346]

Nope.

[Nemesis 245]

20 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

In that case, it is!

Sure baby.

[nightscape94 965]

31 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

No, I know it was posted before, but I reposted it because it seemed pro-arte, Nemesis, nightscape and co didn't see that one.

 

I knew about it already, I was thanking him for a sped up version of the orchestral version for better comparison.  Don't lump me in with those poor Cremeritis sufferers!

[DominicCobb 194]

It'd be interesting to hear this track with only the Luke's theme bits sped up.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wanna hear a version with every other note sped up!

[leeallen01 2,136]

I adore the little statement of the first six notes of Rey's Theme at 1:28.

[aviazn 273]

On 1/17/2016 at 4:30 AM, DominicCobb said:

It'd be interesting to hear this track with only the Luke's theme bits sped up.

 

Ok, here's one.

 

 

I agree—the problem isn't that the overall tempo is slow, just that it drags over the course of the track, and it's been bothering me enough over the past month that I decided to finally try an edit. I left the tempo as is at the beginning and just kept bumping it up during the track to try to keep it steady. By the end, the file about 4% faster, and the tempo is still a bit slower than the opening. But I'm happy enough with it that I'm moving it back into my TFA playlist.

[DominicCobb 194]

^Sounds pretty good to me!