DarthDementous 1,250 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 I'm pretty sure I can deduce what many people think of Kevin Kiner's scoring abilities for Star Wars and its a sentiment I share as well. however, this may be the nostalgia talking but in Knights of the Old Republic 2 Mark Griskey composed a score that was very rich in atmosphere with a very distinct Star Wars sound. where I think he stands out compared to other imitators is that the score for KOTOR 2 has its own unique and consistent flavour to it while providing memorable themes and moments of music. people like Gordy Haab have the aesthetic nailed down but a lot of the William-isms just wash over me as I listen, and I can scarcely remember any moments of music (bar a few parts from Star Wars Battlefront). I also noticed that the way Griskey does action music is similar to some moments in ESB (can't cite anything right now) but has a tribal flavour which is appropriate for it being in the era of ancient Star Wars. Take a listen for yourselves and tell me what you think: here are some good examples of new themes: 0:37 - Main theme 2:46/21:30 - The Sith/Darkside motif 4:31 - Ebon Hawk theme 8:29 - Peragus theme 7:24 - Kreia's theme 12:42 - Wandering Droid (only comedic theme in the entire game) 18:54 - Remains of the Jedi motif 20:51 - Nar Shaddaa 22:36 - Jek Jek Tarr (pretty eerie theme, scores some weird cantina-type place on Nar Shaddaa) 30:55 - Temple of Freedon Nadd 31:53 - Mandalorian motif 36:10 - Cantina Music 37:10 - Dantooine 41:15 - Korriban 44:48 - Sith Tomb 45:10 - Royal Palace 46:15 - Rebuilt Jedi Enclave (the crowning glory of this soundtrack imo) 47:31 - Darth Nihilus 52:05 - Darth Sion 53:30 - The Final Battle I'll post his SWTOR contributions if anyone is interested (he was the lead composer on it but not all pieces were done by him) haha listening to this again made me realise there's practically no upbeat pieces, I'm such a downer when it comes to music. EDIT: - is it just me or does 3:56 sound like something John Williams used in a piece for a scene on Tattooine? - 19:41 shows how having real instruments goes along way. the synth composition sounds very weird to the rest of the soundtrack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crossfader 583 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,250 Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 there's some pieces that weren't in the soundtrack: short but epic rendition of 'The Sith' motif not in the actual game, meant to play over a cut droid planet. sounds very mechanical and robotic, which is fitting. really uplifting piece, like some kind of melancholic victory. more indicative of his later SWTOR work. and here's the finale piece: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy 68 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 No, although I like his work very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,446 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,250 Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 10/10 discussion guys. who would you suggest is better? I don't know of any others that can nail the Star Wars aesthetic while still retaining originality, feel free to set me straight. comments like 'Who?' are pretty pointless though considering I outlined who it was in the original post: mostly known for composing Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Star Wars the Old Republic but also worked on other Star Wars games (I don't consider the Force Unleashed stuff to be as good though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy 68 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 While Griskey's KOTOR 2 is very much to my liking and themes are indeed memorable I didn't get "wow sounds like Williams" effect playing the game back in the day. It's simply a solid game soundtrack. His orchestrations and writing are thin (EDIT: in comparison to Williams), especially in battle music, which feels pretty... empty? I find Haab much better fit as "the best person (other than JW) to do Star Wars music". As you wrote he gets Williams' aesthetics right, like nobody else I have heard. It's a shame you have memory problems as far as his music goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Souls blows the rest out of the water. He's the only one not doing an imitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,446 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Joel McNeely! Bryant Burnette and Gnome in Plaid 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Soule's is terrific, compositionally. I just wish it was performed by a live orchestra. GigaStudio (?) doesn't do it justice. My personal favourite is Jesse Harlin's score for Republic Commando. Menacing, austere, and quite moving in places. I wish more SW video game composers had the balls to carry off something like this Edit: Ugh, spellcheck changed compositionally to "computationally", which reads like a backhanded compliment. Darth Crossfader 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Ohhh, that is nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crossfader 583 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 It's incredibly annoying to be able to point out exactly which Williams cues Haab drew from to write his own. One of the above (Sullust's Harsh Terrain?) is at least partially based on REVENGE OF THE SITH's They're Coming Around, for example. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 5,386 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Gordy usually tends to write his own music, which sounds very good. However I think EA told him to stick more toward existing music. I know that's what EA told the composers to do for SWTOR, which turned out a lot like this, reusing a lot of prequel/OT cues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,250 Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 I think Griskey, Soule and Harlin are the only ones to produce memorable scores that still sound like they belong in the Star Wars universe but aren't carbon copies of John Williams. I'm afraid those tracks don't really do much for me, they sound more like the Prequel era (except the Hoth one) which I'm not too fond of when it came to action music. however I do like the second half, the more ambient and less bombastic pieces done by Haab appeal to me more. listening to Haab again makes me really wish he was composing for Star Wars Rebels. however, his SWTOR work shows that Griskey can do the Williams aesthetic while adding a unique flavour. I hear a lot of other influences from composers though: interestingly, this one sounds more like Harry Potter to me, specifically Prisoner of Azkaban. I get a few Ben Hurr vibes from some parts in this. some parts of this fool me into thinking its actually from the Prequels, the action music at least. I suppose its down to whether we want a Williams imitator or someone who takes Star Wars in a new direction while still being faithful to the universe. its hard to explain why KOTOR 2 sounds so Star Wars and different at the same time, I swear there are parts of it that are very similarly orchestrated to Williams. 8 hours ago, Alexander said: It's incredibly annoying to be able to point out exactly which Williams cues Haab drew from to write his own. One of the above (Sullust's Harsh Terrain?) is at least partially based on REVENGE OF THE SITH's They're Coming Around, for example. I think there's a section in 'Alliance on Hoth' that's note for note from one of the action cues in Revenge of the Sith, or at least one of the other prequel movies. 8 hours ago, Sharky said: Soule's is terrific, compositionally. I just wish it was performed by a live orchestra. GigaStudio (?) doesn't do it justice. My personal favourite is Jesse Harlin's score for Republic Commando. Menacing, austere, and quite moving in places. I wish more SW video game composers had the balls to carry off something like this Edit: Ugh, spellcheck changed compositionally to "computationally", which reads like a backhanded compliment. I sort of thing that's part of the charm of Soule, his scores sound very fantastical because they're mostly comprised of synth instruments. he's the only composer I've heard to use synth instruments that work to the overall aesthetic rather than sounding out of place and cheap. @TheGreyPilgrim I have to disagree when it comes to Soule blowing everyone out of the water though, I vastly prefer KOTOR 2's score to KOTOR 1 and I believe that's not doing a Williams imitation either. were the elder scrolls series composed with a proper orchestra? are there any examples of a piece by soule I can listen to that was done by orchestra, I'm curious to hear it considering most of the time its with virtual instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all performed by the Jeremy Soule Virtual Orchestra. Only a small bit of men's choir was recorded for Skyrim - as I noted in another thread, until just the other day, I thought the rest of the choral stuff was real as well, but nope. And discovering that, I bet some of the other small bits that I assumed were real recordings, mostly guitars and small percussion/ethnic instruments, are also just incredibly good samples. You're right that this is part of the charm of his music though. He is one with the machine. Here's the only comparison I'm aware of, and through absolutely no fault of the London Philharmonic, I do prefer the original. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Isn't part of the uniqueness a result of the tuning system he uses? I can't remember what it was... just intonation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 It's A=445, or thereabouts, and something like Pythagorean tuning but not exactly. That and the overblown acoustics are big parts of it, but there's also something I love about every note being played by the composer, sort of like what Hans was saying about his original mockup score for Interstellar. I think at this point, Soule is just like Zimmer or Vangelis, in that even when they're writing for "real" instruments, I'd rather hear their version of it than the real thing, unless as Zimmer often does, they'd rather us hear the real thing. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Republic Commando is indeed awesome, and one of my favorite video game scores, but nothing about it says "Star Wars" to me. I still think McNeely's the only one who's been able to capture that feeling apart from Williams. 8 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: I think at this point, Soule is just like Zimmer or Vangelis, in that even when they're writing for "real" instruments, I'd rather hear their version of it than the real thing, unless as Zimmer often does, they'd rather us hear the real thing. Hearing the POTC Live to Projection concerts might change your opinion on that. "The Kraken" with live musicians is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Nah I've heard that and Gladiator and it hasn't changed my opinion. It's cool, but nah. Besides, The Kraken is recorded with live musicians anyway...most of his scores are. But it's the tweaking that I miss with the live stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,250 Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 wow Skyrim was done with a virtual orchestra? simply incredible that he's able to manipulate technology like that, studios must love him because they don't have to pay for a orchestra or recording sessions when they hire him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,446 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Its still fake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,456 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 If you can hear it, it's as real as it has to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,446 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, Woj said: If you can hear it, it's as real as it has to be. Wut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,456 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Wut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy 68 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Truth be told I like most of the music from Star Wars universe, so I will be content as long as new pieces are created by all those talented composers. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_vader 570 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 I love what Mark Griskey did on the Force Unleashed series. But Gordy Habb is fantastic at writing Star Wars Music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 8 hours ago, DarthDementous said: wow Skyrim was done with a virtual orchestra? simply incredible that he's able to manipulate technology like that, studios must love him because they don't have to pay for a orchestra or recording sessions when they hire him Yeah it's extremely impressive. He's probably the virtuoso of virtual instruments. If not for his music, I'd have a much different opinion of the value of sampling beyond rough mockups - even Zimmer's demos leave you wanting something, but Soule takes it all the way. DarthDementous and Gnome in Plaid 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 17 hours ago, Gnome in Plaid said: Republic Commando is indeed awesome, and one of my favorite video game scores, but nothing about it says "Star Wars" to me. To me it's pure SW--just not Williams's SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,250 Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 perhaps a collaboration would be in order between Haab, Griskey and Harlin like in SWTOR, that certainly produced satisfactory results. I'd include Soule but his style of Star Wars is vastly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,940 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 #Joel #McNeely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy 68 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 27 minutes ago, mstrox said: #Joel #McNeely He's busy scoring 4328948329423th Tinkerbell... Such a waste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,308 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 I'd be really interested to hear James Newton Howard's take on a Star Wars score. Will it ever happen? I highly doubt it. But it'd be a cool experiment. The man can write comfortably in a style that feels similar to Williams without being derivative. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviazn 273 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Just gonna throw Kyle Newmaster's name out there too. He and Haab collaborated on Star Wars Kinect and lots of other SW projects, fan-based and LucasArts. Gordy's getting all the glory for Battlefront (and deservedly so), but Kyle's work on Kinect is some of my favorite non-JW Star Wars music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,768 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Datameister said: I'd be really interested to hear James Newton Howard's take on a Star Wars score. Will it ever happen? I highly doubt it. But it'd be a cool experiment. The man can write comfortably in a style that feels similar to Williams without being derivative. I think he's quasi-retired now that he's done with Hunger Games movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,940 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, Jay said: I think he's quasi-retired now that he's done with Hunger Games movies. The latest issue of FSM Online lists the following movies coming soon from JNH: James Newton Howard · The Huntsman: Winter’s War, Jack Reacher: Never Go Back, All the Way (TV movie). Of course, those could be wrong. They've had Indy V on Williams' list for months, well before the movie itself was even confirmed (Williams is obviously still not officially confirmed), and it currently lists him on Episode VIII without official confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,768 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Henry Jackman is scoring Jack Reacher 2. I didn't realize JNH had scored the Huntsman prequel, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,250 Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 11 hours ago, aviazn said: Just gonna throw Kyle Newmaster's name out there too. He and Haab collaborated on Star Wars Kinect and lots of other SW projects, fan-based and LucasArts. Gordy's getting all the glory for Battlefront (and deservedly so), but Kyle's work on Kinect is some of my favorite non-JW Star Wars music. that's done with a virtual orchestra isn't it? I have to say even if it was done with a full orchestra I do prefer Haab's output on Battlefront at least comparing to this track, parts of it sound a little more Trek than Wars. the track certainly does get better as it goes along though, not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy 68 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Quote that's done with a virtual orchestra isn't it? That's actually London Symphony Orchestra. EDIT: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,250 Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 4 hours ago, zaddini said: That's actually London Symphony Orchestra. EDIT: odd, the first half of that sounds digital for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,446 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Thats why Williams used the Hollywood Symphony for TFA! The LSO has lost it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 966 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Who was that dude who scored that car commercial for Star Wars recently and it sounded like one of the better approximations of Williams' SW sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,768 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Ben Lasker http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25617-the-force-awakens-disney-records-ost/&do=findComment&comment=1164092 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 966 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Cool, give that guy a crack at a legitimate project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,953 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Who??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,446 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 In-fucking-deed! None of these people would be allowed anywhere near a real Star Wars score! JoeinAR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 966 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I assumed all of these people were unrealistic. We're just having a spot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 In fact, they should all be forbidden from writing music! This is JWFAN. JOHN is the REASON to BE here. Who needs these other hacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,446 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 In-fucking-deed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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