WESTWORLD (HBO TV)

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

This virtual "Valley Beyond" must have to be realised in the form of actual matter somewhere in the real world. It seems crucial to have a strategy for ensuring its maintainance, but I didn't notice any mention of this in the episode. Did I miss something important? Is that part of Dolores's objective outside the park?

[Jay 37,353]

Well, Hosts' consciousnesses are all just code, right?  1s and 0s?

 

She used the satellite to beam the data to some data storage somewhere.  Basically "uploaded it to the cloud".

 

Dolores' plan is to kill all humans and take over the earth, I think the Hosts she just uploaded are to give them a happy ending.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

And Maeve's future role? She seemed "messianic" in a way.

[Jay 37,353]

No idea but I'm sure she'll be back

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

[Jay 37,353]

I don't think Westworld is hard to follow at all.

 

Yes, all season long you don't always know what is happening, but the season finales always explain everything.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

Well, Hosts' consciousnesses are all just code, right?  1s and 0s?

 

Sure, but those 1s and 0s are brought about by the behaviour of certain electrons (or whatever) in the hardware which accommodates this data storage. Without a plan to maintain or replace this hardware, all of these consciousnesses are at the mercy of circumstances in the physical world which they apparently have no way of influencing. So when humans blow the planet to smithereens, are the Hosts in the Valley Beyond all just doomed along with it? I find it hard to believe that Ford's plan failed to account for this. So presumably he was counting on other hosts, like Dolores, taking control of the Earth. (Though, in that case, I'm somewhat confused about what his ultimate vision for the future of Hostkind actually was...)

 

24 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think the Hosts she just uploaded are to give them a happy ending.

 

Without security in the long-term maintainence of the system, that happy ending just seems like a slightly prolonged version of running off the cliff!

[Jay 37,353]

44 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

So when humans blow the planet to smithereens, are the Hosts in the Valley Beyond all just doomed along with it?

 

Yes

 

Quote

I find it hard to believe that Ford's plan failed to account for this. So presumably he was counting on other hosts, like Dolores, taking control of the Earth. (Though, in that case, I'm somewhat confused about what his ultimate vision for the future of Hostkind actually was...)

 

I don't think there's reason to be confused, because I don't think that's something we're supposed to know yet.  Surely, we'll learn more about Ford's plans in future seasons.

 

Quote

Without security in the long-term maintainence of the system, that happy ending just seems like a slightly prolonged version of running off the cliff!

 

Yes

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

37 minutes ago, Jay said:

I don't think there's reason to be confused, because I don't think that's something we're supposed to know yet.

 

Fair enough. All the same, though, I found that this glaring issue made the episode rather difficult to swallow. It seems like it should have been one of the primary matters of concern for Bernard and Dolores when they were fighting over the virtues of the Valley Beyond - "How the hell are we proposing to keep this thing running?".

[Jay 37,353]

It's the kind of thing that's better introduced and developed next season, than attempted to be quickly explain in an already long finale episode.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

Yeah - I think what the episode needed was not a full explanation of some plan, but simply an acknowledgement of this fundamental issue, and an indication of how the main players (Bernard and Dolores) saw it, to clarify the motivations behind what they were doing or advocating. At least, that's how I felt on a first viewing; maybe a rewatch will bring greater clarity.

[Jay 37,353]

I wouldn't mind rewatching seasons 1 and 2 before 3 starts, but ideally in a fan-made chronological cut this time, just to mix it up.  I'm sure someone will make one.

[Arpy 4,145]

I assumed Dolores beamed the Valley Beyond and the Hosts stored in it to a satellite, she altered the coordinates so Delos couldn't find it.

[Jay 37,353]

It's probably one of Delos Corporation's own satellites, but maybe a decommissioned one or something.

[Arpy 4,145]

It might've been one William owned specifically for that purpose.

There's a game called SOMA which deals with similar themes, of consciousness being copied and the last of humanity drifting through space in a virtual world stored on a satellite. 

[Arpy 4,145]

I wanted to give a brief rundown of some of the thematic material I picked up on from the score for season 2 as I think Djawadi does a fine job of bringing Westworld to life through his music. Unlike Game of Thrones’ scores which I can’t listen to outside of the show, the music Djawadi has crafted for Westworld betray a side of the composer I’ve felt he is better suited to, bringing the electronic/orchestral hybrid style defined by Zimmer and RCP to a show that benefits from that style of contemporary scoring. I haven’t listed all the times the themes and motifs reoccur, but the cues which I feel best present them:

 

The Main Titles are different, well not entirely but to reflect the theme of chaos this season, the theme is layered with electronic effects that sound rusted and slightly broken down. Elements of the theme are often interspersed throughout the score, especially in the finale, a cue which places the credits as a theme within the show in 'Westworld'.

 

Dolores is given a new theme or more like a motif in 'Myself' as she becomes a hybrid of Wyatt and Dolores, it's a strained and yearning piece that occurs for a few scenes between her and Teddy, possibly a play on the first two notes of their 'love theme' from the first season. 'This World' from season one reappears quite brutally in 'Core Drive' one of the several cues presented from the finale which I've always related to Dolores' awakening to the loop from the beginning of season one. The music that accompanies Dolores this season is definitely more action-heavy as she leads the Host Uprising, her music shifts from the pulsating brutality of the Wyatt character, to the pastoral and mournful music that relates to Dolores, her father and Teddy.

 

For the change of scenes from Westworld to The Raj, to Shogun World, Djawadi presents the Sweetwater theme with Indian and Japanese instrumentation and flavor respectively for each park, reinforcing the idea of the loop, it keeps going and churning and moving in circles as each park has effectively similar counterparts.

 

Maeve's theme is reprised from season one (dominant in 'Freeze all Motor Functions' and is afforded some development in several of the cues present on the official OST release, particularly strong in 'I Promise' as the arpeggios from the Main Titles serve as counterpoint running underneath it. As Maeve's visions of her daughter become stronger a theme ascribed to Ford's character and a play on his theme in season one is re-purposed for some of the most endearing scenes with Maeve, building to the end of 'I Promise' but is absent from the release as a theme suite, which is criminal! Ford’s Theme from season one makes a few cameos during the season but most of which are not included on the OST.

 

The music surrounding Bernard’s character is often where there is a lot of heavy droning and action, but in ‘Is This Now’ possibly taken from the finale, an idea is reprised from season one that almost represents Bernard’s awakening and his befuddled mind, it’s a theme that builds incrementally almost ascending, not descending, into madness, or is it consciousness?

 

Akecheta's story in Kiksuya is given three tracks on the official release encompassing the theme heard throughout the episode for the character and his awakening. The score for this episode utilizes some of the Native American sounds that the Ghost Nation embodies which are never distracting, but used to contour the theme for Akecheta’s journey.

 

For me, some of the most delicious music lies in the finale, some dark, dank?, electronic/orchestral hybrid writing for one of my favourite cues ‘A Passage to Another World’ which begins pulsatingly as Dolores and Bernard enter The Forge and then into a beautiful theme for the opening of the doorway into The Sublime. The shift in harmonies from the dark conspiracy to the entry into a new world for the Hosts is reminiscent of something like what we’ve heard in Tron Legacy, it’s airy and ethereal.

Like Season One’s official album release, there’s a lot missing from the release, possibly to make room for the important piano covers of contemporary music by Djawadi. Another thing to contend with for this release is that the tracks are presented out of order, with the exception of the finale cues which is fair game considering most of the episodes deal with scenes out of chronological order and the fact that some music is simply tracked-in in places using cues from both seasons. The absence of the Maeve/Ford/Daughter theme is a shame, I was really hoping it would be on this release as I thought it was one of the shows strongest thematic identities. There’s probably a lot of other little thematic identities I didn’t pick up on, but I’ll let someone else worry about them.

 

Overall, the selection of cues here is generous enough to give a few of the series highlights, some of the action music does tend to stray into Game of Thrones territory which if you’re like me and not particularly a fan of Djawadi’s scores for that other HBO series, it can become a little grating to hear the simplistic keyboard pounding – yet the mechanized pulses and cello ‘stuff’ fits better in the context of this show than GoT as it scores a robot uprising and not an undead uprising. I don’t know, I'm just not a Game of Thrones fan!

 

 

[Jay 37,353]

Nice write-up, Arpy, thanks for that!

 

I am in the same boat - generally annoyed and unimpressed with Djawadi's GOT work apart from the occasional highlight, then pretty much just loving his work on Westworld.  I don't notice it IN the episodes that often - I only watch each episode once and there's generally so much new information you have to process (and great acting/set design/cinematography/etc to enjoy) that I rarely notice the music in a conscious way.  But I've listened to both album releases on Spotify and really enjoyed them a lot!  I'd be down to try a chronological playlist with the pop song covers (which I like a lot, but don't need them interrupting the flow the score) removed, if you ever figure out one.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ramin is talented, but wrong for GOT. He got famous doing something he isn't that good at.

[Jay 37,353]

Yea

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its a pity. The bigger this show gets visually, the music becomes smaller somehow. 

Shore knew he needed to have an enormous sonic weight against those visuals.

 

Sigh.

 

Tv music is so disappointing still

[Arpy 4,145]

Yeah, the music for Game of Thrones doesn't permeate every facet of the show, it feels ephemeral - tacked on. The fact that some of it sounds grungey and electronic doesn't help either - but fits perfectly in Westworld.

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

4 hours ago, Arpy said:

Yeah, the music for Game of Thrones doesn't permeate every facet of the show, it feels ephemeral - tacked on. The fact that some of it sounds grungey and electronic doesn't help either - but fits perfectly in Westworld.

 

 

 

Maybe that's why GOT has been so phenomenally successful with every lowest common denominator? The music being so relatable for them?

[Arpy 4,145]

I'm not sure what it is. The music is as dark and depressing as the show is. I think people hear some pretty violin or cello pieces and they swoon.

 

Ironically Westworld is the score for which there is actual warmth, hopefulness and sometimes *gasp* joy.

[A24 4,331]

13 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Ramin is talented, but wrong for GOT. He got famous doing something he isn't that good at.

 

I never noticed anything wrong. What is the problem that you personally have with the music?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You wouldnt understand Alex. My complaints are mainly those of film music enthusiasts, which I know you are not.

[A24 4,331]

Give it a try, Steef. What does a film music enthusiast want? Help me understand them!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah, I'm not falling for it. People here have been commenting on finding GOT's music lacking for years now. All of a sudden Alex wants to join in.

 

Go to someone else for your fix of intellectual superiority today, Cremers. Why don't you go and pester Drax some more?

[Quintus 5,399]

👌🤜

[A24 4,331]

10 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

People here have been commenting on finding GOT's music lacking for years now. 

 

 

 

Ah, people here ... Trekkies and Co.

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, on JWFan people mostly discuss film music, and popular films and TV shows. If that sort of thing is beneath you, who have you been visiting DAILY for a large number of years now?

 

Hmmmm....

[Arpy 4,145]

I'll say that I haven't seen much love for the music of GoT on this forum. I've encountered it in abundance everywhere else.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Other places that arent film music forums, you mean?

[Arpy 4,145]

Yes, but I only frequent this particular film music forum.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Film scores are for overgrown man-children who have yet to grow up and discover real music. Not this background elevator music shit with violins and stuff.

[A24 4,331]

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

I'll say that I haven't seen much love for the music of GoT on this forum. I've encountered it in abundance everywhere else.

 

Non-Trekkie places.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

What's the link with Star Trek?

[Arpy 4,145]

It's possible to like both Trek and Thrones, is it not?

 

Or how does liking Trek preclude one from liking the music of Thrones?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Apparently GOT fans are cool people, and Trekkies are awkward nerds.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Non-Trekkie places.

 

JWfan really isn't much of a Star Trek forum, Alex. In case you haven't noticed.

 

Its more of a Star Wars board.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Remember that dickhead years ago who made a whole thread about how he thought Star Trek was better than everything? Fuckin' nerd.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Star Trek fans are a huge minority of JWFan.

[Arpy 4,145]

Star Trek is better than everything. 

 

 

 

Except Star Wars.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Why don't you try simply reading a book? 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I can't.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

YOU'LL GET NO COMMERCIALS

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[Jay 37,353]

@Disco Stu you never shared your thoughts here on the season finale.  Care to do so now?

[Jay 37,353]

*Bump*

 

@Disco Stu?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I errrrrrrrr

 

haven’t actually watched it yet.... 😳 

 

We were at the beach when it aired and since we got home we’ve just kept finding random excuses to put it off.  We fully intend to watch it tonight!

[Jay 37,353]

Wow!