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Michael Giacchino's DOCTOR STRANGE (2016)


Jay

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There's nothing very contrapuntal about that. If there were, it could be good. Just like the rest of the score could have been good if taken further. Decent concept, half assed execution.

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On 11/3/2016 at 4:20 PM, Blumenkohl said:

No technical reason. It just sounds bad to my ears. Uncreative....lazy. Throwing in some quirky instruments ≠ a quirky, creative, zany score. It's actually rather irritating. 

 

I agree with this, 

Also does anyone else think the main motif sounds a lot like the music from the BBC Sherlock tv show? 

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42 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

Also does anyone else think the main motif sounds a lot like the music from the BBC Sherlock tv show? 

 

On 10/18/2016 at 1:35 PM, MedigoScan said:

also its not helping me forget Benedict plays Sherlock

 

On 10/19/2016 at 1:34 PM, Luke Skywalker said:

It does have a "sherlock" vibe to it, doesnt it?

 

On 10/19/2016 at 1:38 PM, Jay said:

Really just the harpsichord is Sherlock-y

 

On 10/19/2016 at 1:38 PM, Stefancos said:

I thought Sherlock used a cimbalon?

 

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Saw the film finally. Boring as hell. Score is good in film.  Some nice moments. Again one of the highlights seems to be the piano solo of the main theme just like it was in Star Trek Beyond.

 

I actually think the heoric statements of the theme don't work at all?  It is fantastic theme to be honest,  I really like it. But it's not really heoric? Its kinda melancholy in a way.  Its cool sounding, but again not super heroic, sounds conflicted.

 

So while its a great theme,  i am not sure it is a great superhero theme. And that becomes apparent in context.

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This score is very good imo..I'm not always a giacchino fan (i prefer his disney scores, recently his stuff that wasn't for kids movies seemed kinda phoned in, not too memorable). At first I thought this score was really generic and unmemorable, but i'v seen the film twice now and the score fits great. Dr. Strange's theme is the best material on here, it's subtle. There's another theme that i think is for the evil stuff and that one didn't seem very original, but i'v definitely heard worse! This one part of this cue sounds just like Star Wars underscore: [0:25-0:38]. I can imagine Kylo Ren talking over it or something.

 

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1 hour ago, JacksonElmore said:

This score is very good imo..I'm not always a giacchino fan (i prefer his disney scores, recently his stuff that wasn't for kids movies seemed kinda phoned in, not too memorable). At first I thought this score was really generic and unmemorable, but i'v seen the film twice now and the score fits great. Dr. Strange's theme is the best material on here, it's subtle. There's another theme that i think is for the evil stuff and that one didn't seem very original, but i'v definitely heard worse! This one part of this cue sounds just like Star Wars underscore: [0:25-0:38]. I can imagine Kylo Ren talking over it or something.

 

 

Good, because he is recording Star Wars underscore right now! ;)

On 11/12/2016 at 11:35 AM, TheUlyssesian said:

A rave from Movie Music UK

 

https://moviemusicuk.us/2016/11/11/doctor-strange-michael-giacchino/

 

And the first time I realized the last track was not written by Giacchino. So its funny the first track they released to the public was not Giacchino.

 

 

 

Huh. That is strange. No pun intended. 

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On 11/12/2016 at 3:49 PM, Jay said:

Of course Giacchino wrote it, it's his main theme to the score! It was ARRANGED by Charles Scott, like the article says. 

 

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@Jay

 

Well do you have the soundtrack booklet or some other info I don't have?

 

Because this sentence - The conclusive “The Master of the Mystic End Credits” is a full on Indian psychedelia arrangement of Strange’s theme by composer Charles Scott IV which plays over the end credits. - sure makes it sound like, while, obviously, Gia's theme is used, he had no involvement in this track and it was done entirely by the other composer. 

 

Also, in the track list at the end of the article, they say:

 

  • The Master of the Mystic – End Credits (remix by Charles Scott IV) (3:50)   

That doesn't just sound like Charles Scott IV helped pick out a few instruments or orchestrate, it sound more like he actually wrote it, using Gia's themes. 

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@Will look at the grammar in the sentence.

 


The conclusive “The Master of the Mystic End Credits” is a full on Indian psychedelia arrangement of Strange’s theme by composer Charles Scott IV which plays over the end credits

 

=


“The Master of the Mystic End Credits” is an arrangement by composer Charles Scott IV

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

@Will look at the grammar in the sentence.

 


The conclusive “The Master of the Mystic End Credits” is a full on Indian psychedelia arrangement of Strange’s theme by composer Charles Scott IV which plays over the end credits

 

=


“The Master of the Mystic End Credits” is an arrangement by composer Charles Scott IV

 

Of course I realized that:P

 

I think maybe my misunderstanding has to do with the definition of "arrangement." It can get confusing with film music what an orchestrator is, what an arranger is, etc. Because in the classical world, they can call Ravel's version of Pictures at an Exhibition an orchestration when he takes a piano piece and turns it into a full orchestral piece. Whereas in the film world, an orchestrator is often more like a copyist, at least with JW (and with many others too I presume, if not quite to same extent?)

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

JW and Howard Shore and a few others are the exception to the rule, not the rule.  More often than not orchestrators do a ton of work, its on a JW pic that they don't, because JW is the rare composer that writes meticously detailed sketches so that the orchestrators on his films don't REALLY have to do any orchestrating, they are, ineed, more like copyists.  But for the MAJORITY of films, especially ttoday, the orchestrators do a lot of, well, orchestrating.

 

Interesting. I should have guessed as much.

 

So, what's the final verdict on the Strange piece?

 

Charles Scott took Gia's theme from other cues of the score and made a new piece out of it, or Gia sent him a sketch of that particular piece and Scott then fleshed that out? 

 

I suppose it doesn't really matter, but just wondering, after all this confusion. 

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Wait, why are you confused about this? Charles Scott arranged Giacchino's theme, like the article says.  The conversation about orchestrating was a separate discussion that doesn't really have anything to do with that. 

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I guess the question is about Gia's involvement. Which sounds like it was zero.

 

 

Something like Kevin Feige picks up the phone to Gia and says Gia we need a 4 minute arrangement for the end credits. Gia is like I have no time. Take my good albeit simplistic melody which lasts all of 10 seconds and construct a 4 minute piece out of it.

 

So Feige then calls Scott, gives him the simple melody. And then we get everyone's favorite track on the album and in the film. 

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55 minutes ago, Jay said:

Wait, why are you confused about this? Charles Scott arranged Giacchino's theme, like the article says.  The conversation about orchestrating was a separate discussion that doesn't really have anything to do with that. 

 

The confusion was, essentially, over whether Scott arranged Gia's theme (so Gia wasn't involved with that cue at all), or whether Gia actually sent in a sketch of the cue that Scott then arranged to make the final version. 

 

Initially, based on the language of the article, it seemed obvious to me that Gia had no involvement with that cue, other than his theme being used of course. 

 

But then when you wrote this...

On 11/12/2016 at 2:49 PM, Jay said:

Of course Giacchino wrote it, it's his main theme to the score! It was ARRANGED by Charles Scott, like the article says. 

 

This almost made it sound to me like Gia had written a version of the cue that was then further arranged by Scott (so it would be kind of co-written). 

 

But now it sounds like what you actually meant was simply what I'd thought in the first place: 

 

That Scott arranged the theme to make the cue, meaning that it's more or less his cue, not Gia's (akin to how the Force Awakens theatrical trailer music isn't really Williams, despite using his themes). 

 

If I understand you correctly, that is. ;)

 

The reason I brought up the whole orchestrator thing was that amidst all this, I started to wonder how you all define arranged vs. orchestrated (vs. adapted, for that matter).

 

And as I understand it now, at least in film, an orchestrator takes a cue a composer wrote and makes some not-too-major additions and adjustments, fulfilling the composer's vision. Whereas an arranger or adapter usually works more independently of the composer, and rather than necessarily simply fulfilling the composer's vision, instead creates something more "new" using the original composer's work as a starting point. 

 

EDIT: @TheUlyssesian is right. My main question concerned the degree of Gia's involvement, essentially. 

 

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An orchestrator takes a sketch and makes a fully orchestrated conductor's score out of it,  ie makes separate lines for each instrument group

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I played Doctor Strange theme on piano for a friend today and asked him what recent movie it was. He said it was Star Trey Beyond and then argued with me for 5 minutes that no way was it Doctor Strange.

 

To quote a powerful man - Sad!

 

 

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13 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Sad? Why? Because your friend couldn't tell where this not-particularly-memorable theme came from or because Djiatchino wrote a theme that ain't really distinguishable from one of his other themes?

Djiatchino is a genius. How dare you disrespect the leader!

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He's not a genius but it seems to me the negative reactions have swung too far the other way. He's not the 2nd coming of Williams but he's also not the Anti-Williams.  He's a fine composer who has strong moments and weak ones too.

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1 hour ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Most of my posts about Gia are jokes. I don't hate him that much at all. 

 

I'd still rather he stayed away from Star Wars though. 

 

Better him than the lispy German though. 

 

This!

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11 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

I'm not sure Shore would be seen as a safe-enough choice by Disney. The only big thing he did was LOTR, and since then, he hasn't done anything remotely as big or as good as that. Plus his scores are generally too sophisticated, and that would be seen as dangerous by Disney (probably the reason that lead them to say bye-bye to Desplat)

 

JNH is more likely, though, given that he's already worked with them in the past. He'll probably end up scoring one, if Djiatchino is kind enough to let other composers have their chance to work on Star Wars, too.

I would say Hugo perhaps fits the bill. The film was big even if the score wasnt. Also his only oscar nom after LOTR.

 

I don't think too sophisticated is a problem for Disney at all. Just last year they got Williams to score Ep 7 and this year to score BFG and have asked him back for Ep 8 next year.

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