Michael Giacchino's DOCTOR STRANGE (2016)

[MedigoScan 324]

I still stand behind the Winter Soldier as an outstanding score, allthough I do understand why it grates on some people's ears

(The album didnt represent it that well either!)

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I admit to liking a lot of Winter Soldier's action cues (love "Lemurian Star") but I really don't understand the people who gush about the Winter Soldier motif.  That's part of why so much of that score grates on me.

[Faleel 5,346]

The only gushing I have heard about that motif is how it is used in Civil War in a more acoustic context. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

13 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I admit to liking a lot of Winter Soldier's action cues (love "Lemurian Star") but I really don't understand the people who gush about the Winter Soldier motif.  That's part of why so much of that score grates on me.

 

Its one of the very few times I actually noticed the score affecting the film and my perception of it as a successful product. I think less of the film because of that motif!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Yup. Thankfully, while it was definitely in Civil War, it was de-emphasized I think.  I noticed it less at least.

[Faleel 5,346]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

Yup. Thankfully, while it was definitely in Civil War, it was de-emphasized I think.  I noticed it less at least.

From what I could tell, it mostly was played on woodwinds in CW.

[MedigoScan 324]

Civil War still misses the more actiony WS soldier from the causeway and final battle scenes (sadly in my opinion)

and the version of it in the Wintersoldier suite goes on for far too long

Then again Civil War is an all-around less interesting score

[Disco Stu 15,495]

This is a common opinion I think, but it's true that both scores suffer for ignoring Silvestri's theme for the Captain.

[Will 2,215]

Well, not a huge fan of this score after one listen to the OST. But the main theme is quite good, and this one moment below is absolutely sublime. The end credits has grown on me, and there are of course plenty of cool moments. By far my favorite as of this time is this:

 

 

Glad we got this score even just for that brilliant moment. Sounds kind of like a Cold Play song...

 

That actually tends to be how it is for me with scores: It's usually smaller moments and not the main themes that really excite me. 

 

Btw, didn't realize the London Voices worked on this. 

 

My biggest problem with Giacchino is his frequent use of "epic" choir. Sometimes it works -- the Star Trek main theme, for example. Other times, especially when it's not for a theme, like it most of this score, it becomes grating, boring, and cliche. Some have worried about a Williams pastiche for Rogue One, but I'm actually a little excited about this possibility because it might free Gia from his I-always-need-to-use-choir-to-make-every-cue-epic shackles. 

 

It's so nice when you can hear a Gia cue without a giant choir wailing away. 

 

That should be reserved only for special occasions. 

 

Also, his "let's pound the crap out of every note" style of action writing can start to get a little grating. JW withholds that technique for certain moments (the end of "Get 'Em R-2!" and "Battle of the Heroes," for example) and it is very rewarding when it happens. Gia can do this very well too -- his pounding ostinato from Star Trek (part of the main theme, you could say) is absolutely marvelous. 

 

I don't mind his piano emotional chords thing. But the two above things often make listening to Gia's work a grating experience. I'm hoping he'll have less of that for Rogue One and more of the stuff I love about him. 

 

As a side note I kept hoping for/expecting the Star Trek main theme to begin numerous times...  It was always very frustrating when they didn't play it. 

 

[Faleel 5,346]

The first few seconds of the first track and it is making me think of Magmoor Caverns/Lower Norfair from Super Metroid.

[David Story 57]

Thanks for the link, this was the most anticipated movie of the year for me. Civil War is great, pretty much everything I like in superhero films.
But Doctor Strange is something different and welcome, a kind of supernatural martial artist who's strength grows from superior wisdom.

The weakness of the MCU is their soundtracks, with SIlvestri's awesome Avengers the exception, imo. Glad he's back for Infinity War!

In DS the visuals are mind boggling and the acting perhaps the finest cast in the genre, but I was nervous about the score. Thank goodness Marvel went for an updated 60s sound, with touches of psychedelic sitar, backwards music, wailing pulsing synths, groovy perc. This is something MG does really well and supports the film. (Ant-Man and Guardians also had retro moments). There's plenty of atonal orchestral soundscapes with angular motifs, again a 60s touch. The sound engineering is kind of annoying at times, like he's trying to be even more mechanical than Remote Control scores. But the live orchestra is foremost here and the greatest excitement is in cues like Sanctimonious Sanctum Sacking. Yes there's Epic Choir but the rest of the orchestration is in balance. Inside the Mirror Dimension actually reminds me a bit of John Barry, but the serious side instead of the action style in The Incredibles. Doctor Strange is Giacchino's best score in a long time. By The Vishanti!

[MedigoScan 324]

yeah even big actionpieces like Smote and Mirrors have those 'trippy' beats in them

love it

[Jay 37,352]

I look forward to re-evaluating the OST after I see the score in context in the film

[Mephariel 451]

I just finished the entire score. I think the problem of this score stems from Giacchino’s inability to commit to his ideas. I think about Alan Silvestri’s Predator score and how Silvestri was dead set at creating a primal, suspenseful score and he commited to it. I think about Zimmer’s commitment to using the organ and woodwinds for Interstellar and James Horner’s work in Titanic with Celtic influence. Then I think about this score...Make no mistakes about it, Giacchino had a lot of good ideas. When the brief chimes came in the first theme, “Ancient Sorcerer’s Secrets,” I thought this was going to be a very unique album. Cues like “Go For Baroque” and “Hippocratic Hypocrite” added a delicious layer of suave and mystical energy (almost Diablo games like) that made me appreciate Giacchino’s creativeness.

 

But instead of building of those idea, Giacchino spent the rest of the score churning out long action cues with tiresome blaring horns, heavy strings, and the pounding use of the choir, reusing various ideas from his Star Trek scores. By the time we get back to his softer, far more inventive soundscaping, so much of the identity has been lost. Overall, the score is not focus enough to be a symbiote of the Sorcerer Supreme, and not heroic enough for me to excuse it as a good generic superhero score.

 

To be generous, I can give this a 3 stars score if he created an awesome new theme for the character (similar criticism I had with Zimmer’s Inferno), but temp tracking his Star Trek theme almost note by note in some cases drops this down to **1/2.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Completely unrelated to Giacchino's work (because I haven't heard it yet), I must agree with the suggestion of withholding epic choirs unless it is for a very good story reason.

There is so much "epic" music these days that there is very little contrast.

It is virtually not possible to "go more epic for the finale" because it all started epic to begin with.

Bit overkill, really.

 

By contrast, I like scores like Cutthroat Island and Independence Day that definitely feature choir that is very epic when it cuts in, but it doesn't happen all that often.

Mainly just for special scenes (revelations of sorts) and the finale. Works pretty well!

[Damien F 1,742]

After first listen, my listening experience of the OST is very similar to Ottman's X-Men: Apocalypse. There is a handful of really entertaining tracks but most of the album is dull and mundane.

 

The last three tracks are definite highlights, and there are some parts of Smote and MIrrors that are pretty cool, but that's it really.

 

The main theme is OK but definitely not amongst Gia's best. Overall, it is a disappointment. Those final three cues will definitely appear on my Giachinno / 2016 / Marvel playlists though. Without them, I'd struggle to give the album more than 2 / 5.

[Arpy 4,145]

21 hours ago, Jay said:

I look forward to re-evaluating the OST after I see the score in context in the film

I agree 100% with this.

 

It's rare I love a new score before seeing the film these days, then after hearing it in context to pair visuals with the sounds I love the scores. Rey's Theme didn't stick with me until I saw the film for the first time and heard the theme in The Scavenger scene. 

 

I've listened to this score twice now and I would say the themes are there, everything is there, but do I love or like it?

 

Perhaps not as much until I hear it in context.

[Miz 139]

I'm alike in only being attracted to the final 3 tracks, at the moment. But the rest of the score, though not instantly appealing to listen to on its own, sounds like it would complement the film's drama and action well. I'll find out more when I see it.

 

I do object to the rubbishing of a score because it isn't a 'good-enough' stand-alone album; we have to remember that's not the music's job. For most people, any film score is not interesting or suitable to listen to apart from a film. Some composers deliver up some stunning albums. I listen to most scores as invidividual tracks and playlists, but Tomorrowland, Up and John Carter are all albums I listen to fully. Do we often feel that because a composer happens to have delivered a good 'album listen' before, that a new score should be assessed on its ability to live up to those experiences? I think not. I count myself lucky when a score sounds great as an album - I do not count it as an inferior score to those others, if it does its job just as well in the film. It's a bit like Clemmensen measuring film scores against his narrow standard of "thematic-developed , leitmotif-heavy, narrative-based, largely-symphonic" scores that Star Wars epitomises.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

On 10/22/2016 at 2:03 AM, David Story said:

By The Vishanti!

 

Reference heartily approved!

[MedigoScan 324]

well

saw the movie

soundtrack isnt missing much, except for maybe a nice variation on the main theme in between tracks 2 and 3

it does get drowned out a bit early on, but that might just be the IMAX at work

 

(also the mystical end credits are saved for the very end of the credits. Its a good thing people want to stay to see the usual ending stinger)

[Will 2,215]

 

This is really great. Beginning sounds like some of the bigger Zootopia statements, but it's probably better. 

 

Perhaps because of its similarity to his Star Trek main theme, the main theme is very catchy. 

[Jay 37,352]

I don't think the main theme sounds like his Star Trek theme at all

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 minutes ago, Will said:

 

Perhaps because of its similarity to his Star Trek main theme, the main theme is very catchy. 

 

His Star Trek theme is pretty awful 

[Will 2,215]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

I don't think the main theme sounds like his Star Trek theme at all

 

Well, it always reminds me of it. 

[Jilal 569]

There's a certain theme in the film that definitely reminds me of the Star Trek theme (more in terms of general structure and harmony), but I don't hear anything similar in the main theme.

[crocodile 8,006]

If George Samuel Kirk is ever introduced in the Star Trek films it will be his theme.

 

Karol

[Will 2,215]

6 minutes ago, Jilal said:

There's a certain theme in the film that definitely reminds me of the Star Trek theme (more in terms of general structure and harmony), but I don't hear anything similar in the main theme.

 

Wait, you listened to Giacchino music?

 

 

 

Seriously, though, is there really no similarity?

 

They both have this melancholy, somewhat romantic sound. The contour of the melodies just feel very similar to me. This isn't grounded in any music theory, of course.

[Jilal 569]

Yes, though not willingly.* I opened my eyes to my petty life again at 4 PM after a couple of hours of sleep (despite the holidays, I'm still feeling incredibly tired), and all of a sudden my parents were like "What? You're not even ready yet? We're heading to the cinema!"

 

So here I am, I just saw Doctor Strange half sleep-drunk half chronically depressed. I kind of enjoyed it.

 

* Just kidding, I'll listen to the OST again on Spotify.

[Will 2,215]

40 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

His Star Trek theme is pretty awful 

 

Well, I think it's effective. 

 

Of course, I've heard it so many times it's hard to really judge it at this point. Familiarity breeds acceptance oftentimes.

[KK 3,307]

48 minutes ago, Jay said:

I don't think the main theme sounds like his Star Trek theme at all

 

46 minutes ago, Will said:

 

Well, it always reminds me of it. 

 

39 minutes ago, Jilal said:

There's a certain theme in the film that definitely reminds me of the Star Trek theme (more in terms of general structure and harmony), but I don't hear anything similar in the main theme.

 

They share an almost-identical chord progression. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Indeed!

[Will 2,215]

1 hour ago, KK said:

 

 

 

They share an almost-identical chord progression. 

 

Oh, OK. 

 

I would agree that a problem with Giacchino is that he apparently only wants to write melancholy, romantic themes these days. Not heroic marches, for the most part (although he has written some really, really exciting stuff). That's not to say his themes aren't often very beautiful. But the trick is starting to get a little old. And I'll bet Jyn's theme will be in that mold too, although I'd like to be wrong.

 

Perhaps it's just the modern Hollywood landscape that's causing this, I don't know. 

1 hour ago, Jilal said:

I kind of enjoyed it.

 

Yay! 

 

You are on the right path! 

 

Now let's celebrate by listening to some great Giacchino. 

 

 

 

[Jilal 569]

Well, it appears I was referring to the main theme after all - all is well, @Will, I made the same observation!

 

By the way - The Thirteenth Warrior, anyone?

[KK 3,307]

32 minutes ago, Will said:

 

Oh, OK. 

 

I would agree that a problem with Giacchino is that he apparently only wants to write melancholy, romantic themes these days. Not heroic marches, for the most part (although he has written some really, really exciting stuff). That's not to say his themes aren't often very beautiful. But the trick is starting to get a little old. And I'll bet Jyn's theme will be in that mold too, although I'd like to be wrong.

 

Perhaps it's just the modern Hollywood landscape that's causing this, I don't know. 

 

The problem isn't so much with moods/genres like " melancholy" or "romance". I'd argue the problem lies more in technical skill. He often limits his compositional palette, especially on a harmonic level.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

He doesn't seem to think horizontally enough.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He's not thinking fourth dimensionally!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

He should think spherically! Spherical music is awesome!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Is the Star Wars Ring Theory spherical?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

This score takes the title as the most offensively bad scores I've heard in a decade (since 2006)

 

The last winner was Zimmer with The Amazing Spider-Man 2. 

 

 

[Jay 37,352]

He, I thought Amazing Spider-man 2 was actually pretty fun.  Certainly more appealing than his dreary Dark Knight music

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Hey Blume, why does it get such low marks from you? Aren't you an MG champion? I agree that it's not what it should be, but it has some strengths and there have been more egregious entries from him over the last few years. What sets this one so far back for you?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

No technical reason. It just sounds bad to my ears. Uncreative....lazy. Throwing in some quirky instruments ≠ a quirky, creative, zany score. It's actually rather irritating. 

 

I was hoping for a The 'Burbs caliber quirky, strange score. And it's got fucking barking dog samples. 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On 2-11-2016 at 9:41 AM, BloodBoal said:

Of course, because a ring is basically a flat sphere!

Lord of the Flat Spheres just doesn't have the same Ring to it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

30 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said:

No technical reason. It just sounds bad to my ears. Uncreative....lazy. Throwing in some quirky instruments ≠ a quirky, creative, zany score. It's actually rather irritating. 

 

I was hoping for a The 'Burbs caliber quirky, strange score. And it's got fucking barking dog samples. 

 

You were expecting Goldsmith levels of crazy and experimentation from Gia???

[Alex 2,835]

Saw the film last night. The score fits it really well.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

A rave from Movie Music UK

 

https://moviemusicuk.us/2016/11/11/doctor-strange-michael-giacchino/

 

And the first time I realized the last track was not written by Giacchino. So its funny the first track they released to the public was not Giacchino.

 

 

[Jay 37,352]

Of course Giacchino wrote it, it's his main theme to the score! It was ARRANGED by Charles Scott, like the article says. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

 

 

I have kinda come to love Go For Baroque. I think it is one of the tracks of the year. I love the busy and strident counterpoint.