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Bespin

Expanded releases: those that include the Original Album and those that should

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Hi,

 

I wonder if a list of those albums exist somewhere...  I think it would be a good idea to make one.

 

I think it would be a great idea to highlight the fact that sometimes, what we find on an original album is very different than what we can found on the Expanded reissues.... Edits, merging... re-recordings...

 

Please help me to complete the list! This is all but scientific, but I think it deserved a specific thread!

 

Expanded sets that include the original albums

 

Goodbye, Mr. Chips [Original Motion Picture Soundtrack] (1969) (2006, Film Score Monthly, FSMCD Vol. 9, No. 6) *

How to Steal a Million/Bachelor Flat (1966/1962) (2008, Intrada Special Collection, ISC 83) ***

1941 [Original Motion Picture Score] (2011, La-La Land Records, LLLCD 1179) *

The Fury [Expanded Original Motion Picture Score] (1978) (2013, La-La Land Records, LLLCD 1238) ***

The Missouri Breaks [An Original MGM Motion Picture Soundtrack] (1976) (2013, Kritzerland Records, KR 20026-0) ***
Rosewood [Music From The Motion Picture] (1997) (2013, La-La Land Records, LLLCD 1244) *
Fitzwilly – Special Archival Edition [Original MGM Motion Picture Soundtrack] (1967) (2013, Music Box Records, MBR-035) ***

Heidi [Music From The Original Soundtrack Of The NBC Television Special] (1968) (2013, Quartet Records, SCE062) **
Jaws 2 [Original Motion Picture Soundtrack] (1978) (2015, Intrada, Special Collection Volume ISC 331) ***
Jaws [Original Motion Picture Soundtrack] (1975) (2015, Intrada, INT 7145) ***
Home Alone 25th Anniversary: Limited Edition (2015, La-La Land Records, LLLCD 1374) *

Tom Sawyer [Expanded Original MGM Motion Picture Soundtrack] (1973) (2015, Quartet Records, QR-211) *

 

 

Expanded sets that should be release including the original album

 

The Towering Inferno (1974) *

Star Wars (1977) *

Close Encounters Of The Third Kind (1977) *

Superman: The Movie (1978) *

Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1980) *

Raiders Of The Lost Ark (1981) *

E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial (1982) ***

Star Wars: Return Of The Jedi (1983) *

Empire of the Sun (1987) *

Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade (1989) *
Hook (1991) *

Home Alone 2 – Lost in New York (1992) *

Jurassic Park (1993) *

Angela's Ashes (1999) ** (NOTE: The European edition of the CD contains only the music)

Star Wars – Episode I: The Phantom Menace (1999) *

A.I. Artificial Intelligence (2001) *

Harry Potter And The Prisoner Of Azkaban (2004) *

Star Wars – Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith (2005) *

Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015) *

 

* Original album is unique because of the chosen takes or because of remarkable edits

** Original album features the music combined with narration

*** Original album mostly or totally features a re-recording

 

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Every single John Williams album ever is edited from the raw recording sessions to create an album program that John Williams wanted us to hear.

 

Not sure what documenting every edit will accomplish, but good luck!

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I don't talk about EDITs in the the general way, but those we can't find on the Expanded releases, or those we can't hear in the movies.

 

Like the collage of several tracks together, even if they don't follow each other chronologically.

 

Star Wars original albums are the best (or worse) example I know.. where the EDITs are very imaginative...

 

I mean merging the Star Wars theme with the Mynock Cave cue... It works... but man, they smoked very good stock back in the 80's!

 

I'm sure John Williams don't do that anymore on his recent soundtracks.

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ROTJ is maybe the less edited (or even maybe not at all?) original album of the trilogy. I can't find the details of the EDITS of the original LP.

 

Edited or not? :-/

 

12 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

He did some very imaginative edits with POA, actually.

 

This is why I want to make a list, I didn't know.

 

Those things are into your heads, but it is not well documented. :-)

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1 hour ago, Bespin said:

I don't talk about EDITs in the the general way, but those we can't find on the Expanded releases.

 

Oh, if that's what you're after then that is much simpler

 

1974 - The Towering Inferno

1977 - Star Wars

1977 - Close Encounters of the Third Kind

1980 - Empire Strikes Back

1981 - Raiders of the Lost Ark

1982 - ET

1983 - Return of the Jedi

1987 - The Empire of the Sun

1989 - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

1991 - Hook

1992 - Home Alone 2 Lost In New York

1999 - The Phantom Menace

2001 - A.I. Artificial Intelligence

 

I think that's it

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14 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Oh, if that's what you're after then that is much simpler

 

1974 - The Towering Inferno

1977 - Star Wars

1977 - Close Encounters of the Third Kind

1980 - Empire Strikes Back

1981 - Raiders of the Lost Ark

1982 - ET

1983 - Return of the Jedi

1987 - The Empire of the Sun

1989 - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

1991 - Hook

1992 - Home Alone 2 Lost In New York

1999 - The Phantom Menace

 

I think that's it

 

 

Not E.T.  It's not the same thing. The album is the album. The soundtrack is the soundtrack. It's like Jaws and The Fury, etc. It's not what I'm looking for here.

 

 

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I think the OST release of TPM is highly regarded here, but aside from the quality of the sound and mix, I don't like it very much. The edit is absolutely crazy with different music from completely different parts of the film edited together with fades and stuff. Always throws me off.

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I wrote the following post earlier this year:

 

On 17-2-2016 at 7:31 PM, Pieter_Boelen said:

Last night I tried to listen to the OST of The Phantom Menace, but knowing how it plays out in full form now, I can't seem to get used to it anymore.

Also, some custom OST edits sounded better in my memory than on the actual album.

Just some random thoughts:

 

Main Title and the Arrival At Naboo

The grouping of all that brassy music together is an interesting combination.

Unfortunately the real film opening has rather a cool part, so now every time I hear the OST edit, I am disappointed.

 

Jar Jar's Introduction and the Swim to Otoh Gunga

It has been YEARS since I listened to this. Definitely didn't remember there was Tatooine stuff in there! Weird.

 

The Sith Spacecraft and the Droid Battle

Works just about fine. Not sure what the "Sith Spacecraft" opening adds though.

 

The Arrival At Tatooine and the Flag Parade

REALLY sudden change of atmosphere there. I cannot help but wonder about the reason for that.

 

Panaka and the Queen's Protectors

This was a really good combination in my memory. And it does work quite well together.

But not as well as I remember.... Also, I REALLY like the film fade between the end of this track and the "Escape From Naboo" music.

So now that stands out as being missing.

 

The Droid Invasion and the Appearance of Darth Maul

I definitely like how this one has pretty much all "Droid March" stuff grouped together.

I do end up missing the "cool officially unreleased bit" though.

And the change to the DotF part at the end sounded VERY awesome in my memory.

But not so much in reality.

 

Qui-Gon's Noble End

This one just about sounds right to me. At "Darth Maul appears" fanfare leading into the "Escape from Naboo" action music works quite nicely.

 

 

Not sure what purpose the above post serves. But I felt like writing it.... :P

 

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1974 - The Towering Inferno

1977 - Close Encounters of the Third Kind

1987 - The Empire of the Sun

1989 - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

1991 - Hook

1992 - Home Alone 2 Lost In New York

 

I'm not an expert of those scores, so anyone confirms these original albums contains "imaginative" EDITs which are not reproduced on the expanded releases? ;-)

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24 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Not E.T.  It's not the same thing. The album is the album. The soundtrack is the soundtrack. It's like Jaws and The Fury, etc. It's not what I'm looking for here.

 

Then what the bloody hell are you looking for man?  Explain yourself better!

 

 

13 minutes ago, Bespin said:

1974 - The Towering Inferno

1977 - Close Encounters of the Third Kind

1987 - The Empire of the Sun

1989 - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

1991 - Hook

1992 - Home Alone 2 Lost In New York

 

I'm not an expert of those scores, so anyone confirms these original albums contains "imaginative" EDITs which are not reproduced on the expanded releases? ;-)

 

Now your qualifier is that the edit has to be "imaginative"?  WTF does that even mean?

I can confirm that all of those OSTs have edits not on their respective expanded releases, yes!

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1 hour ago, Bespin said:

1941 [Original Motion Picture Soundtrack] (1979, Arista, AL 9510)

 

This doesn't belong on your list.  The entire OST LP is included in the expanded LLL edition.

 

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

Harry Potter And The Prisoner Of Azkaban [Original Motion Picture Soundtrack] (2004, Nonesuch/Warner Sunset Records/Atlantic/Warner Strategic Marketing, 83711-2)
Star Wars – Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith [Original Motion Picture Soundtrack] / London SO (2005, Sony Classical, SK 94220)

 

These don't belong on your list.  There IS no expanded release!

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The expanded releases are just a point of comparison. If the original albums contains EDITS, they contains EDITS (or big explosions or voices). Great if the original albums have been included on the expanded sets. When they do that, it just confirms that the original albums where "unique".

 

Concerning the albums that you all have on bootlegs, well one day, they will be legally released as Expanded sets too ;-)

 

No big or remarkable edits on the original albums of Temple of Doom and Attack of the clones?

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Then if that's your criteria, you might as well list EVERY SINGLE John Williams OST like I told you before, because EVERY SINGLE John Williams OST is edited by him to create the listening experience he wants!

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Bespin said:

No big or remarkable edits on the original albums of Temple of Doom and Attack of the clones?

 

The entire TOD OST is available by just removing tracks from the expanded release.

 

AOTC is as full of edits as EVERY OTHER JOHN WILLIAMS OST.

 

 

I think you need to re-think what you are trying to accomplish here, or figure it out yourself because your criteria makes no sense to any one else!

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There are different types of edits, right?

Some maintain the film order, but cut out bits and pieces.

 

Others combine all sorts of stuff from different parts in the movies.

In some cases, those edits can work quite well, so it is interesting at least to me to hear which ones people consider to be the good ones.

 

See my earlier post for an example of what I mean.

I understood that Bespin is pretty much interested in the same sort of thing.

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All his albums contain music out of chronological order, and music from two different scenes combined into one track.

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I'd personally like to know which of such editorially created tracks people here consider particularly good and bad.

Listing it by album seems a bit pointless because, as you say, if applies to all of them.

 

For example, I quite like the OUT version of "You are the Pan".

Much better to have that music grouped together as it fits quite nicely.

 

I also think the album edit of "The Battle of Coruscant" is pretty cool.

It was my hope before the OST was released that the main title would continue immediately into the action. And it did.

Quite a surprise for me to later find out there are some drums in the film instead.

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In contrast I hate the opening of Revenge of the Sith on the OST and how it has such an obvious and abrasive edit into that action music instead of beginning with the drums leading into the action music. The ROTS OST main titles has no "starry night" opening or whatever that variation fo kind of quiet, twinkling music Star Wars scores usually have right after the Main Title Crawl. 

 

I like or don't notice most of the edits on the 1st Harry Potter OST. That CD just seems to flow really well. 

I've always been disappointed that POA OST doesn't feature Peter Pettigrew's motif at all. 

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It's grown on me. Regardless, that segue represents Williams' intention for that scene in the film - it wasn't an edit created just for the OST. The final cut of the film deviates from the score he wrote by presenting drum overdubs sans orchestra.

 

I think a lot of the editing on the TFA OST is quite good. "Finn's Confession" is a particularly good example - three different cues from different scenes blended together to create a very natural-sounding and satisfying track.

 

I also like how the bonus tracks on the Jurassic Park re-release were handled. I mean, I would have preferred to get them all clean, as with any score, but the editing choices worked very well. (And on the topic of Jurassic Park, "Eggs in the Forest" sounds really weird when orphaned from "Hatching Baby Raptor." The order of that OST is awful, but that particular edit is perfect.)

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Thanks for that! I was never sure if that RotS opening was intentional or not.

Now I finally know!

 

And I second your opinion on Finn's Confession.

In fact, for my personal edit, I combined the FYC and OST in such a way that it maintains almost the entirety of the OST edit.

I like it much better that way than having them as separate tracks.

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The TFA OST is mostly great. Everything sounds very fluid and there aren't any major cues missing. I do wish the Attack on Jakku Village had a bit more music from the FYC album on it but that's about as much as I can gripe about.

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44 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Thanks for that! I was never sure if that RotS opening was intentional or not.

Now I finally know!

 

You're quite welcome! What's interesting is that the main title recording is still the same one from TPM, and that one was obviously performed in a way that lent itself to being followed by quieter passages. I think that's part of why the transition sounds jarring to me. A new recording, performed specifically with this is mind, might have sounded more seamless.

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10 hours ago, Bespin said:

1977 - Close Encounters of the Third Kind

1987 - The Empire of the Sun

1989 - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

1991 - Hook

1992 - Home Alone 2 Lost In New York

 

Yes. All contain musical portions from different parts of the film stitched together.

 

The most obvious ones occur in 'Jaws 2' (Williams' heaviest edited album next to TPM and it must have been a task to arrange all those 1-minute cues) but also in '1941', 'Dracula', 'The Fury' and 'Home Alone'. 

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16 hours ago, Jay said:

Then what the bloody hell are you looking for man?  Explain yourself better!

 

Taking you comments in consideration altough they never are very tactful.... I will take this subject in a larger way... In fact, the goal is to create another page on my discography website.

 

New name of the thread: Expanded releases: those who includes the Original Album and those who should.

 

 

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As long as you're correcting grammar, also change "includes" to "include." 

 

"Those" is plural. It needs a plural verb. 

 

The word "that" would make better sense in place of "which."

 

"That" is used for clauses that are integral to a sentence, while "which" clauses are optional and can be removed without changing the meaning of the sentence. 

 

http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/which-vs-that

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As I've been saying, EVERY JW OST includes unique edits, so your list will simply be every film that got an OST, split by those which have had an expanded release and those which haven't yet.  

 

Is there a point to compiling such a list?

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I don't count... I undo knots... eh.. what's the purpose of life anyway?

 

OCD that's funny. because I suspect some users here to be a little AS (Asperger)... ;-)

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Based on the thread-title (there seems to be some confusion), and in risk of sounding repetetive - I would have much appreciated if the OST had been included on the expanded HA2-soundtrack. That was just a b*tch to put together on my own using edits of the remastered tracks.

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On 6/19/2016 at 10:33 AM, Pieter_Boelen said:

Is there a list of Williams OST albums that are genuinely full re-recordings?

I know of Jaws and E.T., but I think there are more, right?

 

*deep breath*  The ET OST is *NOT* a re-recording!

It's exactly the same thing as almost all his other OSTs - a mixture of film cues and concert arrangements, all of which were recorded during the film's main scoring sessions.  Tracks 2-5 and 7 are concert arrangements while tracks 1, 6, and 8 are film cues.

 

The JW albums that are true complete re-recordings (IE, completely recorded anew from scratch, after the film's recording sessions, possibly with a complete different orchestra) are:

 

How To Steal A Million (1966)
Not With My Wife, You Don't! (1966)

Penelope (1966)

Fitzwilly (1967)

Cinderella Liberty (1973) - not sure about this one?

Jaws (1975)

The Missouri Breaks (1976)
The Fury (1978)

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

*deep breath*  The ET OST is *NOT* a re-recording!

It's exactly the same thing as almost all his other OSTs - a mixture of film cues and concert arrangements, all of which were recorded during the film's main scoring sessions.  Tracks 2-5 and 7 are concert arrangements while tracks 1, 6, and 8 are film cues.

 

The JW albums that are true complete re-recordings (IE, completely recorded anew from scratch, after the film's recording sessions, possibly with a complete different orchestra) are:

 

How To Steal A Million (1966)
Not With My Wife, You Don't! (1966)

Penelope (1966)

Cinderella Liberty (1973) - not sure about this one?

Jaws (1975)
The Fury (1978)

The Missouri Breaks (1976) and also apparently The Eiger Sanction (1975) too. And if I remember correctly Diamond Head as well.

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