James Horner's THE ROCKETEER - New 2CD Intrada Expanded

[Faleel 5,340]

It's also on 7Digital as 16 Bit FLACs!

 

https://us.7digital.com/artist/james-horner/release/the-rocketeer-original-motion-picture-soundtrack-16173353?f=20%2C19%2C12%2C16%2C17%2C9%2C2

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

1 minute ago, Falco said:

16 Bit

 

WOW!

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

11 minutes ago, Falco said:

Apparently this is now available digitally

 

Ooh. Now is this the version that fixes the issues with some of the brass mixing in the complete score? (Even though I confess to not being 100% sure what was done… or if it was fixed to general satisfaction).

Still, great news for those who missed the cd release. Remains one of my favourite Horner scores.  

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

That's one of the problems with digital streaming/download: the lack of documentation.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

57 minutes ago, Falco said:

It's also on 7Digital as 16 Bit FLACs!

 

https://us.7digital.com/artist/james-horner/release/the-rocketeer-original-motion-picture-soundtrack-16173353?f=20%2C19%2C12%2C16%2C17%2C9%2C2

Wow!

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

59 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

That's one of the problems with digital streaming/download: the lack of documentation.

Shame they don't do a PDF version as classical download sites do. I can't believe it would be unduly onerous to produce something based on the printed booklet.

[crocodile 7,984]

They used to send PDF files of their booklets with the digital promos. I'm not sure whether they still do. 

 

Karol

[Richard Penna 3,672]

I can understand for some speciality releases, but most regular albums just have the usual tracklist/credits and maybe a note from the director/composer. I often don't even open those up - they're a perfectly nice addition, but I don't need them.

 

Probably the bits I find most useful in liners are track breakdowns where they describe notable sections of all the tracks and what they are scoring. Last one I saw this in is Hard Rain, which was useful as I haven't seen the film for decades.

 

The only thing that means as much to me as liners seem to for most here is some nice cover art - especially as I got a Windows program working again on my new PC ('CD Art Display') which hooks into Winamp and displays the cover in the corner of the screen.

[A. A. Ron 1,739]

5 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Ooh. Now is this the version that fixes the issues with some of the brass mixing in the complete score? (Even though I confess to not being 100% sure what was done… or if it was fixed to general satisfaction).

Still, great news for those who missed the cd release. Remains one of my favourite Horner scores.  

 

The tracks on 7digital are all labeled "2020 remaster," so yes it is the updated version.

[Jay 37,287]

This is great that Intrada is able to begin selling so many of their physical CD releases on the digital download stores!  Keep em coming and hopefully the other labels can get the same deals!

[crumbs 14,301]

It would be great if they could license some post-2005 LA scores for streaming platforms. I assume that would help recoup costs on the AFM fees.

[WampaRat 1,105]

This is fantastic news. I missed out on this expanded release the first time.

 

Edit: Huh, available to stream in Spotify but not purchase on iTunes (?)

 

How/when do they decided to go digital with some of these releases?

Does it depend on the studios? There’s been a ton of digital versions of expanded Goldsmith scores of late. 
(Still waiting for them to drop The Shadow so I can finally get that one!)

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

The tracks on 7digital are all labeled "2020 remaster," so yes it is the updated version.

That’s what I thought but great to have it confirmed. Thank you! Might just buy the affected tracks… 

[Jay 37,287]

14 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

This is fantastic news. I missed out on this expanded release the first time.

 

Edit: Huh, available to stream in Spotify but not purchase on iTunes (?) 

 

I've noticed lately that some digital albums show up on iTunes a little bit later than the other providers. I dunno why that would be but I bet it'll be on iTunes too real soon

 

14 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

How/when do they decided to go digital with some of these releases?

Does it depend on the studios? 

 

Not sure but yes I think it's the film studio agreeing to a deal

[crumbs 14,301]

Are post-2005 AFM rules different for streaming vs mechanical rights?

[Jay 37,287]

I don't think so

[WampaRat 1,105]

Man “The Laughing Bandit” is so freaking terrific. Makes want that Willow expansion even more!

 

I believe in a Conrad Pope interview some time ago he talked about the Robin Hood Prince of thieves score and how Horner turned it down due to the insane schedule. I’m sure Horner would have given us something along this line. But Kamen’s is still a classic;)

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

I doubt Horner would have come up with an overture as good as Kamen's.

[danbeck 123]

The digital release does not seems like an Intrada release. It's "2020 Hollywood Records" & "2021 Disney Enterprises" - possibly Intrada had the CD rights in this case and made the transfer and the remaster but it had not the rights for digital release.

[1977 1,743]

On 1/28/2021 at 8:56 AM, JTWfan77 said:

Hopefully this sell out will prompt Disney to release this digitally, as they have done recently with other Intrada expansions such as Ducktales and the Homeward Bounds.

 

*Ahem*

 

3 hours ago, WampaRat said:

How/when do they decided to go digital with some of these releases?

Does it depend on the studios? There’s been a ton of digital versions of expanded Goldsmith scores of late. 
(Still waiting for them to drop The Shadow so I can finally get that one!)

 

Don't hold your breath. It's a 3rd party title.

 

3 hours ago, WampaRat said:

Edit: Huh, available to stream in Spotify but not purchase on iTunes (?)

 

It's available to purchase on iTunes in my country.

[Jay 37,287]

26 minutes ago, danbeck said:

The digital release does not seems like an Intrada release. It's "2020 Hollywood Records" & "2021 Disney Enterprises" - possibly Intrada had the CD rights in this case and made the transfer and the remaster but it had not the rights for digital release.

 

In most cases, the reason specialty label expansions happen is because one company owns the mechanical rights to release music from a score (let's say Warner Brothers Music Group for an example) and another company owns the remaining unreleased music that wasn't on the OST album (let's say Paramount Pictures as an example).  So in this example, if Warner Brothers Music wanted to make their own expansion happen, they'd need to license the remaining music from Paramount Pictures, and for whatever reason, that just doesn't happen.  Likewise, if Paramount Pictures wanted to release their own album of music from the score, they can't, because WMG owns the mechanical rights to it.  So what happens is these specialty labels (let's use La La Land Records as an example) come in as a sort of "middle man"; They license the mechanical rights from WMG, then unreleased music from Paramount, and La La Land Records is now the company releasing the new album, and everybody is happy (and makes money).

 

So the reason why none of these types of releases ever show up for digital is because the contracts that the specialty label, the mechanical rights holder, and the film studio sign for the release to happen only grant the release of a album on physical CD and/or physical vinyl.  Though the new hi-res master that the specialty label producer (let's say Mike Matessino as an example) creates gets sent back to the film studio, and that film studio can use it for remastering the film itself, or licensing music into other films or video games or something, they can't actually release the album for sale, even digitally, because WMG still owns the mechanical rights.  There would have to be a contract signed to allow LLL to release it digitally, but these contracts are very rare to happen, for whatever reason.

 

In the case of The Rocketeer, the music label that owns the mechanical label is Hollywood Records - which happens to be owned by Disney, the same film studio that released the film.  So while functionally, the process to create the expanded release might have been very similar to if the mechanical rights holder and film studio were completely separate entities, when it comes down to it, Disney owns all the rights to The Rocketeer themselves, so after Intrada gave their new album master to them, Disney are perfectly legally entitled to release it for sale on the digital market place themselves, because they own all the rights.  And that's why it says copyright Disney and not copyright Intrada, because Intrada had nothing to do with it, other than being the ones who created the new program in the first place for a physical CD license they were granted.  But Disney owns the rights to sell the music, no matter which producer worked on it in the past.

[Roger 21]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

 

In most cases, the reason specialty label expansions happen is because one company owns the mechanical rights to release music from a score (let's say Warner Brothers Music Group for an example) and another company owns the remaining unreleased music that wasn't on the OST album (let's say Paramount Pictures as an example).  So in this example, if Warner Brothers Music wanted to make their own expansion happen, they'd need to license the remaining music from Paramount Pictures, and for whatever reason, that just doesn't happen.  Likewise, if Paramount Pictures wanted to release their own album of music from the score, they can't, because WMG owns the mechanical rights to it.  So what happens is these specialty labels (let's use La La Land Records as an example) come in as a sort of "middle man"; They license the mechanical rights from WMG, then unreleased music from Paramount, and La La Land Records is now the company releasing the new album, and everybody is happy (and makes money).

 

So the reason why none of these types of releases ever show up for digital is because the contracts that the specialty label, the mechanical rights holder, and the film studio sign for the release to happen only grant the release of a album on physical CD and/or physical vinyl.  Though the new hi-res master that the specialty label producer (let's say Mike Matessino as an example) creates gets sent back to the film studio, and that film studio can use it for remastering the film itself, or licensing music into other films or video games or something, they can't actually release the album for sale, even digitally, because WMG still owns the mechanical rights.  There would have to be a contract signed to allow LLL to release it digitally, but these contracts are very rare to happen, for whatever reason.

 

In the case of The Rocketeer, the music label that owns the mechanical label is Hollywood Records - which happens to be owned by Disney, the same film studio that released the film.  So while functionally, the process to create the expanded release might have been very similar to if the mechanical rights holder and film studio were completely separate entities, when it comes down to it, Disney owns all the rights to The Rocketeer themselves, so after Intrada gave their new album master to them, Disney are perfectly legally entitled to release it for sale on the digital market place themselves, because they own all the rights.  And that's why it says copyright Disney and not copyright Intrada, because Intrada had nothing to do with it, other than being the ones who created the new program in the first place for a physical CD license they were granted.  But Disney owns the rights to sell the music, no matter which producer worked on it in the past.

In spirit you're right but I think you're confusing two separate things -- one is the mechanical license which is in regards to the publishing of the actual compositions, the second is the master use license, which deals with the recording itself. One is sheet music for all intents and purposes and the other is tape.  So many of these albums involve two parties that have an interest in the recordings. In this case Hollywood records controls the master use rights to all the previously released tracks and Disney owns the master use rights to all previously unreleased. But as you point out, they are the same entity.  Regardless if the album was originally released by Hollywood or Sony, the mechanicals would still be controlled by a single entity. Those do not go with the master use license. 

[Jay 37,287]

Thanks for that informative update!

 

I admit I have not heard the term "master use rights" before (that I recall), but now I will know to use it instead!

 

Here is how Mike Matessino has defined mechanical rights in the past

 

Quote

When you create a track of audio for release you are "publishing" it. It's called a "mechanical" because you are putting it onto a "mechanism" (an outdated term as it was meant to imply making a tape, record, disc, etc.) So the entity controlling the publishing must be paid. The rate is generally fixed, so in the past there was nothing to stop a label from releasing two 30-minute suites and paying two mechanical royalties to the publisher and saving some serious money. Now it's tiered so that the rate is higher if a track is over 10 minutes. So that same hour of music will now be 6 or 7 tracks minimum and the publisher makes some money.

 

Conversely it means that it's possible to do 30 and 40 second tracks if it makes sense to do so, because the publishers, via the owner of the recordings, can grant the label a "mechanical cap," which means that a label pays for a maximum of "x" number of tracks even if their release exceeds that number.

 

So let's say to properly present a score we need 30 tracks, with some of them being very short... there might be a mechanical cap of 20 so that the label doesn't have to go broke on it, but those 30 tracks will then all be kept under 10 minutes so that the rate stays the same for all of them.

 

Aren't you glad you asked?

 

Mike M.

 

https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=123727&forumID=1&archive=0

[Roger 21]

18 minutes ago, Jay said:

Thanks for that informative update!

 

I admit I have not heard the term "master use rights" before (that I recall), but now I will know to use it instead!

 

Here is how Mike Matessino has defined mechanical rights in the past

 

 

https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=123727&forumID=1&archive=0

Right. The entity that controls the publishing as he refers to it is completely separate from studio or the record label. The big ones are Sony/ATV and Warner Chappell.

[1977 1,743]

Hey Roger, any news on Volunteers?

[Bespin 8,480]

The Rocketeer's expansion on Spotify?

 

Congrats really!!!

 

Now, can we have the Star Wars?

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

Sorry if I’m being lame for not being able to find the answer, but how many of the tracks were modified in the 2020 remaster of the full score? Or was it all of them? Or another way of asking it would be, how many tracks does the remaster improve?

[Amer 2,080]

12 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Sorry if I’m being lame for not being able to find the answer, but how many of the tracks were modified in the 2020 remaster of the full score? Or was it all of them? Or another way of asking it would be, how many tracks does the remaster improve?

Just the Filmscore program which also spills over on disc 2. The 2nd remaster issue is just a different mix mastering here which sort of conforms to the original OST album sound.

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

43 minutes ago, Amer said:

Just the Filmscore program which also spills over on disc 2. The 2nd remaster issue is just a different mix mastering here which sort of conforms to the original OST album sound.

Ah cool thanks. I didn’t repurchase the cd (which I think is out of print?) but an kinda tempted to get the download. If it helps bring the brass forward where it was previously rather recessed then sounds like it’s worth the investment. 

[Amer 2,080]

13 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Ah cool thanks. I didn’t repurchase the cd (which I think is out of print?) but an kinda tempted to get the download. If it helps bring the brass forward where it was previously rather recessed then sounds like it’s worth the investment. 

I just checked it out on Spotify and it does sound much better! My own copy is lying sealed up though. Heh. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Yeah, those plastic wrappings are notoriously hard to get off...

[WampaRat 1,105]

Was the music in this cartoon composed by Horner? He just wrote something along the lines of those old fashioned news reel music pieces?

Or is it an old piece of music from the time period? If it was Horner I’d imagine it would have been included in the expansion...

[Jay 37,287]

It's a piece of music called "Barrage" by Charles Williams.  Its listed in the end credits of the film

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102803/soundtrack

 

https://www.universalproductionmusic.com/en-gb/discover/albums/992/World-War-II-Drama

https://www.bbcproductionmusic.com/en-gb/discover/albums/992/world-war-ii-drama

https://www.nslibrary.nichion.co.jp/albums/4306-CHAP127

https://www.discogs.com/Various-World-War-II-Drama/release/13243355

[1977 1,743]

Billy Campbell on the score:

Quote

 

Was there a favorite scene for you in the making of the film?

Honestly, I can’t say that there is. I might as well start at the beginning of the film. I just love the amazing score, and the way the film starts with the hangar doors being pushed open, the silhouettes of the guys pushing the doors open. The plane coming out of it. 

 

 

https://www.slashfilm.com/the-rocketeer-interview/

[Edmilson 7,393]

I watched the movie recently and that's indeed a great opening, with an excellent Horner score.

[Jay 37,287]

Yea, the music fits the scene like a glove there

 

[Marc 758]

IMO one of the most beautiful love themes ever written for a movie 🙂

 

 

[Andy 4,087]

Yeah it’s really Horner-esque , but someone correct me if it’s not recycled or reused in another of his scores.