Bad film, brilliant score

[A24 4,326]

8 hours ago, Will said:

To each his own, I guess.

 

True. Every movie, no matter how bad people will say it is, has its fans. Even on this forum, there is bound to be at least one person that prefers the so-called worst movie ever made to the so-called best movie ever made. Somewhere in the world someone prefers Superman IV: The Quest For Peace over Superman: The Movie. I'm pretty sure there are members here that think Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin is way superior over Nolan's Batman trilogy. And so on, and so on. Indeed! To each his own!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Just now, Alexcremers said:

 

Somewhere in the world someone prefers Superman IV: The Quest For Peace over Superman: The Movie. I'm pretty sure there are members here that think Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin is way superior over Nolan's Batman trilogy. 

 

Drax and ET&Elliot?

[A24 4,326]

Well, now that you mention it, yes. They do seem to have a soft spot for things other people have spewed out.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Well we do hate Independence Day: Resurgence more than anything.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thats just a very mediocre film.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's a turd.

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

There really are so many cases of this... the prequels, the JNH/Shyamalan scores, at least half of Goldsmith's career, pretty much all of Christopher Young's career, Mansell's Doom, Goodman's Dunston Checks In, countless horror films.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Gotta catch 'em all.

[Melange 446]

2 hours ago, Richard said:

Most films which are commonly described as "bad", have, at least, some good points -

 

Star Trek V : The Final Frontier. Flawed in various ways, but still enjoyable. Great music.

Alexander : Flawed, but some very memorable scenes. Great Music.

1492 Conquest of Paradise : Flawed, but some very memorable scenes. Great Music.

[Jay 37,287]

15 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Just doing last 5 years because otherwise the list is endless. So 2011-2015

 

Jupiter Ascending
John Carter
Brave
Super 8

 

What?  Those films are totally fine!

[A24 4,326]

Again, to each his own!

[TownerFan 4,983]

9 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

 

True. Every movie, no matter how bad people will say it is, has its fans. Even on this forum, there is bound to be at least one person that prefers the so-called worst movie ever made to the so-called best movie ever made. Somewhere in the world someone prefers Superman IV: The Quest For Peace over Superman: The Movie. I'm pretty sure there are members here that think Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin is way superior over Nolan's Batman trilogy. And so on, and so on. Indeed! To each his own!

 

I tend to disagree a lot with this kind of thought up here, because it's really the triumph of a subjectivism that doesn't do any justice to proper real work of art or even just craftsmanship. Of course anyone is free to think that Transformers 4 is a great film and it's even better than Raiders of the Lost Ark, but in all honesty I think there are some fair objective and unbiased parameters we can all agree upon to evaluate if something is a good film or not. I don't want to open a can worms here, but really this is an example of personal taste's dictatorship that is plaguing a lot of current film criticism (and art in general) and a lot of it has to do with social networks, but I'm digressing. If anyone thinks Batman & Robin is a better film than The Dark Knight, well, good for him/her. It's pretty much evident that we cannot sustain a heatlhy argument about it.

 

I think the original poster's intention here was pretty much clear and while of course nobody should take these things too seriously, I think it's a pretty fair and objective statement to say Damnation Alley is a quite bad film and that Goldsmith's score is brilliant in a way the film itself could nor will ever be.

[Stempel 136]

 

[A24 4,326]

 

33 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

It's pretty much evident that we cannot sustain a heatlhy argument about it.

 

 

 

What is good to you may be rubbish to me, and vice versa.  We all have our own truths ... and that's all what matters.

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

5 minutes ago, Stempel said:

 

 

We have a winner!  One of the worst movies ever made with one of Elfman's greatest main themes.

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

 

[TownerFan 4,983]

5 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

What is good to you may be rubbish to me, and vice versa.  We all have our own truths ... and that's all what matters.

 

It's not a matter of finding any 'truth' (let that argument to religious zealots), just agreeing on some common aesthetic grounds when evaluating a film. Again, resorting to the dicatorship of personal taste is the easiest way of escaping any kind of healthy (or even just fun) aesthetic confrontation.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

8 hours ago, Melange said:

 

Star Trek V : The Final Frontier. Flawed in various ways, but still enjoyable. Great music.

Alexander : Flawed, but some very memorable scenes. Great Music.

1492 Conquest of Paradise : Flawed, but some very memorable scenes. Great Music.

 

 

Welcome to Melange's word of the day.

 

Today, the word is "flawed".

 

 

30 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

 

 

What is good to you may be rubbish to me, and vice versa.  We all have our own truths ... and that's all what matters.

 

 

 

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

[Will 2,215]

1 hour ago, TownerFan said:

 

I tend to disagree a lot with this kind of thought up here, because it's really the triumph of a subjectivism that doesn't do any justice to proper real work of art or even just craftsmanship. Of course anyone is free to think that Transformers 4 is a great film and it's even better than Raiders of the Lost Ark, but in all honesty I think there are some fair objective and unbiased parameters we can all agree upon to evaluate if something is a good film or not. 

 

Well, in theory, yes. But we'd never be able to agree on what those parameters should be! For instance, should a good film be complex or simple? I like a complex Star Wars story that may at first seem confusing. Others don't. Are the SW prequels good because they're complex or bad for the same reason?

 

58 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

It's not a matter of finding any 'truth' (let that argument to religious zealots), just agreeing on some common aesthetic grounds when evaluating a film. Again, resorting to the dicatorship of personal taste is the easiest way of escaping any kind of healthy (or even just fun) aesthetic confrontation.

 

Yes, we certainly should give legitimate reasons for liking or disliking a film, as I have done for the SW prequels in another thread. Rather than leaving it ambiguous and just saying it's your personal taste.

[A24 4,326]

1 hour ago, TownerFan said:

 

It's not a matter of finding any 'truth' ...

 

How does one shut down one's own thoughts and feelings? Isn't that how we respond to music and art?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

I don't know about anyone else, but I respond to art - especially music - emotionally. I know no other way. I cannot intellectualise my experience. I'd make a rubbish music critic. 

 

[A24 4,326]

It's the same with me, Richard. Does that mean we are brothers?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Me too! 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

Alex and Steef as brothers? What have I done to deserve this? 

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

1 hour ago, Richard said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I respond to art - especially music - emotionally. I know no other way. I cannot intellectualise my experience. I'd make a rubbish music critic. 

 

 

Well said!

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, Richard said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I respond to art - especially music - emotionally. I know no other way. I cannot intellectualise my experience. 

 

Of course you can. Nothing to do with 'responding' but using your brain cells to contextualize what you've heard and put in a post. It's internet's biggest lie that everything is subjective.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

What I mean is: music bypasses my brain, and goes straight to my heart. Of course I could describe music (or, at least, what I hear), but, honesty, what does "soaring strings" really mean? I read reviews of albums in the music columns, but it gives me only a "flavour" of the recording ( I once read Bill Bruford's drumming described as "kinetic"!) I envy people like you, Pub, who can transfer what they hear into words. I cannot. I try, within the confines of this site, but I know that I do not do justice to what I hear, and that makes me sad, as it sometimes prevents me from bringing some forms of music to a larger audience.

In these situations, I fall back on what Ellie Arroway says: " should have sent a poet".

 

[publicist 4,643]

'Soaring strings' is just empty flowery prose - the adjective 'haunting' was only invented for soundtrack reviewers - but it isn't really so hard to put a musical work into context. Which idiom(s) the composer uses, what are the main objectives in regard to the movie, how original is the work within the larger musical canon, form, orchestrational choices and so on.

 

The recent Williams'ses are a good example where the man writes high-caliber music which often betrays a certain fuzziness over minutiae details while neglecting any new or even interesting development of his musical vocabulary. A halfway decent review must point out this flaw without losing itself in rejoice over an especially sophisticated part for flute or trumpet but still acknowledging the high level of craft. This seems awfully hard to accomplish, obviously, and i still don't get how a well-written but certainly not spectacular work like TFA warranted lavish attention and praise (i know, it's SW) that raised my expectations before listening to it (in the movie) to heights that made the fall a rather hard one. 

 

On the whole, the best and insightful stuff here happens in throwaway posts with one or two lines.  

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm with Richard in that I don't really enjoy writing score reviews much, which is odd considering I do it every so often. I feel like it's directly related to my lack of knowledge of anything composition related. I could write a mean film or game essay, for instance, simply because I understand the craft far more.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

On 7/11/2016 at 7:14 PM, Disco Stu said:

 

I agree with you so strongly at the start and then disagree so strongly at the end. Both are fantastic Giacchino scores, but I love Super 8 the movie.

 

Super 8 was like Spielberg fanficiton. It had a really ridiculous story. Some of it was well done but basically a nothing movie for me.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

1 minute ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Super 8 was like Spielberg fanficiton. It had a really ridiculous story. Some of it was well done but basically a nothing movie for me.

 

There was more than a healthy dose of Stephen King in there too

 

I've watched it like 3 times and I just always respond to the characters and the visual style.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

10 hours ago, Stempel said:

 

 

The theme is a classic and the film is insufferable - one of the most horrid ugly looking films I have seen in some time. It didn't make my list as it was before my cut off date but absolutely this is one of the biggest differences in the quality of the movie and of the score.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Also 2 of times Desplat wrote semi-interesting themes, the movies themselves were not up to scratch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Star Trek V is incredibly underrated and over-bashed.

[A24 4,326]

4 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Super 8 was like Spielberg fanficiton. It had a really ridiculous story. Some of it was well done but basically a nothing movie for me.

 

 Maybe if I was 8 years old, I might have enjoyed it. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

I am eight years old, and I still didn't enjoy it.

[A24 4,326]

I didn't enjoy The Goonies either and I was much younger then. I guess I was born old. Now something tells me you still have that Goonies poster on the wall, Richard. Am I right?

[TownerFan 4,983]

15 hours ago, Richard said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I respond to art - especially music - emotionally. I know no other way. I cannot intellectualise my experience. I'd make a rubbish music critic. 

 

Oh, I'm a rubbish music critic too, no problem  

 

Point is that everyone reacts emotionally to artistic endeavours and music is the one that we react to emotionally for the most part. However, using tools of aesthetic evaluation doesn't mean we have to shut off pure emotional reaction. Quite the contrary, I think the two things are very much interrelated, so it's basically finding the reason WHY we end up liking or disliking something, without resorting to the usual plain subjective response.

 

13 hours ago, publicist said:

Of course you can. Nothing to do with 'responding' but using your brain cells to contextualize what you've heard and put in a post. It's internet's biggest lie that everything is subjective.

 

Exactly what I meant before. The problem is that we live in a culture now where the emphasis on subjective response has gone perhaps too far. Of course any evaluation of film, music, work of art in general, is entirely subjective and personal, but nowadays it seems we have lost any ability to agree on some solid aesthetic ground to help us evaluating things as objectively as possible. I think the IMDb "Top Films" ranking is a pretty good example of this, not because of the results per se, but because of the emphasis we give to these things. Of course it's the layman's tool, but nowadays even so-called major film critics and specialized film magazines/websites seem to have fall victim of this sort of ranking game.

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Question: Would you ever reocmmend a movie to someone who doesn't pay attention to film scores just because the score is amazing, even though the movie is bad?

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[Edmilson 7,392]

3 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Question: Would you ever reocmmend a movie to someone who doesn't pay attention to film scores just because the score is amazing, even though the movie is bad?

 

I once recommended The Crimes of Grindelwald to my brother, a movie that I hate, but I really like the score. Of course, my brother isn't a film music fan, so I recommend it just to see if the movie is as bad as I think, with the caveat that the music was the only good thing about it, or if it's just me.

 

He hasn't watched it until this day.

[Bellosh 3,385]

Lady in the Water

[HunterTech 987]

Spider-Man 3 is probably too easy of an answer on my end, but some of the others I'm thinking of (like Goldenthal Batman, Superman IV, and TMNTIII) likely won't stand out too much within film for the average person. Not to mention I don't consider it bad overall, so it wouldn't be an optimal answer.

I guess I can go for Superman Returns, since its reputation has only gotten worse overtime, but the music likely is its strongest point. 

[Jay 37,287]

On 3/15/2020 at 7:10 AM, bollemanneke said:

Question: Would you ever reocmmend a movie to someone who doesn't pay attention to film scores just because the score is amazing, even though the movie is bad?

 

No.