Alexandre Desplat's Star Wars: Rogue One score

[Pieter Boelen 740]

What I can definitely say for Giacchino is that if he's attached to a film I might care about, then I am glad that at least a capable composer has been chosen.

This as opposed to certain other composers where, as soon as I hear they're attached to a film, my interest drops down several notches at the very least.

That applies mainly to Hans Zimmer and Co. So long story short: John Williams > Michael Giacchino > Remote Control

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hans Zimmer is better then Gia

[Pieter Boelen 740]

6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Hans Zimmer is better then Gia

Maybe. Perhaps. But I don't like his music so much anymore, especially his more modern output.

Every time if I see Zimmer's name attached to a film, I roll my eyes and I think "oh bother, that again"?

At least Giacchino tends to write music that I enjoy listening to.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

52 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Hans Zimmer is better then Gia

 

Indeed!

[publicist 4,643]

Zimmer is, in film music, actually one of a dying breed, namely an original musician who carved out his own distinctive niche (i hesitate to call him composer) whereas Giacchino just continues where Debney, Arnold, early JNH, McNeely left off, namely in providing Goldsmith/Williams/Horner soundalikes - he's just the composer equivalent of a film music fan grown up in the 80's.

 

It could be worse, probably, but it is and always will be second-hand imitation. We much more should welcome and applaud young musicians/composers who do not get by with stirring memories through using a big orchestral apparatus (for most, that seems the highest benchmark imaginable, a 100-piece orchestra and a huge choir).

 

In film, there are few left (now that even Thomas Newman has settled into comfortable old age; Goldenthal...ah, the memories). In video games probably some more (Wintory and McCreary come to mind). But with education in all areas going downhill and money being tight for anything of cultural significance i'd even settle for a talented melodist with a good orchestrator. 

 

 

[crocodile 8,003]

Seems like Desplat is still the strongest voice out there, no matter how you slice it.

 

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

He's a good, experienced composer but also not necessarily best-suited to certain idioms. SW is not world peace so what does it matter in the end, but i never felt Alexandre's strong suit was emulating Williams in operatic neo-romantic mode.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Pub you make this point several times today and it's a worthy one. That the Mahlerian orchestra is the default setting for some composers.  Imagine what we would have had from Williams over the years if he'd been inclined to work with more adventurous ensembles.  Giacchino has been more flexible but always returns to symphonic settings and that's frankly when he is weakest.  

 

Zimmer trumps both of them in this regard, he trumps most other film composers.  He's one of the few who seems to start from a genuinely blank slate when thinking about the palette for a score. 

 

Desplat does this too, fortunately.  

[crocodile 8,003]

I think he's writing his least distinctive music when working on the big budget films. That is true.

 

Having said that,  I am sort of curious how he's going to tackle this particular one. You know, Star Wars was what made him want to do this job in the first place. Plus, he's not working with David Yates' temp this time (hopefully!). It could be at least interesting.

 

And yes, I do agree that dismissing Zimmer as being "incapable" is a bit strange, given that he's been setting film music trends for the past 20+ years. Even if you hate his music, it's hard not to be impressed with his longevity.

 

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I struggle to think of a film composer with a more consistently diverse output.  It's fantastic.  

[publicist 4,643]

While the underscore proper in Zimmer's 'big' scores often annoys me - it's sometimes depressingly simple and clumsy - his core ideas are invariably strong. And of course the blank slate is true but also Zimmer seems to know where his natural habitat lies. A 30-year old composer writing for a 100-piece orchestra just because results in Brian Tyler et al.-scores that utilize 8 horns and 60 string players for nothing (James Horner was, next to Goldenthal, probably the last natural talent for translating a huge orchestra into modern orchestral film music and even Horner was always a keen innovator).

 

I'm sure Desplat will do fine but if i had to choose one composer who has enough old Hollywood swagger and is still remarkably fresh in his approach i would be JNH. He scores too many movies that require non-descript scores but when he's on, he's on. His scores often need some more time to sink in (cf the recent Snow White sequel).

[Pieter Boelen 740]

With "capable" in this case, I mean "capable of writing music that I'd actually like to listen to". Zimmer used to be, but his music is no longer to my taste.

I still like some of his older stuff, but I have zero interest in any of his newer music.

He might have originally been more original than Giacchino. But "being original" doesn't necessarily mean "good".

 

With Giacchino, you're generally guaranteed to get music that is fitting for the film.

Zimmer is a bit of a loose cannon there; it could be really very good, or absolutely terrible.

I'll never forgive him for the electric guitar in PotC: Dead Man's Chest. That was as atrocious as it comes.

I understand the reasoning behind it and I understand he wanted to experiment. But that experiment failed miserably.

 

The good of Zimmer is that he experiments and sometimes succeeds in creating something unexpected and new that also happens to work well.

The bad is that he sometimes fails and creates something that is still unexpected and new, but does not work well at all.

 

17 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

I struggle to think of a film composer with a more consistently diverse output.  It's fantastic.  

"Consistently diverse"? Yes, sure. But also "consistently good"...?

[publicist 4,643]

2 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

With Giacchino, you're generally guaranteed to get music that is fitting for the film.

 

What has that got to do with being good music? 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

JNH is a heavyweight, absolutely. I'm often taken by surprise when something of his that I don't know comes on (Maleficent being a recent example) and I grasp for names of who could be doing this sort of thing today.  Powell has this effect on me too.  

[crocodile 8,003]

3 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

With Giacchino, you're generally guaranteed to get music that is fitting for the film.

Zimmer is a bit of a loose cannon there; it could be really very good, or absolutely terrible.

Oh I agree with that. Zimmer is extremely self-indulgent sometimes. And that can often work against films he's working on. His ego, unfortunately, seems to be often too big for any canvas.

 

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

Powell, like JNH, developed mightily. I am not sure if he wanted to do this, though.

[crocodile 8,003]

I would love to hear John Powell's Star Wars score.

 

And Elfman's too. I know, I've said it before.

 

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Elfman has lost me in recent years.  Not that I ever was very into his thing in the first place.  Maybe I haven't given it enough time.  I do like that album of concert music Mauceri conducted. 

[crocodile 8,003]

I think you should re-explore some of his more recent stuff. There's probably more than meets to eye to his composition these days. I think he's constantly learning. Inconsistently perhaps, but still. Make sure you listen to Rabbit & Rogue ballet album that just came out.

 

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

The basic problem is that the world is waiting for a new JW score in a very specific idiom and that's the worst mandate for a composer who does his own thing. Williams himself has done new-ish things in the prequels and got away with it (updating the idiom with minimalism and harsher tonalities) so a new approach should be fair game but i guess it will be a very fine line watched with argus eyes.

 

Being not very indebted to SW i would happily part the more old-fashioned themes of the 70's for something along the lines of 'Battle of the Heroes' or stuff like that. That's why i always loved Goldsmith, even on mediocre crap like 'Poltergeist 2' you almost forget it's a sequel score because it's so different in tone and style.

[crocodile 8,003]

It's a shame in a way cause Lucas originally envisioned the universe as ever-developing thing for different artists to express themeselves and doing their own thing.

 

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

Until he got 5 billion $ out of it.

[Jay 37,351]

1 minute ago, crocodile said:

It's a shame in a way cause Lucas originally envisioned the universe as ever-developing thing for different artists to express themeselves and doing their own thing.

 

Karol

 

 

Yea, but when Empire didn't make as much money as SW did, he did a 180 and made ROTJ be a big retread of ANH in a lot of ways, and took more creative control of the film than he did on TESB

[crocodile 8,003]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

 

 

Yea, but when Empire didn't make as much money as SW did, he did a 180 and made ROTJ be a big retread of ANH in a lot of ways, and took more creative control of the film than he did on TESB

Yeah... he had ranch to build... and divorce fees to pay...

 

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

The ironic fate of the control freak who wants to do everything his way and becomes enslaved by his way more than ever before. But then, it were at least his shoddy ideas not those of some crappy target audience or a dozen Di$ney execs.

[crocodile 8,003]

Yeah, prequels were essentially indie films with an auteur in charge. No question about that.

 

And, funnily enough, it isn't even a sarcastic observation.

 

Karol

[Pieter Boelen 740]

15 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

What has that got to do with being good music? 

It means that at least it does its job, which is the very least it should do.

Giacchino generally gets at least that right. Zimmer does not. Not always.

 

It is all personal preference though, isn't it? In general, I prefer old-fashioned orchestral music over more modern sensibilities (with exceptions, of course).

And I don't mind at all if composers take inspiration from Williams and then write something similar that is also enjoyable in its own right.

I prefer that over a "unique voice" that isn't very aurally pleasing to me.

 

Is Giacchino as good as Williams? Probably not. I don't think he has written anything on the level of Cutthroat Island or Independence Day yet.

But he does generally write music that I quite like listening to. Which is good enough for me.

[mstrox 6,651]

Can somebody wake me when people actually start talking about "Alexander Desplat's Star Wars: Rogue One Score" so that I don't keep getting excited when this thread is bumped?

[publicist 4,643]

1 minute ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

It means that at least it does its job, which is the very least it should do.

 

I get that but it's a strangely dispassionate ode to music you like. It does its job, probably. But the expectations of modern audiences are not high to begin with, so what does that tell us about Giacchino music?

 

More to the point, why shouldn't every new score be a fuckin' masterpiece? One can dream, right. 

2 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Can somebody wake me when people actually start talking about "Alexander Desplat's Star Wars: Rogue One Score" so that I don't keep getting excited when this thread is bumped?

 

Set you alarm for Dec. and you're game.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Now I'm wondering.... did I suddenly find myself in an alternate universe?

Here I am at JWFan.com and I find Giacchino being bashed for writing perfectly enjoyable music that fits their films quite fine.

 

The only thing that may be "wrong" with his music is that it isn't quite as good as Williams' work.

Which is not much of a surprise, considering how much of a huge standard that is to attain!

 

Yet on the other hand, Hans Zimmer is being praised despite writing music

that often enough these days is neither enjoyable and nor does it actually fit the movie very well.

 

I will not claim that Giacchino is one my favourite composers.

There are several others that I prefer (listing only living composers), such as John Williams, John Debney, Alan Silvestri and James Newton Howard.

But he's certainly a good composer in his own right and has written quite a lot of music that I like as well.

Nothing wrong with that.

[crocodile 8,003]

Well, it's not a MGFan.

 

Karol

[Pieter Boelen 740]

4 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Well, it's not a MGFan.

Actually, it WAS! For one single 1st of April a few years back.

Anyway, it is also not "MGBash", is it?

 

Now I'm curious.... since I am clearly in an alternate universe where JWFan likes Hans Zimmer, but not Michael Giacchino....

what composers are OK to like here? And which ones should I claim to despise to ensure I voice "the popular opinion"?

[crocodile 8,003]

There are no popular opinions here, I hope. We all like different stuff. I like Giacchino except for (you need to go back to that long post of mine)...

 

Karol

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

On 7/13/2016 at 8:52 PM, Stefancos said:

Do you have pubes yet? ?

 

Speaking of emotional maturity...

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Except for Tyler Bates.  Nobody likes Tyler Bates.

 

I kid, I kid....a bit.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

40 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Now I'm wondering.... did I suddenly find myself in an alternate universe?

Here I am at JWFan.com and I find Giacchino being bashed for writing perfectly enjoyable music that fits their films quite fine.

 

The only thing that may be "wrong" with his music is that it isn't quite as good as Williams' work.

Which is not much of a surprise, considering how much of a huge standard that is to attain!

 

Yet on the other hand, Hans Zimmer is being praised despite writing music

that often enough these days is neither enjoyable and nor does it actually fit the movie very well.

 

I will not claim that Giacchino is one my favourite composers.

There are several others that I prefer (listing only living composers), such as John Williams, John Debney, Alan Silvestri and James Newton Howard.

But he's certainly a good composer in his own right and has written quite a lot of music that I like as well.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

30 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Actually, it WAS! For one single 1st of April a few years back.

Anyway, it is also not "MGBash", is it?

 

Now I'm curious.... since I am clearly in an alternate universe where JWFan likes Hans Zimmer, but not Michael Giacchino....

what composers are OK to like here? And which ones should I claim to despise to ensure I voice "the popular opinion"?

 

This doesn't sound like an alternate universe to me.  It sounds like classic mid-2000s JWFan where appreciation for Zimmer along with Williams is met with astonishment and nervous murmuring... at kindest.

 

All we're doing is sharing opinions.  Now what you've started to do is take it personally and lash out in the way you imagined was happening to you.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

This board has always been divisive on Giacchino. Mark O (kinda) left over it....

[Pieter Boelen 740]

49 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

Now what you've started to do is take it personally and lash out in the way you imagined was happening to you.

Nothing personal here.

Just trying to understand what's going on, since this debate seems.... rather hilarious, really.

 

 

Anyway.... let me see if I can't put some oil on the fire then....

 

Statement: "While I do put Giacchino above Zimmer in terms of how much I enjoy his music, the same does NOT apply to Desplat."

One could say that: John Williams > Michael Giacchino > Hans Zimmer > Alexandre Desplat

 

How's THAT for controversy?

 

 

In truth though, I'm not sure yet on Zimmer vs. Desplat. So far I haven't heard a lot from Desplat that I truly like very much.
"Main Title" and "Battle With the Tartars" from The Golden Compass are pretty darn good, especially the theme for that witch character.
And what I've heard from "Rise of the Guardians" certainly has an incredible sound to it, even if I cannot quite remember it now.

On the other hand, his Harry Potter scores had huge potential and did not quite live up to it. But then.... neither did those films.
So it might be the director to blame there and not Desplat.

And if I'm really truthful, probably I do put Desplat above Zimmer these days.
At least the prospect of a Desplat score for a film I care about (in this case, Star Wars: Rogue One) does not actually put me off from the film.
But if Zimmer had been announced instead, my interest in the film would definitely take a hit.

[JacksonElmore 69]

3 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

Speaking of emotional maturity...

Heeyooooooo!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

6 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Nothing personal here.

Just trying to understand what's going on, since this debate seems.... rather hilarious, really.

  Reveal hidden contents

In truth though, I'm not sure yet on Zimmer vs. Desplat. So far I haven't heard a lot from Desplat that I truly like very much.
"Main Title" and "Battle With the Tartars" from The Golden Compass are pretty darn good, especially the theme for that witch character.
And what I've heard from "Rise of the Guardians" certainly has an incredible sound to it, even if I cannot quite remember it now.

On the other hand, his Harry Potter scores had huge potential and did not quite live up to it. But then.... neither did those films.
So it might be the director to blame there and not Desplat.

And if I'm really truthful, probably I do put Desplat above Zimmer these days.
At least the prospect of a Desplat score for a film I care about (in this case, Star Wars: Rogue One) does not actually put me off from the film.
But if Zimmer had been announced instead, my interest in the film would definitely take a hit.

 

I wasn't aware there was a debate at all.  People are saying what they feel.  Where's the debate?  There's no bashing either, what a defensive word to use.  Can't one critique without being branded a basher or hater?  Ye gods.

[Alex 2,835]

I tend to prefer Giacchino when he's in animation mode (The Incredibles, Inside Out, Ratatouille etc), however I'd argue that Desplat's The Secret Life of Pets is better than anything Giacchino has ever done in that genre. Controversial, but that's just my opinion!

[crocodile 8,003]

Technically, it certainly is.

 

Karol

[leeallen01 2,136]

The Zimmer over-praise and the Giacchino bashing does confuse me as well. Zimmer seems to do 1 decent score every few years, yet Giacchino had a year of Tomorrowland, Jupiter Ascending, Jurassic World and Inside Out and still he is met with a cold reaction whenever mentioned. I sometimes do think I'm going slightly mental that when I discuss Giacchino on one of his threads, like the recent Star Trek Beyond thread, I am met with a few people who say, "doesn't matter, Giacchino is no Williams." "Giacchino is no Goldsmith." Why is any of that relevant? When Williams was in his first decade of composing, I'm sure some people said "Williams is no Korngold. Just an imitator." Comparing composers is fun (I guess) but this whole "Giacchino will NEVER be as good as Williams!" has to stop, because Giacchino is working amongst the most crowded era of film music, Williams did not. And Williams was told to imitate the greats with Star Wars, to create a sound that hadn't been popular for decades, which he brought back, while Giacchino is active in a time where 99% of styles, genres, ideas, etc have all been done to death, and to poke your head from amongst the crowd is infinitely more difficult than in the past. Giacchino is no Williams, because he's Michael Giacchino. I have learnt my lesson of when I used to say that he is the new Williams, because he really isn't. He is the first Michael Giacchino, and I find it insane and partly frustrating that whenever I mention his name (even in one of his own threads) I then have to prepare myself to defend him. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Zimmer occasionally knocks it out of the park. Gia has NEVER done so.

 

The end!

[leeallen01 2,136]

3 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Zimmer occasionally knocks it out of the park. Gia has NEVER done so.

 

The end!

 

That is, of course, your opinion and not fact.

 

UP, Jupiter Ascending, Super 8, are all scores that 'knocked it out of the park' in my opinion. Same as POTC 3 for Zimmer knocked it out of the park for me. Again why are we comparing the two?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

My opinion is the one that matters most to

me. I'm sure thats the case with you as well.

 

 

[Alex 2,835]

I would say that Giacchino is far more consistent but Zimmer's best is superior. I think that's a fair comment.

[Romão 2,274]

Giacchino never reaches Zimmer's lows, but he never reaches his highs either. There are far more interesting Zimmer scores than Giacchino's

[crumbs 14,306]

They're totally different composers though, so I don't really understand the comparisons. I think both composers have had knock-out scores that replay heavily on my iPod, so that's what matters to me.

[JacksonElmore 69]

7 hours ago, alextrombone94 said:

I tend to prefer Giacchino when he's in animation mode (The Incredibles, Inside Out, Ratatouille etc), 

Did you like zootopia